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Tuning story

EightySix Four

Diamond Member
So I've been working on cleaning up my tune for a while on my car with HPTuners software. I'm running 22+ psi from the turbo and have plenty of fuel and such. I have new parts to install in the motor (rods and pistons) but I'm leaving for China soon and that is second on my list. I've been running into a problem while tuning though. I've been getting knock (ping/detonation) while on the throttle.

My initial fix was to work on dialing in the MAF. By making the MAF as accurate as possible, the computer would know how much fuel to use without having to compensate after the fact based on the wideband O2 sensor. (narrowband O2 sensors can only tell if the car is running stoich or not, wideband can give you the exact AFRs). With some help from Shabby, my MAF was narrowed in with .5% throughout the whole rev range but I still had knock.

I knew the car could handle what I was asking of it, others are running more timing and boost on 93 octane and it had become very frustrating. So I continued to look through the my logs in hopes of something jumping out at me.

As I was browsing through old log files, I noticed a distinct time period when the KR became worse, and after looking closer I noticed that after that time my IAT's didn't seem to be in line with the ambient temperature, and often my IAT2s (temperature after the intercooler) were hotter than the IATs (pre-intercooler). I decided to put the car up on the lift and see if there was something blocking airflow to my intercooler or if it was damaged somehow.

This is what my intercooler looked like (stock below for reference):

IMG_0598small.jpg


That isn't my picture, I stole it from another forum where people have had similar problems. There was a bad batch of intercoolers from the factory and certain Kappa cars have bulging/ballooning under even normal boost. The 22psi I had been running apparently accelerated the process and mine was even larger/worse than that picture. Had the IC replaced under warranty (there is a service bulletin) and then ordered an aftermarket one to replace it with.

Moral of the story: Cars are still hardware, look there first 😛
 
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Yikes.

Man I thought the stock WRX TMIC was small, that thing is tinyyyy......

Glad they took care of you though, since there was a tsb guess they couldn't try to screw you.
 
Cripes. Wtf did GM make the intercoolers out of? Never seen one do that before. How much pressure are these things under?
 
Cripes. Wtf did GM make the intercoolers out of? Never seen one do that before. How much pressure are these things under?

Well, this batch of intercoolers were improperly welded is my understanding. The boost spikes to around 23psi then tapers to 18-19 by redline.
 
I'm not too familiar with turbos. Is it the air that gets circulated through the intercooler? I though the intercoolers had oil circulated through them that cooled the turbo. If that's right, is the oil at the same pressure the turbo is operating at? 23 psi doesn't seem high enough to expand aluminum tubing that much unless it's pretty thin stuff.
 
I'm not too familiar with turbos. Is it the air that gets circulated through the intercooler? I though the intercoolers had oil circulated through them that cooled the turbo. If that's right, is the oil at the same pressure the turbo is operating at? 23 psi doesn't seem high enough to expand aluminum tubing that much unless it's pretty thin stuff.

This is a front mount air-to-air intercooler. That means that this sits at the very front of the car and air passes through it, cooling the air coming off the turbo. It usually can get air within a few degrees of ambient, but rarely any lower than that. It doesn't actually cool the turbo itself, but the air that was compressed by the turbo.

The weakness is exaggerated by the heat cycling I think.
 
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This is a front mount air-to-air intercooler. That means that this sits at the very front of the car and air passes through it, cooling the air coming off the turbo. It usually can get air within a few degrees of ambient, but rarely any lower than that. It doesn't actually cool the turbo itself, but the air that was compressed by the turbo.

The weakness is exaggerated by the heat cycling I think.

Ahhh ok, I got you. Having the air temp cooler produces more power than the extra work required to pump air through the intercooler then? Interesting. Never knew about that. I always thought the intercooler was cooling oil circulated through the turbo. They do have oil in them right? I remember hearing somebody talking about getting the turbo on their Volvo serviced required replacing the oil in it.
 
Ahhh ok, I got you. Having the air temp cooler produces more power than the extra work required to pump air through the intercooler then? Interesting. Never knew about that. I always thought the intercooler was cooling oil circulated through the turbo. They do have oil in them right? I remember hearing somebody talking about getting the turbo on their Volvo serviced required replacing the oil in it.

The turbo themselves are often oil cooled, most factory ones pump oil from the same oil pan as the rest of the motor through the turbo to keep the bearings cool and slick.

My motor has 6 quarts (I think it was 6) of oil in, but when I drain it only 5.5 quarts come out due to the .5 quart sitting inside the turbo. I've had to bitch at plenty of service guys for not knowing this and over filling my motor. They think when it drains 5.5 it's just burning .5 quarts off.
 
I thought most factory-turbo cars were being cooled by the main cooling system of the vehicle with the advantage of eliminating the possibility of "coking" the oil? Definitely could be wrong though.
 
Yikes.

Man I thought the stock WRX TMIC was small, that thing is tinyyyy......

Glad they took care of you though, since there was a tsb guess they couldn't try to screw you.

The WRX one is tiny. It's super thin just longer. You can tell his is thicker. My stock one is about that size but very thick so it works well.
 
Ahhh ok, I got you. Having the air temp cooler produces more power than the extra work required to pump air through the intercooler then? Interesting. Never knew about that. I always thought the intercooler was cooling oil circulated through the turbo. They do have oil in them right? I remember hearing somebody talking about getting the turbo on their Volvo serviced required replacing the oil in it.
If pushing the air through the intercooler reduced overall power, I think that the turbine wouldn't need a wastegate.
 
I thought most factory-turbo cars were being cooled by the main cooling system of the vehicle with the advantage of eliminating the possibility of "coking" the oil? Definitely could be wrong though.

Mine is cooled both with oil and coolant.

I would be a bit surprised if an air to air front mount intercooler could get intake temps down within a few degrees of ambient - that's typically air to water territory (liquid cooled intercooler). Then again I'm used to crappy side mount intercoolers with terrible airflow.. 😛
 
If pushing the air through the intercooler reduced overall power, I think that the turbine wouldn't need a wastegate.

Eh?

Pushing air through the inter-cooler does cause a pressure drop, but it's made up for by the fact that you're not putting 200* air into the motor.
 
Er, read his post again.

Yeah, but you saying there would not be need for a wastegate made no sense to me. How would an overall decrease in efficiency created by an intercooler cause it to not need to remove excess air?

Mine is cooled both with oil and coolant.

I would be a bit surprised if an air to air front mount intercooler could get intake temps down within a few degrees of ambient - that's typically air to water territory (liquid cooled intercooler). Then again I'm used to crappy side mount intercoolers with terrible airflow.. 😛

At speed mine can get within 5-10 degrees on a nice day, but as I slow back down from speed the efficiency obviously goes way down. If it's hot outside it can't get close though. I'm piecing together a meth kit to go on when I get back as well. Will run a 50/50 meth water mix activated at 10psi and at full pressure by 18psi.
 
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