TSA Creator: TSA failed to detect any threat, disband

[trenchfoot]

You realize that most airport security was private before 9/11 right? The entire TSA is bad joke. 90% of the what they do is completely pointless and ineffective. Even if it was effective devoting that amount of resources to protecting airplanes is stupid. There are a million soft targets out there that could be hit much easier than an airplane. The goal should just be to prevent 9/11 style hijackings in which airplanes can be turned into weapons.

Well, if I recall correctly, the gov't took over from the private sector for providing airport/aircraft security under the Bush Administration as part of the umbrella Dept. of Homeland Security that Bush wanted to and did create.

One of the main reasons tossed out for the gov't taking over from the private sector was the cost and liability concerns that the airlines and municipal gov'ts weren't willing to live with because of the highly increased threat levels seen at the time and the great amount of resources required to meet that increased threat. The big monied private sector, through its lobbyists, were pushing hard for the gov't to take on these greatly added costs and liability concerns of which the Bush Admin. was very cozy with and amenable to.

It didn't help things that under the secretive Bush admin., paranoid micromanagement was the modus operandi for them and Cheney was the driving force behind it all. So it was quite easy for the Bush admin. to go along with "the plan" to dump the cost of increasing security on the transportation industry over to the taxpayers.

There are logical reasons to have the gov't run the nation's airport security functions, but that's a different story from how they're actually being run, of which I have to agree with you in some ways.

But I'm not trying to argue the point that the gov't will always do a better job of providing security at all of the nation's airports so much as I'm making the point that the private sector is either unwilling or unable to make a coordinated effort toward securing all of the nation's airports that includes working closely with the governments intelligence agencies and other gov't agencies and all of the added layers of bureaucracy and resultant costs that go with that.

 

[woolfe9999]

actually a quick google search shows you can waive your right to sue.

In general, yes. Not if a statute says otherwise. Bober is correct on that point.

My problem with his idea is that it would result in higher ticket prices as the airlines would have to pick up the tab. It saves taxpayer money, so I guess it works for you if you are a taxpayer who doesn't travel by air very much.

Another nagging problem is that a lawsuit for your family is small consolation if you're dead. Airlines could easily decide that the risk of a terrorist attack on a given flight is so small that the marginal risk of lawsuit is less costly than the security. The same way that an auto manufacturer may decide it's cheaper to pay out settlements than to fix a dangerous mechanical problem. I somehow doubt the economics of it really favors spending all that much on security.

- wolf

 

[JSt0rm]

well if bober is now writing legislation then go ahead and put 1 million in for me.

 

[halik]

Wow I can't believe people are putting forth the idea that a private company will be less efficient and more expensive. I would think empirical reality from things like fedex vs ups vs usps would be enough to prove otherwise.

 

[xj0hnx]

You realize that most airport security was private before 9/11 right? The entire TSA is bad joke. 90% of the what they do is completely pointless and ineffective. Even if it was effective devoting that amount of resources to protecting airplanes is stupid. There are a million soft targets out there that could be hit much easier than an airplane. The goal should just be to prevent 9/11 style hijackings in which airplanes can be turned into weapons.

I really don't understand it, there's football games, malls, schools, mass transit stations, sooooo many easy peasy lemon squeezy targets, and they spend millions ineffectually guarding planes, and we have morons that think it's a good idea, and worth the cost. This country is hopeless.

 

[JSt0rm]

I really don't understand it, there's football games, malls, schools, mass transit stations, sooooo many easy peasy lemon squeezy targets, and they spend millions ineffectually guarding planes, and we have morons that think it's a good idea, and worth the cost. This country is hopeless.

So you want to expand tsa to guard every mall in america? lmao. I think the point of the tsa is to make sure no one ever turns a aircraft into a giant missile again. Everything else is just fluff.

 

[xj0hnx]

the creative use of a reinforced door and a friggen deadbolt.

lol :thumbsup:

 

[xj0hnx]

So you want to expand tsa to guard every mall in america? lmao. I think the point of the tsa is to make sure no one ever turns a aircraft into a giant missile again. Everything else is just fluff.

No dummy, TSA is pointless and doesn't protect anything. My point is, as demonstrated by your posting, that this country thinks in 2D, reality is 3D+

 

[JSt0rm]

No dummy, TSA is pointless and doesn't protect anything. My point is, as demonstrated by your posting, that this country thinks in 2D, reality is 3D+

lmao. what the hell are you on about 3d+? Is this a new tv line?

Most village idiots look around themselves at all the complexity and assume everything around them is dumb.

To say the tsa is pointless and doesnt protect anything is false. They protect the airports and airplanes. You, in your limited knowledge, dont like how they do that (and there is some merit to this) but that doesn't mean they don't do something.

 

[JSt0rm]

and these are the problems we run into time and time again on these forums. EVERYONE is an expert on everything. So the make sweeping comments about yadda yup or dooky doo. Everything is easy peasy lemon squeezes in their eyes and in their minds.

That is ignorance at its finest. You see I spend 17 hours a day thinking about or doing what it is I excel at. I would hope there are others out there who do the same in unrelated fields. But not here oh no. Everyone knows all this dumb shit and all the experts are wrong always and we can always just do it like this cuz everyone in this country is stupid.

Well I only see stupid people in here assuming they know some shit when in reality they haven't a clue what the fuck they are talking about.

 

[woolfe9999]

I don't know much about the particulars of the TSA, whether it needs reform, or what. But I will say this. Skimping on homeland security to save tax revenue is penny wise and pound foolish. A successful terrorist attack costs far more than lives immediately lost. 9/11 ended up costing us a couple trillion and thousands of additional American lives. Any succcessful large scale attack will, to a certainty, result in some military adventure(s), whether it is the right thing to do or not. I for don't want any more excuses for the kinds of neo-con foolishness we saw after 9/11. Better to prevent the attacks from happening in the first place. If we need to do a better job in some area, then we need to do a better job. But those who are on a rampage about cutting out everything that government is doing are one day going to get their wish to the detriment of all.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I wouldn't say they don't do ANYTHING.

The fact is if you put yourselves in the shoes of a terrorist wanting to do something at an airport with a plane, it's getting harder and harder. These measures aren't going to truly prevent a determined foe, but if you were trying to smuggle something on board, there's more risk of getting patted down, millimeter wave scanned, etc. It's a scarier process. It's more of a deterrent than anything else. People become more afraid to try things.

I'm not saying the TSA is 100% correct and we need to keep the reactive security measures, but it IS doing something.

BTW, I think the liquids ban is still the most ridiculous thing. I'm not going out to Target and fishing out the $1 aisle every trip. As a result sometimes my friends laugh at me when I go to Vegas and I check in a small bag, but recently more and more of my friends just follow along. We're too lazy to go buy travel sized shit and worry about a quart sized bag. I'll gladly wait an extra 5 minutes especially when Southwest has free checkins and I'm already juggling my laptop at security. This way I can carry my camera bag + laptop bag onto the plane too.

 

[xj0hnx]

lmao. what the hell are you on about 3d+? Is this a new tv line?

Most village idiots look around themselves at all the complexity and assume everything around them is dumb.

To say the tsa is pointless and doesnt protect anything is false. They protect the airports and airplanes. You, in your limited knowledge, dont like how they do that (and there is some merit to this) but that doesn't mean they don't do something.

You are a fine example of the village idiot you speak of. A little sheep that's happy his master is stead fast watching over him. If you can't understand why spending billions to "protect" airports, while leaving endless soft targets available for the picking is retard, well, there's really no helping you.

 

[drebo]

To say the tsa is pointless and doesnt protect anything is false. They protect the airports and airplanes. You, in your limited knowledge, dont like how they do that (and there is some merit to this) but that doesn't mean they don't do something.

Er...they don't, really.

There are private terminals at every runway and passengers and planes are never searched at these terminals.

You could learn how to fly a Cesna, rent one, load it up with 500lbs of high explosive, and then fly it 5 minutes from JFK to Yankee Stadium and crash it during a game. BAM. 50k people dead, and you don't even have to file a flightplan with the FCC.

Tell me, how is that an effective deterent?

As I've stated 100s of times, the goal of terrorists is not death count. It's TERROR...it's to change our way of life. And at that, we have let them succeed past their wildest hopes.

 

[JSt0rm]

Er...they don't, really.

There are private terminals at every runway and passengers and planes are never searched at these terminals.

You could learn how to fly a Cesna, rent one, load it up with 500lbs of high explosive, and then fly it 5 minutes from JFK to Yankee Stadium and crash it during a game. BAM. 50k people dead, and you don't even have to file a flightplan with the FCC.

Tell me, how is that an effective deterent?

As I've stated 100s of times, the goal of terrorists is not death count. It's TERROR...it's to change our way of life. And at that, we have let them succeed past their wildest hopes.

Really? would 500lbs of explosive on a cesna kill 50k people? I find that hard to believe but I'm not a expert on explosives so I guess I will defer to you, an expert on explosives.

 

[xBiffx]

Really? would 500lbs of explosive on a cesna kill 50k people? I find that hard to believe but I'm not a expert on explosives so I guess I will defer to you, an expert on explosives.

I think you failed to grasp the point of his post.

As I've stated 100s of times, the goal of terrorists is not death count. It's TERROR...it's to change our way of life. And at that, we have let them succeed past their wildest hopes.

+1

 

[xj0hnx]

Really? would 500lbs of explosive on a cesna kill 50k people? I find that hard to believe but I'm not a expert on explosives so I guess I will defer to you, an expert on explosives.

No, it wouldn't, not alone, but you could easily outfit the plane and explosives to deliver a LOT more damage than either alone could do. And yes, I did demolition in the military for a few years. As biff pointed out, you missed the point ..entirely, not surprising though, you're not too bright.

 

[BoberFett]

That is ignorance at its finest. You see I spend 17 hours a day thinking about or doing what it is I excel at. I would hope there are others out there who do the same in unrelated fields. But not here oh no. Everyone knows all this dumb shit and all the experts are wrong always and we can always just do it like this cuz everyone in this country is stupid.

And in the OP, one of the people responsible for the TSA, meaning someone who actually gets paid to think about it, said it's ineffectual and you're telling him he's wrong.

Could you get any dumber?

 

[McWatt]

No, it wouldn't, not alone, but you could easily outfit the plane and explosives to deliver a LOT more damage than either alone could do. And yes, I did demolition in the military for a few years. As biff pointed out, you missed the point ..entirely, not surprising though, you're not too bright.

Let's not jump on the anti-aviation bandwagon. A van is a far greater threat.

 

[JSt0rm]

And in the OP, one of the people responsible for the TSA, meaning someone who actually gets paid to think about it, said it's ineffectual and you're telling him he's wrong.

Could you get any dumber?

No im not telling him hes wrong. His opinion is very valid as i hope he is an expert on the subject. However I'm sure his opinion isnt the only one. You all have clinged to his opinion because it reinforces your preconceived notions. What I'm saying is, yes we should probably make changes but to implement your idea or some of the other ideas listed here would be kinda dumb and not productive. I then pointed out that only idiots would think they could come up with a idea to fix a highly complicated situation in 3 minutes with no real world information. I make no claims as to the solutions regarding this problem as I have no experience, technical understand or real interest in the solution beyond me sitting in a airport. This however doesn't disallow me from pointing out how idiotic you all look posturing this way.

Yes I'm the dumb one.

 

[xj0hnx]

Let's not jump on the anti-aviation bandwagon. A van is a far greater threat.

A van would be good, and could probably be loaded with a bigger, more deadly charge, but wouldn't have the pizazz that a plane would.

 

[xj0hnx]

No im not telling him hes wrong. His opinion is very valid as i hope he is an expert on the subject. However I'm sure his opinion isnt the only one. You all have clinged to his opinion because it reinforces your preconceived notions. What I'm saying is, yes we should probably make changes but to implement your idea or some of the other ideas listed here would be kinda dumb and not productive. I then pointed out that only idiots would think they could come up with a idea to fix a highly complicated situation in 3 minutes with no real world information. I make no claims as to the solutions regarding this problem as I have no experience, technical understand or real interest in the solution beyond me sitting in a airport. This however doesn't disallow me from pointing out how idiotic you all look posturing this way.

You have admittedly no experience, so you saying an idea is idiotic, is just as idiotic for exactly the same reason.

Yes I'm the dumb one.

We know, but someone has to be.

 

[JSt0rm]

You have admittedly no experience, so you saying an idea is idiotic, is just as idiotic for exactly the same reason.

But its not. because I've witnessed how this place works and its hilariously disgusting. You are all like a womens circle 9 to 5 monday thru friday yapping on mindlessly about any topic thats at hand.

Redunkulous.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

When has government bureaucracy ever been more efficient than private sector?

Everyone single country on Earth that has public health care pays less for it than your private version, and with less waste. So there's that...

 

[JSt0rm]

Everyone single country on Earth that has public health care pays less for it than your private version, and with less waste. So there's that...

Thats not part of his belief system so it doesnt exist. Sorry.