Trump would take foreign help in election and not tell FBI: "They have information. I think I'd take it"

[ivwshane]

Point is most people (you may choose differently) felt lying about a BJ under oath is something that can be forgiven or excused. As in nearly every man in the Country would have done the same thing to hide it from his wife or protect his family. Let’s keep the ethics aspect shelved for this discussion.
Maybe I’m wrong but I suspect nearly everyone won’t be so forgiving about lying to conceal a cash payment or some sort of super dirty dealing to win an election.
This is speculation and a reach but I suspect if people were given the choice of what’s forgivable lying about a bj to Congress is probably a whole ton easier than lying about taking stolen goods from Russian Intelligence Agencies with some sort of payback promise if you win.
Context is important

Personally I couldn't care less about him paying off a porn star. Him working with a hostile government to win elections? You bet your ass I care. Blatantly violating the emoluments clause? I definitely care. Obstructing justice when we are trying to figure out what Russia was up to? Yeah.

 

[HomerJS]

I am not going to defend Nixon, but at least he had the decency to step down.

I'm not defending Nixon either but just pointing out Republicans shielded Nixon from criminal prosecution. So if you want to bring up Clinton I'm pointing out GOP set an earlier precedent.

If the only thing Trump did was pay off porn stars and playmates I would not be in favor of impeachment.

 

[ivwshane]

You thought Bill lying to cover up cheating on Hillary in 1996 was OK then and now so evidently you feel cheating and lying against Hillary is no big deal. Donald is lying to cover up cheating on Hillary in 2016. Same act yet different conclusions on your part and you argue it’s “principle.” Context is important.

Hmm...one affects no one and the other affects the whole country...yeah they are equivalent.

 

[HomerJS]

I don't have the clip but Trump's favorite morning show is trying to help Trump walk it back. Disgusting slime, all of them

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I thought we were condemning powerful men for sexually exploiting women? Are we not doing that anymore? Were Clinton to face these charges in a post #metoo world, I expect public sentiments would be quite different. It is also why public adoration of Bill Clinton continues to erode and why Hillary Clinton was unable to leverage Trump’s sexual misconduct against him.

That is pure #bolthsides bullshit and you know it. The topic was lying to Congress and what voters will accept.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You thought Bill lying to cover up cheating on Hillary in 1996 was OK then and now so evidently you feel cheating and lying against Hillary is no big deal. Donald is lying to cover up cheating on Hillary in 2016. Same act yet different conclusions on your part and you argue it’s “principle.” Context is important.

Marriage vs cheating on an election (potentially) are two totally different things. You may not agree but I suspect many in the country are like me.
I have no problems with Trump lying to a congress person about if he put his dick in stormy daniels ass, zero problems with that lie.
Again context is important.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Marriage vs cheating on an election (potentially) are two totally different things. You may not agree but I suspect many in the country are like me.
I have no problems with Trump lying to a congress person about if he put his dick in stormy daniels ass, zero problems with that lie.
Again context is important.

Welcome to the ineffectual comparison zone. It's similar to the twilight zone, but there's way more delusion and insincere apologists.

I may not care about Trump lying about an affair, meh. But violating campaign finance laws to cover it up is a big deal. The myriad of other lies about much more critical topics is a big deal.

 

[Starbuck1975]

That is pure #bolthsides bullshit and you know it. The topic was lying to Congress and what voters will accept.

It’s not bullshit. It’s inconvenient truths that some of you dismiss as #bothsides, without realizing that doing so provides ample cover for Trump.

 

[fskimospy]

@fskimospy mentioned game theory and tit for tat strategy earlier. GOP forced Nixon to resign. When the shoe was on the other foot Dems gave Clinton a pass. Thus game strategy demands GOP give Trump the same pass Clinton got. You can read his numerous posts in this thread laying out the reasoning for this principle.

Lol no. Where did you get this silly idea? Certainly not from me.

The reason to employ that strategy is that Republicans have radicalized to the point where they are no longer respecting governing norms.

Both Nixon and Trump should be impeached because they used the powers of the presidency to commit felonies. Clinton did not. To say that because Democrats refused to remove a president for lying in a civil deposition game theory demands Republicans not remove a president for obstructing an investigation into an attack on the country is absurd. If anything it’s a further violation of governing norms by republicans.

I don’t know why you petulantly lash out like this instead of just admitting your ideas were bad and you were making up history to excuse the behavior of republicans.

 

[ch33zw1z]

It’s not bullshit. It’s inconvenient truths that some of you dismiss as #bothsides, without realizing that doing so provides ample cover for Trump.

Hey look guys, Democrats are covering for Trump. We've got it all wrong. Republicans haven't been completely disingenuous obstructionist dirtbags who want an exclusive america. Man, who knew.

 

[fskimospy]

With regards to Kavanaugh she did the right thing. His entire ordeal was a partisan political charade, despite my acknowledgment that he didn’t deserve the seat.

Absolutely not. He almost certainly perjured himself in his testimony and she didn’t even bother to investigate before giving him a lifetime appointment.

She will lose her seat for this and it will be richly deserved. She betrayed her oath of office.

These are the rationalizations I refer to. He lied under oath and obstructed justice. We either have rules or we don’t. Trump understands this and it is why he evades accountability.

This is a very strange rationalization on your part. I don’t get it. The idea that because people don’t think it’s worth removing a president for lying in a civil deposition they can’t think it’s worth removing the president for interfering in an attack on America by a hostile foreign power is bonkers.

Like how insane would we have to be to say because Bill Clinton wasn’t removed for lying about a blowjob that the president can commit unlimited crime in cahoots with our enemies?

Trump is the manifestation of our societal dysfunctions, and I lay the blame for that where it lands.

yes we do

I hope someday you lay the blame where it truly resides, the people who support him.

By letting republicans off the hook for trump and #bothsides-ing this you’re just enabling them to do it again.

 

[LurchFrinky]

The thing to remember about Clinton's impeachment is that he should have never been asked about the BJ in front of congress. While not morally equivalent, this is similar to asking about your masturbation habits. Someone went digging deep into his personal life to find something that would either cause him to lie, or make him look really bad. It literally had nothing to do with his position as POTUS and was a completely civil matter.

Of course, once he lied, he should have been impeached. And the senate (I believe correctly) came to the conclusion that the punishment did not fit the crime and he was acquitted.

There is nothing to compare to Trump's actions here. Nobody was suggesting that Trump be impeached because of his infidelity with Stormy Daniels. But people are suggesting that he be impeached for campaign finance violations, emoluments violations, and obstruction of justice, among other things. These acts are very much relevant to his position as POTUS and how he gained that position in the first place.

We're comparing apples and bridges here.

 

[fskimospy]

Hey look guys, Democrats are covering for Trump. We've got it all wrong. Republicans haven't been completely disingenuous obstructionist dirtbags who want an exclusive america. Man, who knew.

Look guy, I know you’re mad about the current president committing multiple felonies in support of a Russian espionage operation but the Democrats didn’t remove Clinton in the 90s for lying about an affair. Our hands are tied because those things are clearly the same.

 

[SMOGZINN]

How about we say all of it was wrong and put our foot down and stop it from happening ever again by actually holding a President accountable? Otherwise we just keep this game of escalation going.

The fact is each time has been worse than the last, and we have finally hit a breaking point. We have to put a stop to it.

 

[glenn1]

Look guy, I know you’re mad about the current president committing multiple felonies in support of a Russian espionage operation but the Democrats didn’t remove Clinton in the 90s for lying about an affair. Our hands are tied because those things are clearly the same.

Your "hands are tied" despite being the majority party in the House which controls the impeachment process?

Again, please impeach Trump. If you're not willing to accept the backlash that may accompany Trump being acquitted in the Senate then you're unworthy of having been given the majority in the first place.

 

[fskimospy]

How about we say all of it was wrong and put our foot down and stop it from happening ever again by actually holding a President accountable? Otherwise we just keep this game of escalation going.

The fact is each time has been worse than the last, and we have finally hit a breaking point. We have to put a stop to it.

I think it’s more a tale of increasing Republican radicalization.

Nixon was rightly (about to be) impeached for attempting to cover up felonies undertaken to help him win the presidency. That’s a good thing!

By the 90s republicans had already become heavily radicalized and attempted to remove a Democratic president over something he NEVER would have been removed for in the past. It was ridiculous, but the crazy was already strong.

Now republicans have become so radical that they aren’t willing to remove someone for acts far worse than anything Nixon did and some people are trying to excuse it with #bothsides.

 

[fskimospy]

Your "hands are tied" despite being the majority party in the House which controls the impeachment process? If that's the case then voters should remove your party from the majority since you are unable (read: unwilling) to use it.

Again, please impeach Trump. If you're not willing to accept the backlash that may accompany Trump being acquitted in the Senate then you're unworthy of having been given the majority in the first place.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I think it’s more a tale of increasing Republican radicalization.

Nixon was rightly (about to be) impeached for attempting to cover up felonies undertaken to help him win the presidency. That’s a good thing!

By the 90s republicans had already become heavily radicalized and attempted to remove a Democratic president over something he NEVER would have been removed for in the past. It was ridiculous, but the crazy was already strong.

Now republicans have become so radical that they aren’t willing to remove someone for acts far worse than anything Nixon did and some people are trying to excuse it with #bothsides.

I agree with you in general, but I do think it was wrong for him to lie to congress under oath. Yes, they should not have asked the question, but they did and he did lie. Do I think that it was sufficient cause to impeach him? I didn't think so at the time, and it seems Congress agreed. But now we are seeing it used as an excuse for even worse behavior, so perhaps I was wrong. I didn't foresee the consequences of that action. But now we all see it and should not make the same mistake again.

 

[zinfamous]

It’s not bullshit. It’s inconvenient truths that some of you dismiss as #bothsides, without realizing that doing so provides ample cover for Trump.

If you honestly believe that the Clinton fiasco provides cover for Trump, then you're the problem. This is what your brain has done to you.

Conservatives really do pick the strangest hills.

 

[LurchFrinky]

Your "hands are tied" despite being the majority party in the Senate which convicts in the impeachment process?

Again, please convict Trump. If you're not willing to accept the backlash that may accompany Trump being convicted in the Senate then you're unworthy of having been given the majority in the first place.

FTFY

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[glenn1]

If you honestly believe that the Clinton fiasco provides cover for Trump, then you're the problem. This is what your brain has done to you.

Conservatives really do pick the strangest hills.

You gave one guy a pass for a BJ so the natural extension is the next guy gets a pass when he fvcks you. Decisions have consequences. Expecting your opponent to demonstrate better behavior than you is stupid, monumentally so when it's the GOP who you're expecting to behave better.

 

[Viper1j]

If you read the account of the Monica/Bill affair that's not how it happened. Monica made the first move.

Not condoning but just stating facts.

You can't use facts against republicants!

What are you trying to do? Make them go..

 

[HomerJS]

You gave one guy a pass for a BJ so the natural extension is the next guy gets a pass when he fvcks you. Decisions have consequences. Expecting your opponent to demonstrate better behavior than you is stupid, monumentally so when it's the GOP who you're expecting to behave better.

You gave Nixon a pass for high crimes and not expect Dems to give Clinton a pass for a blowie?

 

[HomerJS]

Your "hands are tied" despite being the majority party in the House which controls the impeachment process?

Again, please impeach Trump. If you're not willing to accept the backlash that may accompany Trump being acquitted in the Senate then you're unworthy of having been given the majority in the first place.

I'll answer by leading you through this one question at a time.

Why should the Democrats impeach Trump

 

[glenn1]

I'll answer by leading you through this one question at a time.

Why should the Democrats impeach Trump

Impeach or don't impeach, I don't really care at this point. The republic will survive even if Trump serves a full 8 years. If the Senate can use its discretion to not convict Clinton for lying under oath then I'm perfectly fine if the Senate uses its discretion to not convict Trump for cheating Democrats to win the Presidency. It's pretty much a precise application of the "tit for tat, escalate on defection" game strategy that @fskimospy advocates.