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Trump wants Russia to make the G8

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Looks like Putin has a shitload of IOUs to cash...

One of the grown ups in the room should take Donnie aside and point out that the G7 unanimously agreed to expel Russia. So all he’s doing is pissing off his allies in order to kiss up to Russia... which doesn’t look good re: that whole witch hunt thing.

He's an isolationist. Or at least plays one on teevee He wants America on its own against the world. He lives by the art of the deal shit. His supporters want the same thing. It's stupid, we do better when we work together, but it is what he ran on.

Hard to imagine a good reason for the major malfunction with the G7. Not content with dismantling Obama's legacy, he is going after that of every postwar president.

America First --> America alone --> America Last
 
Here’s a good reason: autocracies like Russia and China can bribe and blackmail Trump because they aren’t subject to laws that prohibit that. Democracies can’t. Because Trump only cares about himself democracies have almost nothing to offer.
 
So he treats our allies like shit, blocks sanctions on Putin's behalf, and now just wants to the world to forget about Russia invading and annexing Crimea. Pretty amazing stuff.

Putin must be thrilled, what a return on investment for him. That piss tape is going to be great.

Anyone who votes for this pathetic excuse for a man is, like the dipshit himself - mentally ill, a traitor, or both.
 
MomentsofSanity said:
Maybe if Russia leaves Crimea.
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95% Of the people in Crimea would object. They had a referendum. They didn't want anything to do with Kiev. They wanted to be part of Russia. We can discuss about the way things happened. We can discuss details and numbers (95% vs90% or whatever). But fact is: a huge majority of the people in Crimea preferred to be part of Russia.

Americans think democracy is awesome. Unless people vote for someone or something that Americans don't like.

The most frightening sentence in the whole wide world: "We are Americans. We have come to bring you freedom and democracy".
 
Gryz said:
95% Of the people in Crimea would object.

Americans think democracy is awesome. Unless people vote for someone or something that Americans don't like.

The most frightening sentence in the whole wide world: "We are Americans. We have come to bring you freedom and democracy".
Click to expand...
And?

If they wanted to live in Russia they can move to Russia. When Russia invades and ceases land from another country that's an entirely different thing.
 
MomentsofSanity said:
If they wanted to live in Russia they can move to Russia. When Russia invades and ceases land from another country that's an entirely different thing.
Click to expand...
Says who ?
You're Canadian (or American). You probably couldn't point out Crimea on a map. WTF do you know about the situation there ? This is what the people of Crimea wanted. People in Catalunia don't want to be part of Spain. People of Scotland almost didn't want to be part of the UK (a lot of propaganda and fear-mongering skewed that referendum). UK doesn't want to be part of the EU. Who are you, to tell them what they want and how they can achieve it ?
 
Gryz said:
Says who ?
You're Canadian (or American). You probably couldn't point out Crimea on a map. WTF do you know about the situation there ? This is what the people of Crimea wanted. People in Catalunia don't want to be part of Spain. People of Scotland almost didn't want to be part of the UK (a lot of propaganda and fear-mongering skewed that referendum). UK doesn't want to be part of the EU. Who are you, to tell them what they want and how they can achieve it ?
Click to expand...
As a Canadian I'm actually educated. Not sure how that is relevant in discussing a country's sovereignty though but if it makes you feel like you're arguing from some superior position have at it.. What gave Russia the right to seize the land militarily from a sovereign country? Why should a sovereign country tolerate that type of action?
 
Gryz said:
95% Of the people in Crimea would object. They had a referendum. They didn't want anything to do with Kiev. They wanted to be part of Russia. We can discuss about the way things happened. We can discuss details and numbers (95% vs90% or whatever). But fact is: a huge majority of the people in Crimea preferred to be part of Russia.

Americans think democracy is awesome. Unless people vote for someone or something that Americans don't like.

The most frightening sentence in the whole wide world: "We are Americans. We have come to bring you freedom and democracy".
Click to expand...
Let's use your logic. The majority in this country want Trump out of office so Canada should just invade and take him
 
Gryz said:
Says who ?
You're Canadian (or American). You probably couldn't point out Crimea on a map. WTF do you know about the situation there ? This is what the people of Crimea wanted. People in Catalunia don't want to be part of Spain. People of Scotland almost didn't want to be part of the UK (a lot of propaganda and fear-mongering skewed that referendum). UK doesn't want to be part of the EU. Who are you, to tell them what they want and how they can achieve it ?
Click to expand...

Says me.
 
You can say many many MANY things about Trump and a wordsmith


he isnt either

I mean lets take the time to type out what bounced around in the skull of the POTUS :

It used to be the G8 because RUSSIA was in it and now RUSSIAs not in it.
Now I love our country I have been RUSSIAs worst nightmare..blalblabla mandatory Hillary blabla.
RUSSIA should be in this meeting, why are we having a meeting without RUSSIA being in the meeting and I would recommend and its up to them but RUSSIA should be in the meeting.
Wether you like it or not and it may not be pc but we have a world to run and the G7 that used to be G8 they threw RUSSIA out they should let RUSSIA come back in because we should have RUSSIA at the negotiating table.

That is a 54 second monologue and Trump manages to throw RUSSIA in there 9 times... That is every 6 seconds that RUSSIA spews from Trumps mouth.

Putins arse is presently SO CLEAN that it reflects light in the infrared AND ultraviolet spectrum


Commentary:
 
Gryz said:
Americans think democracy is awesome. Unless people vote for someone or something that Americans don't like.
Click to expand...

Crimea wasn't taken due to a vote, it was taken by force from the Ukraine. A small fact that seems to escape you. Yet another Russian apologist 🙁
 
Gryz said:
95% Of the people in Crimea would object. They had a referendum. They didn't want anything to do with Kiev. They wanted to be part of Russia. We can discuss about the way things happened. We can discuss details and numbers (95% vs90% or whatever). But fact is: a huge majority of the people in Crimea preferred to be part of Russia.

Americans think democracy is awesome. Unless people vote for someone or something that Americans don't like.

The most frightening sentence in the whole wide world: "We are Americans. We have come to bring you freedom and democracy".
Click to expand...

95%.. You would be hard pressed to find a less reliable number than that.. wait by what % did Putin win this time around? You get the idea. Democracy is about being a free people and free individuals in a contract with one another.. If you were chosen by the people you wouldnt have to rig elections.
 
cytg111 said:
95%.. You would be hard pressed to find a less reliable number than that.. wait by what % did Putin win this time around? You get the idea. Democracy is about being a free people and free individuals in a contract with one another.. If you were chosen by the people you wouldnt have to rig elections.
Click to expand...

Gryz has a point about Crimea. It's 85% Russian speakers, iirc. It was part of Russia from 1783 until 1992 & only part of the administrative area of Ukraine from 1954. It's home to numerous Russian military facilities & the upheavals in Kiev threatened that arrangement as did Ukrainian flirtations with Nato.

So Putin just took it bloodlessly when Kiev fell into disarray & I'm sure a lot of Crimeans felt relieved. They carry on almost exactly as before with less anxiety. Yeh, sure, the Russian govt sucks but not nearly as desperately as the series of kleptocrats who ran Ukraine. I think that the West would already be over it except that Putin didn't stop there. The war he sponsors in the Donbass is a whole different kind of thing. Relations will rightfully remain icy until that ends.
 
Jhhnn said:
Gryz has a point about Crimea. It's 85% Russian speakers, iirc. It was part of Russia from 1783 until 1992 & only part of the administrative area of Ukraine from 1954. It's home to numerous Russian military facilities & the upheavals in Kiev threatened that arrangement as did Ukrainian flirtations with Nato.

So Putin just took it bloodlessly when Kiev fell into disarray & I'm sure a lot of Crimeans felt relieved. They carry on almost exactly as before with less anxiety. Yeh, sure, the Russian govt sucks but not nearly as desperately as the series of kleptocrats who ran Ukraine. I think that the West would already be over it except that Putin didn't stop there. The war he sponsors in the Donbass is a whole different kind of thing. Relations will rightfully remain icy until that ends.
Click to expand...


What part of "Taken by Force" do you not understand?


How about "Sovereignty"?
 
Jhhnn said:
Gryz has a point about Crimea. It's 85% Russian speakers, iirc. It was part of Russia from 1783 until 1992 & only part of the administrative area of Ukraine from 1954. It's home to numerous Russian military facilities & the upheavals in Kiev threatened that arrangement as did Ukrainian flirtations with Nato.

So Putin just took it bloodlessly when Kiev fell into disarray & I'm sure a lot of Crimeans felt relieved. They carry on almost exactly as before with less anxiety. Yeh, sure, the Russian govt sucks but not nearly as desperately as the series of kleptocrats who ran Ukraine. I think that the West would already be over it except that Putin didn't stop there. The war he sponsors in the Donbass is a whole different kind of thing. Relations will rightfully remain icy until that ends.
Click to expand...
IIRC the events correctly, Putins little green(Spetsnaz) men were spotted, even caught, in Crimea instigating unrest well before the actual invasion, so unless we have some insights well before all that happened I dont know *what* the people of Crimea wanted... (I am thinking to live their lives without war).. The first casualty of war is the truth. Give that a second thought and we're already at war AND have been for some time.
 
Jhhnn said:
I didn't try to justify it.
Click to expand...

Certainly the following could *never* be seen as justification on your part:

"Gryz has a point about Crimea. It's 85% Russian speakers, iirc. It was part of Russia from 1783 until 1992 & only part of the administrative area of Ukraine from 1954. It's home to numerous Russian military facilities & the upheavals in Kiev threatened that arrangement as did Ukrainian flirtations with Nato.

So Putin just took it bloodlessly when Kiev fell into disarray & I'm sure a lot of Crimeans felt relieved. They carry on almost exactly as before with less anxiety. Yeh, sure, the Russian govt sucks but not nearly as desperately as the series of kleptocrats who ran Ukraine. I think that the West would already be over it except that Putin didn't stop there. The war he sponsors in the Donbass is a whole different kind of thing. Relations will rightfully remain icy until that ends."
 
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