Trump University - a fraud according to students

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MrPickins

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
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buckshot24 said:
I'm not answering such a loaded question.
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So, explain what is factually incorrect about the statement.

You object to the use of the word "fraud"? No, the courts haven't yet decided, but I'm willing to make a wager with you right now that it will find that way in the case.
 
MrPickins

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,125
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buckshot24

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
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MrPickins said:
So, explain what is factually incorrect about the statement.

You object to the use of the word "fraud"? No, the courts haven't yet decided, but I'm willing to make a wager with you right now that it will find that way in the case.
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I don't gamble.
 
buckshot24

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
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jackstar7 said:
That looks to be right. http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-u-scandal-gets-worse-floridas-ag

Then there's something also wrong in TX, which apparently needed just $10k more: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...rneys-general-who-declined-to-prosecute-trump
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Think about this. A $25k donation is all it took to "bribe" the AG of the 4th most populace state in the Union? Does that really make any sense? What will 25k buy her in her next re-election bid?
 
jackstar7

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
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Why did you just put bribe in quotations? Are you saying it is not a bribe and there was no conflict of interests? Or are you misusing quotation marks?
 
buckshot24

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
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jackstar7 said:
Why did you just put bribe in quotations? Are you saying it is not a bribe and there was no conflict of interests?
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Because it is a donation until you can show that it is a bribe. There may be a conflict of interest but 25k is peanuts if it is a bribe.
 
jackstar7

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
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buckshot24 said:
Because it is a donation until you can show that it is a bribe. There may be a conflict of interest but 25k is peanuts if it is a bribe.
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Why does the size of the bribe matter?

Maybe these people are easily bought? Aside from getting the money it also saved them the work of actually pursuing the prosecution of the fraud.

But taking the donation and then dropping the suit... you're saying, Occam's Razor applied, not a bribe?
 
buckshot24

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
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jackstar7 said:
Why does the size of the alleged bribe matter?
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Because the theory must make sense.
Maybe these people are easily bought?
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25k would be VERY easily bought. It is laughably absurd that this little money would buy such influence.
Aside from getting the money it also saved them the work of actually pursuing the prosecution of the fraud.
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Why wouldn't the simply drop most of the prosecutions?
But taking the donation and then dropping the suit... you're saying, Occam's Razor applied, not a bribe?
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It doesn't make sense to me that the AG of Florida would take a 25k donation and drop a case like this. The money is paltry and it assumes the AG is a crook herself.

Maybe she didn't see it as having merit? Is this possible or not?
 
J

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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jackstar7 said:
Why does the size of the bribe matter?

Maybe these people are easily bought? Aside from getting the money it also saved them the work of actually pursuing the prosecution of the fraud.

But taking the donation and then dropping the suit... you're saying, Occam's Razor applied, not a bribe?
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Well, you could take the other side of it & claim extortion. Like Don Fanucci in the Godfather- the AG just wants to wet their beak.

It's cheaper than lawyers.
 
jackstar7

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
buckshot24 said:
Because the theory must make sense.
25k would be VERY easily bought. It is laughably absurd that this little money would buy such influence.
Why wouldn't the simply drop most of the prosecutions?
It doesn't make sense to me that the AG of Florida would take a 25k donation and drop a case like this. The money is paltry and it assumes the AG is a crook herself.

Maybe she didn't see it as having merit? Is this possible or not?
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Why wouldn't they drop most prosecutions? Well, I was being silly saying they didn't want the extra work. They'd come under review so quickly for just abandoning cases that I thought it was absurd when I said it and would be taken as silly. To make it plain: I wasn't saying it seriously.

So... it doesn't make sense to you that they'd take money and then drop the case as a quid pro quo because the amount of money doesn't hit a threshold in your mind. Can you say what amount would have to be involved that would shift your thinking to believe it fell on the side of more likely a bribe?

Is it possible in what sense? Not having the facts of the case and evidence gathered, I cannot state whether it is possible to see all that and determine the case has no merit.

Again, I invoke Occam's Razor and ask how does it look like something other than a bribe to you? Are you taking the word of the political advisor of the AG in question when he said it was just coincidence? If so, is that normally how you look at cases of political corruption where the subject has a denial in place?

The system operates with a Innocent until proven guilty rule, but you are not the system. Do you follow that rule as well? In all cases?

I feel like I'm going on a bit here, but your response really got me wondering what it would take for you to look at this Florida AG case and call it a bribe. Would that require a confession by the AG? By Trump himself? By whomever arranged it for Trump through his funds? What would be the tipping point?
 
jackstar7

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
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Jhhnn said:
Well, you could take the other side of it & claim extortion. Like Don Fanucci in the Godfather- the AG just wants to wet their beak.

It's cheaper than lawyers.
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Seems unlikely given both TX and FL being involved. That'd be some weird collusion.
 
buckshot24

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
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jackstar7 said:
Why wouldn't they drop most prosecutions? Well, I was being silly saying they didn't want the extra work. They'd come under review so quickly for just abandoning cases that I thought it was absurd when I said it and would be taken as silly. To make it plain: I wasn't saying it seriously.
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People make silly points all the time, I wasn't sure if you were serious so I took it serious.
The system operates with a Innocent until proven guilty rule, but you are not the system. Do you follow that rule as well? In all cases?
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Definitely not. I've come to a tentative conclusion in this "case" because I find the notion preposterous that a $25,000 donation caused the AG to abandon her professional integrity.
I feel like I'm going on a bit here, but your response really got me wondering what it would take for you to look at this Florida AG case and call it a bribe. Would that require a confession by the AG? By Trump himself? By whomever arranged it for Trump through his funds? What would be the tipping point?
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I'm not sure but something like $500k may make me think differently. You're talking about somebody breaking a law and jeopardizing her career one that cost hundreds of k to get educated for a measly 25k. It simply doesn't make sense to me.

Let me reverse the question. How little would the donation need be in order for you to think this wasn't a bribe? A 5 dollar donation? 1000?
 
jackstar7

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
buckshot24 said:
People make silly points all the time, I wasn't sure if you were serious so I took it serious.
Definitely not. I've come to a tentative conclusion in this "case" because I find the notion preposterous that a $25,000 donation caused the AG to abandon her professional integrity.
I'm not sure but something like $500k may make me think differently. You're talking about somebody breaking a law and jeopardizing her career one that cost hundreds of k to get educated for a measly 25k. It simply doesn't make sense to me.

Let me reverse the question. How little would the donation need be in order for you to think this wasn't a bribe? A 5 dollar donation? 1000?
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I'm of a mind that the timing is what makes the amount irrelevant actually. Just doesn't pass my smell test.

But I think you grossly overestimate what a politicians values their integrity and career. Also most people assume they won't be caught.
 
buckshot24

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
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jackstar7 said:
I'm of a mind that the timing is what makes the amount irrelevant actually. Just doesn't pass my smell test.
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You really can't think a 5 dollar donation could get this favorable reaction from an AG do you? You can't think the number is irrelevant.
But I think you grossly overestimate what a politicians values their integrity and career. Also most people assume they won't be caught.
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Maybe so.
 
J

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
jackstar7 said:
Seems unlikely given both TX and FL being involved. That'd be some weird collusion.
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Not collusion- just the same way of doing things. I'm sure that crooked prosecutors have been squeezing cash out of crooked defendants for a long while. They just want a taste of the action.

Beyond that, it's clearly difficult to prosecute such schemes or they wouldn't be so prevalent.
 
buckshot24

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
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91
Jhhnn said:
Not collusion- just the same way of doing things. I'm sure that crooked prosecutors have been squeezing cash out of crooked defendants for a long while. They just want a taste of the action.
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Right, an officially traceable measly 25k. You accuse us of believing every wild conspiracy then you come up with something this ridiculous.
 
DrPizza

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Here's an easy one:
In how many states was the AG investigating or about to investigate Trump University for fraud? Two.

In how many states has Donald Trump donated to the Attorney General's campaign? Two.

Well, there are only 50 states, so it's probably just a coincidence, right? Imho, both attorney generals should be investigated over this.
 
E

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,824
1,583
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buckshot24 said:
Right, an officially traceable measly 25k. You accuse us of believing every wild conspiracy then you come up with something this ridiculous.
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This article has a listing of Trump's other political donations to other Attorney Generals. What strikes me is the he gave 2 of his largest donations to Bondi and Abbott. What makes it more concerning was the discrepancy as to whom asked for the donation and the timing. Lastly, Trump says he sees donations as good business. He gives a donation and asks for a favor.

I honestly don't understand what you see in Trump that you're spending countless hours defending him. You may need to step away from this for a bit and reevaluate who he really is.

1998
Dennis Vacco, R-N.Y., $27,965
2002
Eliot Spitzer, D-N.Y., $11,000 Spitzer resigned one year after serving as governor of New York in 2008
2006
Walter Campbell Jr., D-Calif., $1,000
Edmund Brown Jr., D-Calif., $1,000 Brown now serves as the governor of California
Andrew Cuomo, D-N.Y., $20,000 Cuomo now serves as the governor of New York
Jeanine Pirro, R-N.Y., $10,000 Pirro is currently a television personality on Fox News
2010
Kathleen Rice, D-N.Y., $19,050 Rice now serves as Representative to New York’s 4th district
Eric Schneiderman, D-N.Y., $12,500
Daniel Donovan, R-N.Y., $5,000 Donovan now serves as Representative to New York’s 11th district
2014
Pamela Bondi, R-Fla., $500
Kamala Harris, D-Calif., $6,000
John Cahill, R-N.Y., $20,000
https://sunlightfoundation.com/blog...-history-of-paying-to-sway-attorneys-general/
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