Trump ties to Russia looking stronger every day

[jhbball]

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-russia-manafort-235850

"During the RNC the Trump campaign allegedly demanded that the Republican platform remove language that supported providing Ukraine with material assistance against Russia, we knew this.
Shortly after, Trump and Manafort were both grilled on why they did this, both denied being involved, we knew this.
The news seems to be that a former campaign official has just told the media that Trump personally and specifically asked for this platform change, and further that the Russia Dossier is specifically referencing this platform change being related somehow to Russia releasing the DNC leaks."

The famous dossier referenced this event specifically, and is looking more realistic every day.

I personally can't wait for the pee tapes to be released.

 

[sandorski]

The Dossier specifically alleges that the Trump Campaign was on collusion with the Russians. There's no evidence of that, but more details of events in the Dossier are being shown to be true as time goes on. If the Dossier is correct, Trump has committed what I imagine to be the most egregious crime in US Political history.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

The Dossier specifically alleges that the Trump Campaign was on collusion with the Russians. There's no evidence of that, but more details of events in the Dossier are being shown to be true as time goes on. If the Dossier is correct, Trump has committed what I imagine to be the most egregious crime in US Political history.

Pretty sure the title for that goes to the voters who made him President.

 

[Moonbeam]

It would be a real blow to the self esteem of the nation is Trump urns out to be a Russian agent. Just imagine the blackmail potential. Seems to me he and all associated with him will have to be removed for national security reasons.

 

[Homerboy]

It would be a real blow to the self esteem of the nation is Trump urns out to be a Russian agent. Just imagine the blackmail potential. Seems to me he and all associated with him will have to be removed for national security reasons.

The problem is that if he ends up to be in-cahoots with Russia due to blackmail or just straight up, unabashed treason sure we lose Trump, but the Russian and US relationship will never be more strained and closer to WWIII. Tensions will be THROUGH THE ROOF. Things will get really ugly world wide as nations start to pick sides. This isn't going to be some localized joke that only affects America and Americans -- if those peepee tapes are real, they could bring about the end of mankind (exaggeration for affect)

 

[jhbball]

If in fact Trump is guilty of this? What happens next? Impeachment? A re-do for the election? I'm actually scared of the all the Trump supporters who consider every piece of negative feedback "fake news".

 

[fskimospy]

If in fact Trump is guilty of this? What happens next? Impeachment? A re-do for the election? I'm actually scared of the all the Trump supporters who consider every piece of negative feedback "fake news".

If he turns out to be guilty, which is a HUGE if, he would probably be impeached and replaced by Pence.

 

[ivwshane]

If in fact Trump is guilty of this? What happens next? Impeachment? A re-do for the election? I'm actually scared of the all the Trump supporters who consider every piece of negative feedback "fake news".

According to one elite member, he'll take up arms against anyone wanting to remove trump from office. So my guess is civil war.

 

[Jhhnn]

According to one elite member, he'll take up arms against anyone wanting to remove trump from office. So my guess is civil war.

My guess is just shit talkin' fools.

 

[mikeymikec]

Pretty sure the title for that goes to the voters who made him President.

Though I was as astonished at the result as I was the lack of turnout for that election. IMO those should bear some of the blame for this mess as well.

Having said that, I think I'm going to have a tough time picking who I'll vote for in the next UK election, unless the parties' positions change drastically.

 

[disappoint]

If in fact Trump is guilty of this? What happens next? Impeachment? A re-do for the election? I'm actually scared of the all the Trump supporters who consider every piece of negative feedback "fake news".

Not every bit of negative news is fake, but some of it is.

Admit it, the people that believed peegate without a shred of evidence did so driven by hate because it was anti-Trump fake news. Had the same allegations been made against Hillary they would have called it ridiculous. Were you one of the pee true believers? Urine trouble now! 😉

 

[Commodus]

If in fact Trump is guilty of this? What happens next? Impeachment? A re-do for the election? I'm actually scared of the all the Trump supporters who consider every piece of negative feedback "fake news".

Impeachment would be the minimum, I think. Criminal charges would have to follow, and that would likely extend beyond Trump to include anyone who met with Russia to arrange deals.

The big question: what about the election results? If Trump was found to have colluded with the Russians, that lends support to findings that the Russians used the DNC hacks to skew the election. Do you leave those results as-is knowing that Trump's entire apparatus was ultimately another country's geopolitical ploy? Personally, I'd be uncomfortable with that -- especially since a Trump ouster would likely mean the forced departures of cabinet members who've met with Russia or have an interest in courting it (Sessions and Tillerson, for starters). It depends on what the law allows, of course, but I'd either want a fresh election or some mandatory actions for Pence, such as firing some or all of Trump's appointees.

The one certainty: if this connection is established, the Republicans take a gigantic hit. Even with their gerrymandering and voter ID laws, they face serious losses in 2018 and likely 2020. At least, representatives will be asked why they didn't take claims seriously; at worst, the ones who obviously tried to shelter Trump from investigation (Jason Chaffetz, anyone?) will be branded as traitors to the country.

 

[ivwshane]

Impeachment would be the minimum, I think. Criminal charges would have to follow, and that would likely extend beyond Trump to include anyone who met with Russia to arrange deals.

The big question: what about the election results? If Trump was found to have colluded with the Russians, that lends support to findings that the Russians used the DNC hacks to skew the election. Do you leave those results as-is knowing that Trump's entire apparatus was ultimately another country's geopolitical ploy? Personally, I'd be uncomfortable with that -- especially since a Trump ouster would likely mean the forced departures of cabinet members who've met with Russia or have an interest in courting it (Sessions and Tillerson, for starters). It depends on what the law allows, of course, but I'd either want a fresh election or some mandatory actions for Pence, such as firing some or all of Trump's appointees.

The one certainty: if this connection is established, the Republicans take a gigantic hit. Even with their gerrymandering and voter ID laws, they face serious losses in 2018 and likely 2020. At least, representatives will be asked why they didn't take claims seriously; at worst, the ones who obviously tried to shelter Trump from investigation (Jason Chaffetz, anyone?) will be branded as traitors to the country.

That makes sense and seems entirely logical but it's precisely for those reasons that I think you are wrong. The right, and Republicans especially, put party before country and I don't think such an egregious offense would affect them one bit let alone prevent them from voting in more Republicans.

At a national level? Sure, I would think they're would be enough independents to say no thanks to another Republican president after this shit storm.

 

[HomerJS]

Impeachment followed by criminal charges. Trump collusion with Russia would be treason.

 

[Blackjack200]

If he turns out to be guilty, which is a HUGE if, he would probably be impeached and replaced by Pence.

When we say "guilty", we mean that we can establish a quid pro quo of Russian support/interference for favorable treatment (e.g. easing sanctions), right?

I think it would be a very serious constitutional crisis, and people would be upset by Mike Pence serving the balance of the term when the election is essentially considered illegitimate. Trump's supporters would feel disenfranchised since none of their votes really had anything to do with the Russian efforts.

Pro Publica published a story yesterday about the hundreds of idiot/corrupt cronies Trump has installed as his "beachhead" team in leadership positions across the federal government. Those people would presumably remain. If this was discovered in 2020 or something, maybe you could run out the clock... but in 2017?

 

[sandorski]

When we say "guilty", we mean that we can establish a quid pro quo of Russian support/interference for favorable treatment (e.g. easing sanctions), right?

I think it would be a very serious constitutional crisis, and people would be upset by Mike Pence serving the balance of the term when the election is essentially considered illegitimate. Trump's supporters would feel disenfranchised since none of their votes really had anything to do with the Russian efforts.

Pro Publica published a story yesterday about the hundreds of idiot/corrupt cronies Trump has installed as his "beachhead" team in leadership positions across the federal government. Those people would presumably remain. If this was discovered in 2020 or something, maybe you could run out the clock... but in 2017?

It would certainly be a shitstorm.

 

[Homerboy]

It would certainly be a shitstorm.

This is probably the best estimate that can possibly be given.

 

[fskimospy]

When we say "guilty", we mean that we can establish a quid pro quo of Russian support/interference for favorable treatment (e.g. easing sanctions), right?

I think it would be a very serious constitutional crisis, and people would be upset by Mike Pence serving the balance of the term when the election is essentially considered illegitimate. Trump's supporters would feel disenfranchised since none of their votes really had anything to do with the Russian efforts.

Pro Publica published a story yesterday about the hundreds of idiot/corrupt cronies Trump has installed as his "beachhead" team in leadership positions across the federal government. Those people would presumably remain. If this was discovered in 2020 or something, maybe you could run out the clock... but in 2017?

I agree it would be an incredible disaster. My wild ass guess is that assuming Pence had no knowledge (or he'd be out as well) that it would basically become some sort of agreement where Pence sits there as a caretaker president and isn't allowed to do anything other than keep the lights on until the next election, which he would presumably bow out of.

 

[HTFOff]

This is approaching birther levels of hysteria.

Perhaps some of you are privy to info the CIA is not. If you are, hand it over so we can end this.

If not, come to reality ASAP. The inevitable disappointment to come will be less harsh emotionally.

 

[fskimospy]

This is approaching birther levels of hysteria.

Perhaps some of you are privy to info the CIA is not. If you are, hand it over so we can end this.

If not, come to reality ASAP. The inevitable disappointment to come will be less harsh emotionally.

This is not even remotely close to birther levels of anything. One thing (birtherism) was people convinced of something that was demonstrably false and then kept believing it even harder the more it was disproven. The Trump/Russia stuff is people speculating (sometimes on flimsy evidence!) how much further a scandal will go that has already led to the resignation of one cabinet level official, might get a second one, and could lead to a special prosecutor being appointed.

Sliiiiiiiiiiiiiightly different.

 

[Homerboy]

This is approaching birther levels of hysteria.

Perhaps some of you are privy to info the CIA is not. If you are, hand it over so we can end this.

If not, come to reality ASAP. The inevitable disappointment to come will be less harsh emotionally.

Except, you know, Obama produced his birth certificate.
Trump could produce his taxes...

 

[MomentsofSanity]

This is approaching birther levels of hysteria.

Perhaps some of you are privy to info the CIA is not. If you are, hand it over so we can end this.

If not, come to reality ASAP. The inevitable disappointment to come will be less harsh emotionally.

ummmm. no, it's not. Not even close.

See the difference with birtherism is there wasn't anything tangible that was actually evidence. There was nothing that actually occurred that was verifiable and true. That is not the case here. People in Trump's camp DID meet with Russians. People in Trump's camp DID lie about it. Apparently those contacts were even intercepted.

That is a cavernous difference... well... if you want to be objective and honest that is. We will see by the response if we are going that route.

Full disclosure. I doubt it goes anywhere. But there is actually something here that should be looked into as it, you know, exists.

 

[fskimospy]

ummmm. no, it's not. Not even close.

See the difference with birtherism is there wasn't anything tangible that was actually evidence. There was nothing that actually occurred that was verifiable and true. That is not the case here. People in Trump's camp DID meet with Russians. People in Trump's camp DID lie about it. Apparently those contacts were even intercepted.

That is a cavernous difference... well... if you want to be objective and honest that is. We will see by the response if we are going that route.

Full disclosure. I doubt it goes anywhere. But there is actually something here that should be looked into as it, you know, exists.

Exactly. I find it unlikely there is some smoking gun that ties Trump to all this but considering the quantity of lies that have come from people very close to him about the issue it absolutely bears investigation. To equate it to a racist urban legend is just an attempt to dodge the issue.

 

[HTFOff]

Except, you know, Obama produced his birth certificate.
Trump could produce his taxes...

What are you expecting to find on his taxes?

If there was damning evidence on his taxes WRT russia don't you think someone in the intel community would have made sure it was in public view? We're talking about taxes here. If they wanted that info they could get it. I'm guessing they've already seen it and if it is released many will be disappointed.

 

[ivwshane]

Here's a handy little chart.