Trump...Tax Fraud? Say it ain't so!

[fskimospy]

Unfortunately all I’m hearing is they are looking hard at Jr Mint.

Where are you hearing this? Also, almost certainly anything Don Jr. is involved with is as part of the Trump Organization, which leads right back to dad.

Like I said though, I'm not sure who will be indicted or for what but Vance clearly looks to be interested in indicting someone related to Trump.

 

[soundforbjt]

Where are you hearing this? Also, almost certainly anything Don Jr. is involved with is as part of the Trump Organization, which leads right back to dad.

Like I said though, I'm not sure who will be indicted or for what but Vance clearly looks to be interested in indicting someone related to Trump.

It was on CNN ,iirc. They said don jr and the top officer Weisselberg (sp?) were being being scrutinized over don jr’s recent written claims on Feb 11.

EDIT: Correction, it was about the inauguration funds.

Donald Trump Jr. deposed by DC attorney general as part of inaugural funds lawsuit

Donald Trump Jr. was deposed as part of the Washington, DC, attorney general's lawsuit alleging the misuse of Trump inaugural funds, according to a new court filing, the latest investigation in which the former President's children have surfaced.

www.cnn.com

 

[fskimospy]

It was on CNN ,iirc. They said don jr and the top officer Weisselberg (sp?) were being being scrutinized over don jr’s recent written claims on Feb 11.

Oh then I would definitely not take that to mean the investigation is somehow limited to Don Jr. They are just getting started.

I wouldn't expect Trump to be asked for statements for months because what they are going to do now is have the forensic accounting firm Vance hired go over his tax returns and the finances of his business and construct what they think he actually owed in taxes and compare it to what he claimed. After they are done with that, which will take months, they will then start getting statements from Trump Org. officials/Trump as to why the discrepancies exist, and go from there.

Again, the Manhattan DA is investing a shitload of time and money into this case, they clearly think they have something and it likely involves Trump himself.

 

[hal2kilo]

Oh then I would definitely not take that to mean the investigation is somehow limited to Don Jr. They are just getting started.

I wouldn't expect Trump to be asked for statements for months because what they are going to do now is have the forensic accounting firm Vance hired go over his tax returns and the finances of his business and construct what they think he actually owed in taxes and compare it to what he claimed. After they are done with that, which will take months, they will then start getting statements from Trump Org. officials/Trump as to why the discrepancies exist, and go from there.

Again, the Manhattan DA is investing a shitload of time and money into this case, they clearly think they have something and it likely involves Trump himself.

I swear, the only way Weisselberg gets off, is if he turns states evidence. I mean if Cohen can go to jail, he most certainly should.

 

[MrSquished]

There are some really busy forensic accountants in NY state right now. Personally we should start a GoFundMe for them just for a coffee fund, let's keep them going until they get this done.

 

[Greenman]

Oh then I would definitely not take that to mean the investigation is somehow limited to Don Jr. They are just getting started.

I wouldn't expect Trump to be asked for statements for months because what they are going to do now is have the forensic accounting firm Vance hired go over his tax returns and the finances of his business and construct what they think he actually owed in taxes and compare it to what he claimed. After they are done with that, which will take months, they will then start getting statements from Trump Org. officials/Trump as to why the discrepancies exist, and go from there.

Again, the Manhattan DA is investing a shitload of time and money into this case, they clearly think they have something and it likely involves Trump himself.

I don't see how they can estimate what Trump would have owed without all of the supporting documentation. It seems to me that there is specific transactions or information they're looking for.

 

[brycejones]

I don't see how they can estimate what Trump would have owed without all of the supporting documentation. It seems to me that there is specific transactions or information they're looking for.

Did you know they've requested more than just his tax returns?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I don't see how they can estimate what Trump would have owed without all of the supporting documentation. It seems to me that there is specific transactions or information they're looking for.

Pure guess here, I’m going with values of properties/assets. That is the low hanging fruit. Were properties over valued for loans or debt statements vs what they were valued at regarding taxes.
I am not an accountant so I could easily be wrong.

 

[nOOky]

While over valuing his properties is disingenuous, I would expect that the lending institution shares in the blame for not properly vetting his properties in the first place. You know how hard it is for a working class stiff to buy a house, i can't imagine handing over 100 million on a handshake is smart at all. I could be wrong, perhaps they do and he just lied, but I still put it on them.

 

[Greenman]

Pure guess here, I’m going with values of properties/assets. That is the low hanging fruit. Were properties over valued for loans or debt statements vs what they were valued at regarding taxes.
I am not an accountant so I could easily be wrong.

I could see that. Though I would have to wonder why it's being looked at if there wasn't a victim. The DA wouldn't get involved unless someone complained.
If it was a case of under valuing property to avoid taxes, I would expect the state tax authority to be spearheading the investigation. It seems clear they think whatever information they need will be present in Trumps tax returns. I'm curious as to what that might be.

 

[Greenman]

While over valuing his properties is disingenuous, I would expect that the lending institution shares in the blame for not properly vetting his properties in the first place. You know how hard it is for a working class stiff to buy a house, i can't imagine handing over 100 million on a handshake is smart at all. I could be wrong, perhaps they do and he just lied, but I still put it on them.

I've never heard of a bank lending against the stated value of a property. There is always a third party appraisal.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't see how they can estimate what Trump would have owed without all of the supporting documentation. It seems to me that there is specific transactions or information they're looking for.

Good news for us all, they have those too:

Prosecutors just got millions of pages of Trump documents. His taxes are only the beginning.

The records are likely to offer New York investigators a revealing look into the former president’s business dealings, experts say.

www.nbcnews.com

The materials that Trump fought to keep secret go far beyond his tax returns. Mazars USA, Trump's longtime accounting firm, was expected to turn over “any and all statements of financial condition, annual statements, periodic financial reports, and independent auditors’ reports,” according to court documents.

Like I've been saying from the beginning, the tax returns are just the starting point but even with those the NYT was able to show likely tax fraud. As I predicted Trump is in serious legal jeopardy.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I've never heard of a bank lending against the stated value of a property. There is always a third party appraisal.

And banks aren't supposed to launder money for criminal enterprises or bad state actors, but somehow Deutsche Bank got fined $20B for doing just that....
So clearly, banks will do something if they believe it's lucrative enough

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I could see that. Though I would have to wonder why it's being looked at if there wasn't a victim. The DA wouldn't get involved unless someone complained.
If it was a case of under valuing property to avoid taxes, I would expect the state tax authority to be spearheading the investigation. It seems clear they think whatever information they need will be present in Trumps tax returns. I'm curious as to what that might be.

Could be as simple as local property taxes, as in his organization gave falsified accounting as to let’s say what Trump tower is worth regarding rent collection and such. Thereby getting a tax abatement or similar. The. Reporting to a bank completely different revenue numbers in this case the City and/or the bank were damaged.
Again I am no expert just seems to be the easiest fraud to perform and the easiest to track once you have the tax papers.

 

[fskimospy]

Could be as simple as local property taxes, as in his organization gave falsified accounting as to let’s say what Trump tower is worth regarding rent collection and such. Thereby getting a tax abatement or similar. The. Reporting to a bank completely different revenue numbers in this case the City and/or the bank were damaged.
Again I am no expert just seems to be the easiest fraud to perform and the easiest to track once you have the tax papers.

I mean an easy example would be the previous tax fraud by Trump the NYT already uncovered, haha.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Pure guess here, I’m going with values of properties/assets. That is the low hanging fruit. Were properties over valued for loans or debt statements vs what they were valued at regarding taxes.
I am not an accountant so I could easily be wrong.

Accounting is a complex subject. While there are items such as GAAP (Generally accepted accounting principles) there is also Tax accounting - where your accounting is entirely based on how best to pay minimal taxation.

It's not something that is necessarily very easy for the IRS to easily argue all the time. It's not always about a paper trail of receipts or anything where it's some kind of quick aha! Gotcha!

For example, if I buy a pool for $50k - did my home just increase in value by $50k? Absolutely not, ROI for a pool when selling a home is roughly 50% - so more closer to $25k. Then you get into things like depreciation, etc... and one of the many reasons why I don't do accounting shit and just focus on taxation heh.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Accounting is a complex subject. While there are items such as GAAP (Generally accepted accounting principles) there is also Tax accounting - where your accounting is entirely based on how best to pay minimal taxation.

It's not something that is necessarily very easy for the IRS to easily argue all the time. It's not always about a paper trail of receipts or anything where it's some kind of quick aha! Gotcha!

For example, if I buy a pool for $50k - did my home just increase in value by $50k? Absolutely not, ROI for a pool when selling a home is roughly 50% - so more closer to $25k. Then you get into things like depreciation, etc... and one of the many reasons why I don't do accounting shit and just focus on taxation heh.

Yeah, this is what I mean. Value is a difficult concept. We all claim to be experts at it but really nobody is. Simple example.
Office across from Donald Trumps office is for rent. Some people will pay over market value because they’ll be able to interact with Donald Trump, others like a Jeff Bezos I’ll pay less because they will have to interact with Donald Trump daily. What is the true value of this office? Some will pay substantially more while others will pay substantially less. Who is the office best suited for? What impact on value does Donald Trump being across the hall carry to the person most likely to rent the office space?

 

[fskimospy]

Yeah, this is what I mean. Value is a difficult concept. We all claim to be experts at it but really nobody is. Simple example.
Office across from Donald Trumps office is for rent. Some people will pay over market value because they’ll be able to interact with Donald Trump, others like a Jeff Bezos I’ll pay less because they will have to interact with Donald Trump daily. What is the true value of this office? Some will pay substantially more while others will pay substantially less. Who is the office best suited for? What impact on value does Donald Trump being across the hall carry to the person most likely to rent the office space?

I think they will be looking for a few different things, and probably a lot more:

1) Tax fraud similar to what the NYT uncovered because they know he's done it before. That's laundering your money through shell companies for tax advantages, etc.
2) Tax fraud through 'consulting' as with the very suspicious payments to Ivanka for consulting with a company she was a full time employee of.
3) Bank and tax fraud where Trump is telling one entity that his property is worth $5 million and telling another entity it's worth $50 million. There can be legitimate reasons to do this, but there are lots of illegitimate reasons to do this.

There's no way the Manhattan DA office invests this kind of time and money in a case unless they think it will bear fruit.

 

[hal2kilo]

Where are you hearing this? Also, almost certainly anything Don Jr. is involved with is as part of the Trump Organization, which leads right back to dad.

Like I said though, I'm not sure who will be indicted or for what but Vance clearly looks to be interested in indicting someone related to Trump.

Definitely heard noise about Ivanka. Seems she's quite the consultant.
Maybe daddy figures, prison ain't so bad for females.

 

[MrSquished]

I'm really struggling with the concept that a guy who ran a fraudulent university, a fraudulent charity, was notorious for 'robbing' contractors that worked on his properties, and lied non-stop about anything and everything as a politician on a level not seen before, would even be capable of any kind of tax or financial fraud.

 

[compuwiz1]

What Trump did or didn't do before his presidency may be moot. At some point the statute of limitations runs out. So, which years are they trying to prosecute? White collar crimes, expired by SOL, will probably make the prosecutors SOL. I'm certain Trump's counsel is aware of this and will base their defense on it.

 

[fskimospy]

What Trump did or didn't do before his presidency may be moot. At some point the statute of limitations runs out. So, which years are they trying to prosecute? White collar crimes, expired by SOL, will probably make the prosecutors SOL. I'm certain Trump's counsel is aware of this and will base their defense on it.

No, they wouldn’t bother wasting the time and resources on investigating crimes that fall behind the statute of limitations because they couldn’t do anything even if they proved them. That’s why they aren’t trying to prosecute him for the tax fraud in the 90s that people uncovered.

They have just hired a highly prestigious and expensive forensic accounting group and an extremely experienced white collar prosecutor for the sole purpose of assisting with this investigation. You don’t do that unless you are looking at live crimes they expect to indict people on. There’s always a chance they won’t find anything worth pursuing but they clearly think they will, or they already have.

This is kind of common sense though. Do you think the guy who spent his whole life committing crimes and scamming people decided to just stop after decades of not being punished for it? That seems unlikely.

 

[SMOGZINN]

What Trump did or didn't do before his presidency may be moot. At some point the statute of limitations runs out. So, which years are they trying to prosecute? White collar crimes, expired by SOL, will probably make the prosecutors SOL. I'm certain Trump's counsel is aware of this and will base their defense on it.

There is no statute of limitations on federal tax fraud.

 

[compuwiz1]

There is no statute of limitations on federal tax fraud.

It would seem that if there was tax fraud, he would have been busted and the IRS would already know. Actually, you are correct about the statute of limitations, but beyond 6 years its civil, not criminal. Let's say there was fraud 8 years ago, they would have had 6 years for criminal prosecution, but now that it's 8 years ago, the worst that could happen would be civil penalties. He'll probably just have to pay the taxes, fines, fees, etc.

 

[Jhhnn]

There is no statute of limitations on federal tax fraud.

That's not quite true-

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