Trump shutdown delayed work on software fix for 737 MAX unexpected nosedive problem

[HomerJS]

There is a cover up in progress with the FAA. The flight data transmitted to satellites has been available while FAA refused to ground the planes. Now they are claiming they are doing it because of new information.

Boeing President was pressuring the White House not to do it. The FAA and Elaine Chow were sitting on their hands until Canada not only grounded their planes but removed them from their air space. Political pressure and action by other countries caused the about face.

The United States has ceded their leadership role in worldwide aviation.

 

[zinfamous]

...... but I do want our President to think long and hard about .....

LOL!

 

[Greenman]

I find it very hard to believe that Boeing wants defective planes flying. It's poor marketing when your product crashes into the ground killing hundreds of people and the story with pictures is told world wide. Not to mention the billions of dollars worth of law suits they will face. If the company really is that stupid and greedy they should be out of business. They should be sued into oblivion.

If Boeing knew the software was defective and didn't take action, the people who made that decision should be charged with murder and imprisoned.
The Trump connection headline is nothing more than click bait, or an admission of guilt by Boeing, take your pick.

 

[HomerJS]

I find it very hard to believe that Boeing wants defective planes flying. It's poor marketing when your product crashes into the ground killing hundreds of people and the story with pictures is told world wide. Not to mention the billions of dollars worth of law suits they will face. If the company really is that stupid and greedy they should be out of business. They should be sued into oblivion.

If Boeing knew the software was defective and didn't take action, the people who made that decision should be charged with murder and imprisoned.
The Trump connection headline is nothing more than click bait, or an admission of guilt by Boeing, take your pick.

What part of "the patch would have gone out in Jan if it weren't for the government shutdown" makes this post clickbait??

 

[thilanliyan]

I put the blame squarely on Boeing...if there was a patch being worked on they knew it was an issue, so they should have ASKED THE FAA THEMSELVES to ground the planes asap. Instead, now they run the risk of a multitude of lawsuits which will tank their share price (which is likely what they care about most) even more than had they just asked to ground the planes back when the Lion Air crash happened. If companies are people they are some damned stupid ones lol. And if the CEO really had tried to get Trump not to ground the planes...what a dumbass...I hope he is personally liable for his inaction but I'm not gonna hold my breath, cause it's just white collar crime!!

 

[HomerJS]

I put the blame squarely on Boeing...if there was a patch being worked on they knew it was an issue, so they should have ASKED THE FAA THEMSELVES to ground the planes asap. Instead, now they run the risk of a multitude of lawsuits which will tank their share price (which is likely what they care about most) even more than had they just asked to ground the planes back when the Lion Air crash happened. If companies are people they are some damned stupid ones lol. And if the CEO really had tried to get Trump not to ground the planes...what a dumbass...I hope he is personally liable for his inaction but I'm not gonna hold my breath, cause it's just white collar crime!!

Fair statement. When the 777 batteries caught fire it took government intervention to ground them. Obama's transportation secretary took action. Miss the days of responsible government.

 

[UberNeuman]

What part of "the patch would have gone out in Jan if it weren't for the government shutdown" makes this post clickbait??

You need not justify to yourself to Mr. “I don’t know anything when it’s convenient.”

Trump endangering people is one of those things he likes about him.

 

[hal2kilo]

There is a cover up in progress with the FAA. The flight data transmitted to satellites has been available while FAA refused to ground the planes. Now they are claiming they are doing it because of new information.

Boeing President was pressuring the White House not to do it. The FAA and Elaine Chow were sitting on their hands until Canada not only grounded their planes but removed them from their air space. Political pressure and action by other countries caused the about face.

The United States has ceded their leadership role in worldwide aviation.

It's all pay to play now.

 

[hal2kilo]

You need not justify to yourself to Mr. “I don’t know anything when it’s convenient.”

Trump endangering people is one of those things he likes about him.

The press seems to be ignorant of one of Trump's most common techniques. Playing dumb! "No, I haven't thought about it, I don't know if I can do it." "I don't know that person, never met him" and on, and on, and on,.......................................

 

[Starbuck1975]

Fair statement. When the 777 batteries caught fire it took government intervention to ground them. Obama's transportation secretary took action. Miss the days of responsible government.

Responsible government also doesn’t create unecessary hysteria. In the case of the 787, the FAA didn’t immediately act, nor did Boeing stop the 787 line as they troubleshooted the problem.

Other countries and airlines followed China’s lead and social media hysteria. This isn’t necessarily a good thing, as one of the lingering concerns of China’s push into commercial aviation is safety, so this was a way for them to take a jab at Boeing.

The FAA ultimately made the right decision.

The lingering question is whether or not Boeing irresponsibly, purposely or knowingly suppressed safety concerns with the aircraft.

 

[thilanliyan]

The lingering question is whether or not Boeing irresponsibly, purposely or knowingly suppressed safety concerns with the aircraft.

Don't quote me on this but a friend of mine said that American Airlines has a specific manual override for the functionality in question, presumably because the pilots were trained properly and requested it. If that is the case, then Boeing knew that it could be an issue, but didn't provide that override to other airlines. It's really not looking good for Boeing on the lawsuit front.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Don't quote me on this but a friend of mine said that American Airlines has a specific manual override for the functionality in question, presumably because the pilots were trained properly and requested it. If that is the case, then Boeing knew that it could be an issue, but didn't provide that override to other airlines. It's really not looking good for Boeing on the lawsuit front.

There is a persistent theme showing up in other forums that US airline pilots were well aware of the issue and the manual override “fix”. I’ve heard that planes exhibit a certain altitude fluctuation when this situation occurs, and that flight data could help determine on how many flights this happened on. Not sure I believe this but it sounds plausible.

 

[Victorian Gray]

There is a persistent theme showing up in other forums that US airline pilots were well aware of the issue and the manual override “fix”. I’ve heard that planes exhibit a certain altitude fluctuation when this situation occurs, and that flight data could help determine on how many flights this happened on. Not sure I believe this but it sounds plausible.

Oops, not exactly related to what your wrote so nm.

 

[K1052]

Don't quote me on this but a friend of mine said that American Airlines has a specific manual override for the functionality in question, presumably because the pilots were trained properly and requested it. If that is the case, then Boeing knew that it could be an issue, but didn't provide that override to other airlines. It's really not looking good for Boeing on the lawsuit front.

From what I’ve read MCAS can be disabled by hitting the switches for the electric trim on any of the Maxes.

In the end it looks like Boeing and the regulators made certain decisions/assumptions about the system and how extensively crews needed to be trained on it and the consequences have been fatal.

 

[kage69]

Looks to me like an existing problem got a tepid response, which looks to have been affected by the shut down. Little surprise the WH is now leaning on the FAA to say otherwise. This is the kind of "trickledown" that actually happens under banana republican administrations. Throw it on the pile?

Ethiopia? Isn't that one of those shit hole countries? I doubt Trump, Mr. They Knew What They Signed Up For, is going to lose much sleep over that flight.

 

[bbhaag]

The shutdown caused a delay implementing a patch scheduled for end of Jan. Trump was responsible for the shutdown and you want to absolve him of blame?

If the patch goes in as scheduled those people live.

Boeing also needs to answer for the defect.

First off I'm not absolving anyone of blame you're putting words in my mouth so lets shut that part of your reply down right now.

Second, why in the hell did Boeing manufacture an airplane that has a sudden and unexpected tendency to crash itself? An airplane that needs a "software patch" to function properly sounds like an airplane that wasn't ready for mass production. For that I put the blame squarely on Boeing.

 

[Lanyap]

The shutdown caused a delay implementing a patch scheduled for end of Jan. Trump was responsible for the shutdown and you want to absolve him of blame?

If the patch goes in as scheduled those people live.

Boeing also needs to answer for the defect.

While the shutdown was a factor there were other factors that played a more prominent role in the delay. The problem falls primarily on Boeing and the FAA for the problem and the delay. From the OP.

But the company's software update had initially been expected in early January, the Journal reported.

Citing people familiar with the details, the Journal reported that discussions between the FAA and Boeing about the software fix dragged on, in part because of "differences of opinion about technical and engineering issues."

Boeing and FAA officials also couldn't agree on how extensive the software enhancement should be, the newspaper reported. US officials also said the recent government shutdown, the longest in US history, delayed work on the update for five weeks, the Journal noted.

...

The FAA determined that the delay in the update was acceptable because its experts and Boeing deemed there was no imminent safety threat, an unnamed source briefed on the discussions told the Journal.

 

[umbrella39]

What part of "the patch would have gone out in Jan if it weren't for the government shutdown" makes this post clickbait??

and then there is this part, too:

On an earnings call in April 2017, Boeing's CEO Muilenburg was asked how deregulation early in Trump's term affected the company.
Muilenburg replied that "the administration has been very engaged across government agencies and with industry to find ideas and ways and opportunities to simplify and streamline.

"Things like FAA certification processes is one place that we're seeing some solid progress," he said. "That's helping us more efficiently work through certification on some of our new model aircraft, such as the Max, as it's going through flight test and entering into service."
The FAA had signed off on the 737 Max 8 planes in March 2017.

Thanks Trump...

 

[Jaskalas]

So Boeing and the FAA knew there was a problem and didn't ground the planes, and this is Trumps fault.
Maybe they should have temporally disabled the piece of code that was noted as "crash and burn".

I think you are both correct and wrong to dismiss Trump's shutdown as having an impact.

They could have resolved this regardless. So...
What we are to make of that impact is quite clouded.

 

[itsmydamnation]

This is just ignorant. The 737-MAX has new avionics, new engines, revised wings, etc, etc, etc. There is a reason the program cost billions.

Yes it has all these new things shoved into a plane thats landing gear is to low and wings are to small for those awesome new engines. Boeing hasn't changed those because otherwise they cant just do a quick update for pilots as a result you end up with MACS. They cant turn it off because then no pilots are certified to fly it.

Just compare this mess to the airbus NEO's.......
i wonder how many order might cancelled for 373's and move over to an A320neo. Thax to pilots venting there thoughts on social media the average punter has far more insight into the mess the 373 now is.

 

[trenchfoot]

Trump thinking his desperate stand at "The Wall" will save his presidency and keep him from getting prosecuted if he's bounced out of office is actually having quite the opposite effect.

He's not looking at all like the "stable genius" he wants us to (incredulously) believe yet he's increasingly looking a whole lot more like the dirty scumbag crook that is running away from Mueller's long arm of the law.

 

[UNCjigga]

and then there is this part, too:

On an earnings call in April 2017, Boeing's CEO Muilenburg was asked how deregulation early in Trump's term affected the company.
Muilenburg replied that "the administration has been very engaged across government agencies and with industry to find ideas and ways and opportunities to simplify and streamline.

"Things like FAA certification processes is one place that we're seeing some solid progress," he said. "That's helping us more efficiently work through certification on some of our new model aircraft, such as the Max, as it's going through flight test and entering into service."
The FAA had signed off on the 737 Max 8 planes in March 2017.

Thanks Trump...

Hmm... interesting...
Transportation Department inspector general investigating FAA's approval of Boeing 737 Max
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/03/17/po...epartment-faa-boeing-investigation/index.html

 

[dawp]

The United States has ceded their leadership role.
.

not just aviation but on everything, just as putin wanted.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Trump thinking his desperate stand at "The Wall" will save his presidency and keep him from getting prosecuted if he's bounced out of office is actually having quite the opposite effect.

He's not looking at all like the "stable genius" he wants us to (incredulously) believe yet he's increasingly looking a whole lot more like the dirty scumbag crook that is running away from Mueller's long arm of the law.

Wrong thread or default answer to everything?

 

[brycejones]

Yes it has all these new things shoved into a plane thats landing gear is to low.

Uh, the gear was revised to maintain the same ground clearance as the previous gen 737.