Trump Scoreboard - Marketwatch

[Homerboy]

This will be blamed on the Democrats taking majority...

I was right!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1081175076727345152

 

[Bitek]

^^^Shocking, but not surprising.


Let's hope this stems the bleeding for a bit.

Unfortunately the market is driven by many factors, and to continue the rebound you would have to bet money that:

1. The other issues (eg trade war, China slowdown, potential US slowdown) are overblown or will be resolved
2. One month's job numbers are indicative of a stronger trend that will continue into the medium term future

Unfortunately I think the bump will be transitory as the other issues will drive volatility.

If anything, it further lends proof that the market would be performing much better but for the dumb orange fuckstick occupying the WH, and the losses should be directly attributed to him.

 

[Bitek]

Ok, Trump's is within the 2 min warning, how's Slow's scoreboard?

Lost 4M jobs?!!! Holy $#!+ !!!

-GDP growth has been mediocre even before 2020
- Wage growth weak
- Participation down
- Trade deficit (a pet project) exploding
- Doing nothing for student loans
- National deficit skyrocketing to levels the likes of which we've never seen. $3.1T!!!/yr
- US debt > US GDP

- DJIA has been volatile, but shit y/y last few years.

Nov 2, 2018: 25270
Nov 1, 2019: 27276
Oct 30, 2020: 26560

Lastly, how can we score coronavirus response other than a butt fumble?

 

[NWRMidnight]

Wage growth for the most part has nothing to do with Trump, as most of the wage growth is due to 24 states raising minimum wage. Example, washing states minimum wage went up 12.5%. ($12 to $13.50).

 

[Bitek]

Wage growth for the most part has nothing to do with Trump, as most of the wage growth is due to 24 states raising minimum wage. Example, washing states minimum wage went up 12.5%. ($12 to $13.50).

Very true, highly driven by state actions.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Is my memory right that the very little benefit that was in the trump tax cut for the middle class expires next year?

 

[NWRMidnight]

Is my memory right that the very little benefit that was in the trump tax cut for the middle class expires next year?

I believe it's 2025.

 

[zzyzxroad]

I believe it's 2025.

I thought the middle class stuff was right after the election. I will have to go check.

 

[zinfamous]

I thought the middle class stuff was right after the election. I will have to go check.

You might be referring to the payroll tax deferral that Trump signed a few months ago--basically "elect me or you will have to pay all those taxes back! If you do elect me...you might not?"

It is currently in effect, and some employees--notably all federal employees, and of course employers that are Chud Donnie acolytes--have subjected their employees to this blackmail from POTUS (fed has no choice).

 

[zzyzxroad]

You might be referring to the payroll tax deferral that Trump signed a few months ago--basically "elect me or you will have to pay all those taxes back! If you do elect me...you might not?"

It is currently in effect, and some employees--notably all federal employees, and of course employers that are Chud Donnie acolytes--have subjected their employees to this blackmail from POTUS (fed has no choice).

Nope I was just wrong. I had thought the expiration was sooner than 2027.

 

[Fenixgoon]

You might be referring to the payroll tax deferral that Trump signed a few months ago--basically "elect me or you will have to pay all those taxes back! If you do elect me...you might not?"

It is currently in effect, and some employees--notably all federal employees, and of course employers that are Chud Donnie acolytes--have subjected their employees to this blackmail from POTUS (fed has no choice).

My employer did not thank god. I could weather the storm but plenty of families would be thrown into financial chaos by getting a yuuuge tax bill in April

 

[Bitek]

I thought the middle class stuff was right after the election. I will have to go check.

You might be referring to the payroll tax deferral that Trump signed a few months ago--basically "elect me or you will have to pay all those taxes back! If you do elect me...you might not?"

It is currently in effect, and some employees--notably all federal employees, and of course employers that are Chud Donnie acolytes--have subjected their employees to this blackmail from POTUS (fed has no choice).

No, meaning the part of the TCJA where the middle class tax cuts expire but the corp tax cuts were made permanent.

They had a 10-year sunset for costing because they passed it under reconciliation, and it can't have a negative impact on the budget after 10 yrs under reconciliation rules.

 

[zinfamous]

No, meaning the part of the TCJA where the middle class tax cuts expire but the corp tax cuts were made permanent.

They had a 10-year sunset for costing because they passed it under reconciliation, and it can't have a negative impact on the budget after 10 yrs under reconciliation rules.

oh right, the 10 year thing. Already forgot about it (which is the entire point and exactly what we were all saying. )

 

[nickqt]

oh right, the 10 year thing. Already forgot about it (which is the entire point and exactly what we were all saying. )

You mean for people whose taxes actually take a noticeable difference out of their earnings aren't going to keep those crumbs?

You don't say.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Very true, highly driven by state actions.

Wut? You can't be serious?

You honestly think that wage growth is simply based on minimum wage laws?

Christ - some of you really need to take a business 101 course or something...

 

[Jhhnn]

Wut? You can't be serious?

You honestly think that wage growth is simply based on minimum wage laws?

Christ - some of you really need to take a business 101 course or something...

They're undeniably a part of it.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Wut? You can't be serious?

You honestly think that wage growth is simply based on minimum wage laws?

Christ - some of you really need to take a business 101 course or something...

Nobody said it was simply based on minimum wage laws. That is your reading comprehension failing you. The facts show that lower class bracket received the highest wage growth, with the top bracket (the rich) receiving the next highest, and the actual middle class receiving the least. But when the minimum wage goes up in 24 states out of 50, it sure as hell is going to have an effect on wage growth for a number of reasons.

 

[Thump553]

Is my memory right that the very little benefit that was in the trump tax cut for the middle class expires next year?

Depends on how you look at it:

-- if you think an initial income boost of a few hundred a year was good, that's a benefit

--if you think adding 2.3 trillion dollars in debt was good-debt that will be a financial millstone around the necks of taxpayers for decades to come was good, then well you are crazy.

BTW the Trump tax cuts expire only for us peons. They are permanent for corporations and the billionaires. Unless they are repealed and replaced, to use a GOP phrase.

 

[darkswordsman17]

No, meaning the part of the TCJA where the middle class tax cuts expire but the corp tax cuts were made permanent.

They had a 10-year sunset for costing because they passed it under reconciliation, and it can't have a negative impact on the budget after 10 yrs under reconciliation rules.

Which is the poison pill they were looking for to cut everything they could. That means the middle class is gonna get fucked twice, once via paying for the rich to get richer, and then again after the costs for lots of shit goes up because Republicans try to gut public funding for as much as they can.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Nope I was just wrong. I had thought the expiration was sooner than 2027.

Actually, you where partially correct about 2021. I came across an article this morning that the tax breaks that expire in 2027, actually do it incrementally between 2021 and 2027. It's an opinion based in the fact that they are claiming that it is it's Republican's who are raising taxes on the middle class, but the facts about the incremental increases based on income level, are not opinion.

Opinion | Republicans, Not Biden, Are About to Raise Your Taxes (Published 2020)

President Trump built in tax increases beginning in 2021, for nearly everyone but those at the very top.

www.nytimes.com

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Actually, you where partially correct about 2021. I came across an article this morning that the tax breaks that expire in 2027, actually do it incrementally between 2021 and 2027. It's an opinion based in the fact that they are claiming that it is it's Republican's who are raising taxes on the middle class, but the facts about the incremental increases based on income level, are not opinion.

Opinion | Republicans, Not Biden, Are About to Raise Your Taxes (Published 2020)

President Trump built in tax increases beginning in 2021, for nearly everyone but those at the very top.

www.nytimes.com

I'm searching all over this article for what mystical change is going to happen in 2021 concerning the TCJA. I'm not finding where they are citing some kind of change - care to enlighten me?

The Tax brackets are going up yearly (as they always do for inflation)
The tax rates are staying the same for the tax brackets
The standard deduction is going up yearly (as they always do for inflation)
None of the standard lower to middle class tax credits/deductions (such as the child tax credit) is being altered.

There is literally nothing that is increasing taxes for lower to middle income people in 2021.

2021 Tax Brackets

What are the 2021 tax brackets? Explore 2021 federal income tax brackets and federal income tax rates. Also: child tax credit and earned income tax credit

taxfoundation.org

 

[fskimospy]

I'm searching all over this article for what mystical change is going to happen in 2021 concerning the TCJA. I'm not finding where they are citing some kind of change - care to enlighten me?

The Tax brackets are going up yearly (as they always do for inflation)
The tax rates are staying the same for the tax brackets
The standard deduction is going up yearly (as they always do for inflation)
None of the standard lower to middle class tax credits/deductions (such as the child tax credit) is being altered.

There is literally nothing that is increasing taxes for lower to middle income people in 2021.

2021 Tax Brackets

What are the 2021 tax brackets? Explore 2021 federal income tax brackets and federal income tax rates. Also: child tax credit and earned income tax credit

taxfoundation.org

While I don’t care about the specific year you do agree that long term the Trump ‘tax cuts’ mean higher taxes for most people, right? I mean if nothing else the changed inflation estimate to chained CPI for tax brackets is a lifelong tax increase for people who make their money through wages.

It is hard to think of a bigger failure of tax policy than the TCJA. It was just a smash and grab for rich people.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

While I don’t care about the specific year you do agree that long term the Trump ‘tax cuts’ mean higher taxes for most people, right? I mean if nothing else the changed inflation estimate to chained CPI for tax brackets is a lifelong tax increase for people who make their money through wages.

It is hard to think of a bigger failure of tax policy than the TCJA. It was just a smash and grab for rich people.

Our business taxes VASTLY needed reformation to keep up with and be competitive with other countries. Was this the right choice? I don't know - I'm not a business tax expert. But just take a look at any western country and the general trend is the lowering of business taxation and an increase in consumer taxes such as a VAT.

This isn't questionable - it's a fact and general trend across the globe of developed nations.







On the subject of Individual taxes - Part of me likes and part of me doesn't like the expiration. I mean, part of it isn't so much a "tax increase" but simply a return to what was there previously. Almost like a "temporary discount". Regardless, I don't like this way of lowering taxes by holding individual americans feet to the fire every 10 years. I DO however agree with it in the sense that we SHOULD be reforming taxes on a regular basis - and every 10 years seems reasonable. Which we all know is what will happen when they are near expiration. Another tax reform will be passed. Prior to the TCJA (in 2017) I think the last major tax reform was in... 1986 with Reagan?


I don't want to steer too off-topic from my original question of demanding WHAT that article is saying is changing in 2021 that affects the average taxpayer. Because that just looks like a delicious cup of bullshit fake news.

 

[zinfamous]

Our business taxes VASTLY needed reformation to keep up with and be competitive with other countries. Was this the right choice? I don't know - I'm not a business tax expert. But just take a look at any western country and the general trend is the lowering of business taxation and an increase in consumer taxes such as a VAT.

This isn't questionable - it's a fact and general trend across the globe of developed nations.

View attachment 32729
View attachment 32730




On the subject of Individual taxes - Part of me likes and part of me doesn't like the expiration. I mean, part of it isn't so much a "tax increase" but simply a return to what was there previously. Almost like a "temporary discount". Regardless, I don't like this way of lowering taxes by holding individual americans feet to the fire every 10 years. I DO however agree with it in the sense that we SHOULD be reforming taxes on a regular basis - and every 10 years seems reasonable. Which we all know is what will happen when they are near expiration. Another tax reform will be passed. Prior to the TCJA (in 2017) I think the last major tax reform was in... 1986 with Reagan?


I don't want to steer too off-topic from my original question of demanding WHAT that article is saying is changing in 2021 that affects the average taxpayer. Because that just looks like a delicious cup of bullshit fake news.

How many countries are part of that OECD average? like, I'd like to see the individual data points that make up that average (I trust basically...no data that doesn't show individual data points).

In that chart, US looks like it could be the average of what could be extremely high tax rates and extremely low tax rates within that average. At least, one could just as easily make that argument without seeing the data. Or at the very least, you have a few massive outliers that are biasing that average way out of normal. (not saying that's the case...just why few people care to discuss averages if they are taking things seriously).

So yeah, obviously the overall trend is dropping, but what we do know is that a lot of developed nations suddenly came into being, like UAB and such during that trend, that have preposterously low, unsustainable self-destructive tax rates (because they think a commodity economy is sustainable, lol), that are likely influencing, if not the only reason, for that declining trend. I know that in much of Europe, the rate is much higher than in the US.

Simply put: this is a case where the trend in the median rate over the years is more informative. ...and I'd like to see individual countries with colored dots, so that you see when new ones are added from year to year.

 

[fskimospy]

Our business taxes VASTLY needed reformation to keep up with and be competitive with other countries. Was this the right choice? I don't know - I'm not a business tax expert. But just take a look at any western country and the general trend is the lowering of business taxation and an increase in consumer taxes such as a VAT.

This isn't questionable - it's a fact and general trend across the globe of developed nations.

View attachment 32729
View attachment 32730




On the subject of Individual taxes - Part of me likes and part of me doesn't like the expiration. I mean, part of it isn't so much a "tax increase" but simply a return to what was there previously. Almost like a "temporary discount". Regardless, I don't like this way of lowering taxes by holding individual americans feet to the fire every 10 years. I DO however agree with it in the sense that we SHOULD be reforming taxes on a regular basis - and every 10 years seems reasonable. Which we all know is what will happen when they are near expiration. Another tax reform will be passed. Prior to the TCJA (in 2017) I think the last major tax reform was in... 1986 with Reagan?


I don't want to steer too off-topic from my original question of demanding WHAT that article is saying is changing in 2021 that affects the average taxpayer. Because that just looks like a delicious cup of bullshit fake news.

Forget the expiration, it is a long term tax INCREASE on wage earners. In the end it is a tax increase in probably 80-90% of Americans so that we can cut taxes for rich people.

As far as our corporate taxes go this is about as misleading as only including federal income tax rate in a discussion about individual taxes. Our top rate may have been super high but the EFFECTIVE rate was not. It was higher than average but not crazily so.

FACT CHECK: Does The U.S. Have The Highest Corporate Tax Rate In The World?

Yes, the U.S. does have the highest corporate tax rate ... but that doesn't mean businesses always pay it.

www.npr.org

By the way I agree with a move towards VAT and away from income taxes for both individuals and corporations but our corporate tax code sucks because of how complicated it is and this didn’t fix that.

The idea was that this tax cut was supposed to spur business investment and it just didn’t. It was an expensive failure.