Trump probably shot at a rally -- Still a jerk

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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,819
33,834
136
It is sad and bad for future governance that Biden took the hit for the Afghanistan withdrawal. The lesson I would learn as a president is that I should keep doing what Obama and Trump did - pouring money and lives into a losing effort instead of acknowledging reality.
Exactly. Biden withdrew from Afghanistan in the best possible manner. Any other manner of withdraw would have resulted in more American deaths. Since the withdraw was executed, precisely zero American troops have died in Afghanistan, a wildly successful outcome. The naysayers never tell us how many American troops they were willing to see killed to achieve a different outcome.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,142
10,039
136
Exactly. Biden withdrew from Afghanistan in the best possible manner. Any other manner of withdraw would have resulted in more American deaths. Since the withdraw was executed, precisely zero American troops have died in Afghanistan, a wildly successful outcome. The naysayers never tell us how many American troops they were willing to see killed to achieve a different outcome.

Could probably quibble over the technicalities of the withdrawal, but the difference in outcomes between the different ways that process could have been managed would be insignificant compared to the difference between staying in indefinitely and finally accepting the reality of the situation.

The opprobrium should be directed at all those (on whichever political team) who supported going in there in the first place.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,142
10,039
136
Quite a few things I didn't know, in this article. It's sort-of-indirectly about the subject of this thread, but there are interesting tangents in there.

Didn't know Trump had a connection to Roy Cohn (is that the same guy who was McCarthy's right-hand man?) nor that there exists a movie about that connection.

Nor did I know that the Republican Party platform contains a pledge to create a new federal agency to defend Christian nationalism: “To protect Religious Liberty, Republicans support a new Federal Task Force on Fighting Anti-Christian Bias that will investigate all forms of illegal discrimination, harassment, and persecution against Christians in America.”

Is that Constitutional? Can the state institutionalise the "protection" - by which I suspect they mean "dominance" - of one religion specifically?


 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,935
55,288
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Quite a few things I didn't know, in this article. It's sort-of-indirectly about the subject of this thread, but there are interesting tangents in there.

Didn't know Trump had a connection to Roy Cohn (is that the same guy who was McCarthy's right-hand man?) nor that there exists a movie about that connection.
Same guy! He was also an infamous mob lawyer. Fun fact - he died of AIDS and when he was dying Trump refused to see him. Just like with everyone else, Trump cast him aside when he was no longer useful.
Nor did I know that the Republican Party platform contains a pledge to create a new federal agency to defend Christian nationalism: “To protect Religious Liberty, Republicans support a new Federal Task Force on Fighting Anti-Christian Bias that will investigate all forms of illegal discrimination, harassment, and persecution against Christians in America.”

Is that Constitutional? Can the state institutionalise the "protection" - by which I suspect they mean "dominance" - of one religion specifically?


Would it be unconstitutional for the federal government to establish an agency explicitly designed to advance the interests of a specific religion? Of course!

SCOTUS response:

SameGameTwice.gif
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,866
3,297
136
Quite a few things I didn't know, in this article. It's sort-of-indirectly about the subject of this thread, but there are interesting tangents in there.

Didn't know Trump had a connection to Roy Cohn (is that the same guy who was McCarthy's right-hand man?) nor that there exists a movie about that connection.

Nor did I know that the Republican Party platform contains a pledge to create a new federal agency to defend Christian nationalism: “To protect Religious Liberty, Republicans support a new Federal Task Force on Fighting Anti-Christian Bias that will investigate all forms of illegal discrimination, harassment, and persecution against Christians in America.”

Is that Constitutional? Can the state institutionalise the "protection" - by which I suspect they mean "dominance" - of one religion specifically?



i have no idea how anyone can be unaware of the Trump/Cohn connection. Cohn was Trump's mentor and the person who taught Trump all the shit he continues to pull off.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,342
32,955
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Quite a few things I didn't know, in this article. It's sort-of-indirectly about the subject of this thread, but there are interesting tangents in there.

Didn't know Trump had a connection to Roy Cohn (is that the same guy who was McCarthy's right-hand man?) nor that there exists a movie about that connection.

Nor did I know that the Republican Party platform contains a pledge to create a new federal agency to defend Christian nationalism: “To protect Religious Liberty, Republicans support a new Federal Task Force on Fighting Anti-Christian Bias that will investigate all forms of illegal discrimination, harassment, and persecution against Christians in America.”

Is that Constitutional? Can the state institutionalise the "protection" - by which I suspect they mean "dominance" - of one religion specifically?


Much like the Bible, conservatives pick and choose which parts of The Constitution are VERY IMPORTANT and which parts are disposable purely by how useful it is to them in the moment.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
29,852
30,625
136
Quite a few things I didn't know, in this article. It's sort-of-indirectly about the subject of this thread, but there are interesting tangents in there.

Didn't know Trump had a connection to Roy Cohn (is that the same guy who was McCarthy's right-hand man?) nor that there exists a movie about that connection.

Nor did I know that the Republican Party platform contains a pledge to create a new federal agency to defend Christian nationalism: “To protect Religious Liberty, Republicans support a new Federal Task Force on Fighting Anti-Christian Bias that will investigate all forms of illegal discrimination, harassment, and persecution against Christians in America.”

Is that Constitutional? Can the state institutionalise the "protection" - by which I suspect they mean "dominance" - of one religion specifically?


Yep his daddy thought he wasn’t shitty enough so he hired Cohn to teach little Donnie how to be a royal asshole.

In traditional American jurisprudence the answer would be no. With the current Christo fascists on the court? Fuck yeah it’s what the founding fathers wanted! There is a deep historical record that they wanted a de facto state religion.

/s
 
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eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,334
5,487
136
Whoa he researched both conventions. So his end goal was total chaos and not exclusive to one side
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,155
15,577
136
Additionally, inflation was lower in the US than most (all?) other countries which means Biden (and the Fed) did a better job controlling it than any other world leaders.

The Taliban that immediately rose up during the withdrawal were mostly comprised of the 5000 Taliban Trump released in exchange for nothing.
Indeed seems like Bidenomics pulled it off no 2nd Great Depression...Which is probably one of his biggest achievements that will get no recognition in the history books. Real politicians dont do it for the fame though.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,726
10,028
136
Is that Constitutional? Can the state institutionalise the "protection" - by which I suspect they mean "dominance" - of one religion specifically?
The Constitution is whatever we say it is.
Always has been.

Ask the SCOTUS.
 

ondma

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2018
3,310
1,697
136
Yea, but you can't chant it, so half of america is none the wiser.
I agree, a lot is not under Biden's control. However, he is not completely blame free. The administration waited far to long to counteract inflation, continuing to say it was a "temporary" problem and would go away, as it was steadily rising. As for the border, yes, congressional action is needed, but just a few weeks after he said he could do nothing without congress, he penned an executive order to infact close the border after a certain number of crossings per day. So which is it?

In any case, the Reps are very effectively spreading FUD about these issues, and in perhaps his most critical weakness, which I did not mention, he is frail, a horrible speaker at his best, and even worse now, and has no charisma. These make him very ineffective at countering the Rep bull****. If the Dems had a popular, moderate candidate, I would say they should replace Joe in a heartbeat. As it is though, I really dont know what they should do. Biden is undoubtedly a weak candidate, but any possible replacements except Michelle Obama have polled worse than Biden.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,749
20,323
146
I agree, a lot is not under Biden's control. However, he is not completely blame free. The administration waited far to long to counteract inflation, continuing to say it was a "temporary" problem and would go away, as it was steadily rising. As for the border, yes, congressional action is needed, but just a few weeks after he said he could do nothing without congress, he penned an executive order to infact close the border after a certain number of crossings per day. So which is it?

In any case, the Reps are very effectively spreading FUD about these issues, and in perhaps his most critical weakness, which I did not mention, he is frail, a horrible speaker at his best, and even worse now, and has no charisma. These make him very ineffective at countering the Rep bull****. If the Dems had a popular, moderate candidate, I would say they should replace Joe in a heartbeat. As it is though, I really dont know what they should do. Biden is undoubtedly a weak candidate, but any possible replacements except Michelle Obama have polled worse than Biden.

It’s easy to spread the FUD when you voters just want 3 word sound bytes and someone to hate
 
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outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
4,395
3,812
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Last edited:

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
4,395
3,812
136

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,259
4,035
136
Exactly. Biden withdrew from Afghanistan in the best possible manner. Any other manner of withdraw would have resulted in more American deaths. Since the withdraw was executed, precisely zero American troops have died in Afghanistan, a wildly successful outcome. The naysayers never tell us how many American troops they were willing to see killed to achieve a different outcome.
I'm sorry but this is horseshit revisionism that it was done in a "best" fashion. I fully support Biden's decision to finally withdraw. It was the right policy, and his arms were tied by Trump announcing it without having any plan. Didn't DJT want to invite the Taliban to Camp David for a signing ceremony? Around the 9/11 anniversary no less LOL

The problem is that the Biden administration also had an unrealistic plan. It is well chronicled that we just assumed the AF government would stand up as we stood down and left. We closed Bagram Airfield long before the withdrawal date, and just assumed things were stable. That summer there were signs that the Taliban was ready to pounce, but we didn't really react to it. Later when the shit hit the fan, we had to pivot to military evac of tens of thousands. This part went about as well as you could expect under difficult circumstances.

IIRC the week before we burned all the documents at the U.S. Embassy in Kabul, the State Dept. was still claiming the embassy was staying open. In hindsight, the withdrawal was always going to be difficult but let's not BS and say it couldn't have gone better. To be clear, I'm not agreeing with GQP talking points on the AF withdrawal because as usual, they are lying sacks of shit.