Trump new healthcare plan: 'We'll let Obamacare fail'

[Geekbabe]

What I believe is that you are doing someone a grave disservice when you make them depend on you for their needs. They would be better served when they learn to depend on themselves for their needs. What the saddest part is that the Democrats have gotten so many addicted to the government dole many will suffer in the undoing.

60 yr old Stage IV cancer patient still struggling to get up & go to work. I wish I could depend on myself more to meet my needs. Unfortunately overtime & a second job is out cause walking gets a little rough at times.

I will tell you that if I become uninsurable due to lifetime limits coming back, there won't be any point in working anymore.Fast tracked SSDI here I come! What I will do for healthcare involves an RX for 90 Seconal when my pain becomes too great to bear.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Unlike a lot of posters in here, I do not blow up smoke out of my butt. I do have well know sources to back up my assertions/statements.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-education-in-one-map/?utm_term=.d990ccd99f42



http://wtop.com/dc/2015/07/study-d-c-ranks-near-bottom-u-s-school-systems/

Not just one example. I have more if you need to see it.

Wapo links to wallethub, and this is third paragraph

"That isn’t to say that money doesn’t help. According to an Economic Policy Institute report, income is higher in states where the workforce is well educated and thus more productive. In turn, workers with better earnings contribute greater taxes to beef up state budgets over the long run."

That EPI article is linked in there.


What would speculate as a solution to our dilemna?

 

[pcgeek11]

60 yr old Stage IV cancer patient still struggling to get up & go to work. I wish I could depend on myself more to meet my needs. Unfortunately overtime & a second job is out cause walking gets a little rough at times.

I will tell you that if I become uninsurable due to lifetime limits coming back, there won't be any point in working anymore.Fast tracked SSDI here I come! What I will do for healthcare involves an RX for 90 Seconal when my pain becomes too great to bear.

Sorry for your issues. Nobody should have to suffer that.

I am not and no one should include someone in your position as being addicted to the government dole. As your age and you are still working I assume from your post. Going on SSDI is not an issue in your case being you paid into SS your entire working life.

I wish for you only the best.

 

[J.Wilkins]

There isn't a lack of money going into our school systems.

There may be a lack of money for other reasons. Eliminate the school boards and institute one national standard for public schools and schools that are receiving public funding.

Move all funding away from private entities that profits while not meeting the standards and invest it into public schools.

Invest in teachers, both by raising their wages and improving their education.

 

[Svnla]

Wapo links to wallethub, and this is third paragraph

"That isn’t to say that money doesn’t help. According to an Economic Policy Institute report, income is higher in states where the workforce is well educated and thus more productive. In turn, workers with better earnings contribute greater taxes to beef up state budgets over the long run."

That EPI article is linked in there.


What would speculate as a solution to our dilemna?

The point is not about whether money is needed. The point is can't just dump more money and expect the result to be better just because.

Look at Alaska, top 5 spending (#2) but bottom 5 in achievement (last). Therefore, more money =! better students in schools.

Solution? How about let look at the top 10 school districts and see what did they do right before we shovel more money into the bottomless pit?

 

[brycejones]

The point is not about whether money is needed. The point is can't just dump more money and expect the result to be better just because.

Look at Alaska, top 5 spending (#2) but bottom 5 in achievement (last). Therefore, more money =! better students in schools.

Solution? How about let look at the top 10 school districts and see what did they do right before we shovel more money into the bottomless pit?

Really a subject for a different thread. But rural districts spend far more per student because they have higher transportation costs and just aren't able to achieve the same economies of scale in areas such as administration, real estate, specialized staffing for areas like special ed that districts in more densely populated areas can.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The point is not about whether money is needed. The point is can't just dump more money and expect the result to be better just because.

Look at Alaska, top 5 spending (#2) but bottom 5 in achievement (last). Therefore, more money =! better students in schools.

Solution? How about let look at the top 10 school districts and see what did they do right before we shovel more money into the bottomless pit?

So you don't really have an alternate solution.

In my towns district, money is definitely an huge issue

 

[Svnla]

So you don't really have an alternate solution.

In my towns district, money is definitely an huge issue

See what I wrote... "How about let look at the top 10 school districts and see what did they do right before we shovel more money into the bottomless pit".

From my links above, why Mass is doing a lot better than DC while Mass is not spending as much? Let ponder about that for a little bit.

Again, did I say money is not important? Nope, nada,zip. What I said before and I will say it again. Pouring more money =! better student achievements/results. Data speak for themselves.

That's my point to counter your point of "You want people not dependant on government as adults, then pour more money into them as children and youth by way of education."

You did not say anything about alternative solution in that post.

 

[fskimospy]

See what I wrote... "How about let look at the top 10 school districts and see what did they do right before we shovel more money into the bottomless pit".

From my links above, why Mass is doing a lot better than DC while Mass is not spending as much? Let ponder about that for a little bit.

Again, did I say money is not important? Nope, nada,zip. What I said before and I will say it again. Pouring more money =! better student achievements/results. Data speak for themselves.

That's my point to counter your point of "You want people not dependant on government as adults, then pour more money into them as children and youth by way of education."

Your data absolutely does not speak for itself because nothing in it is accounting for racial and income disparities between regions. DC public schools serve an overwhelmingly poor/minority population, a group with vastly different (and often vastly more expensive) needs than the average student in Massachusetts. If we want to ponder the differences, that's by far the biggest one. If you read the academic literature on improving student achievement you'll see that the results of district interventions are swamped by student demographics, meaning what the top 10 school districts likely 'did' more than anything else is have an affluent white/asian student body.

This is why using data can be so dangerous, if you don't have larger context to ground your analysis in you can make some really bad inferences.

 

[Svnla]

Your data absolutely does not speak for itself because nothing in it is accounting for racial and income disparities between regions. DC public schools serve an overwhelmingly poor/minority population, a group with vastly different (and often vastly more expensive) needs than the average student in Massachusetts. If we want to ponder the differences, that's by far the biggest one. If you read the academic literature on improving student achievement you'll see that the results of district interventions are swamped by student demographics, meaning what the top 10 school districts likely 'did' more than anything else is have an affluent white/asian student body.

This is why using data can be so dangerous, if you don't have larger context to ground your analysis in you can make some really bad inferences.

Bring the race card and more excuses to the table, eh? Color me shock, not.

Miss is a poor state, full of minorities, spend less than DC (not even HALF of DC) yet the students are doing better than DC. Not great as Mass, but not last or 2nd to last.

Yes, let pour more money = problems solved, right? (sarcastic)

 

[ch33zw1z]

See what I wrote... "How about let look at the top 10 school districts and see what did they do right before we shovel more money into the bottomless pit".

From my links above, why Mass is doing a lot better than DC while Mass is not spending as much? Let ponder about that for a little bit.

Again, did I say money is not important? Nope, nada,zip. What I said before and I will say it again. Pouring more money =! better student achievements/results. Data speak for themselves.

That's my point to counter your point of "You want people not dependant on government as adults, then pour more money into them as children and youth by way of education."

You did not say anything about alternative solution in that post.

I'm from MA. Each district is different. Mine needs money to provide services to students. We're not a wealthy area, compared to eastern ma.

From you own article, more money can't hurt.

Treating students like corporate employees is a poor way of teaching, and that's exactly what's going on.

 

[fskimospy]

Bring the race card and more excuses to the table, eh? Color me shock, not.

Yes, let pour more money = problems solved, right? (sarcastic)

'The race card' shows just how little you know about this issue, further proving my point that you shouldn't talk about things you don't understand and how you REALLY shouldn't try to use educational data to talk about something you don't understand. Poorer educational performance by black and hispanic students is an empirically tested fact. The effect of poverty on student achievement is an empirically tested fact. (of course the correlation between the two is extremely high, so there's that) This has nothing to do with excuses, this has to do with established reality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_achievement_gap_in_the_United_States

If you're trying to pretend that those factors don't exist then you were never interested in what the data said to begin with.

 

[Svnla]

'The race card' shows just how little you know about this issue, further proving my point that you shouldn't talk about things you don't understand and how you REALLY shouldn't try to use educational data to talk about something you don't understand. Poorer educational performance by black and hispanic students is an empirically tested fact. The effect of poverty on student achievement is an empirically tested fact. (of course the correlation between the two is extremely high, so there's that) This has nothing to do with excuses, this has to do with established reality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_achievement_gap_in_the_United_States

If you're trying to pretend that those factors don't exist then you were never interested in what the data said to begin with.

I just edit my post so I will put it here.

Miss is a poor state, full of minorities, spends less than DC (not even HALF of DC) yet the students are doing better than DC. Not great as Mass, but not last or 2nd to last as DC.

Minority, check.
Poor, check. (Last time I check, Miss is the poorest state in the Union)
Spend less, check.
Do better, check.

But hey, let pour even more money into sucky schools ...because of reason.

Hummmmm.....

I'm from MA. Each district is different. Mine needs money to provide services to students. We're not a wealthy area, compared to eastern ma.

From you own article, more money can't hurt.

Treating students like corporate employees is a poor way of teaching, and that's exactly what's going on.

Now, I do not want you to misunderstand me so let me make it absolutely clear.

Yes ,we should spend money on our schools and each school district/area is unique and different. No argument from me there.

No, we should not continue to pour money after money into sucky schools for the same sucky results just because...and then expect different results. That's my POINT.



I

 

[fskimospy]

I just edit my post so I will put it here.

Miss is a poor state, full of minorities, spend less than DC (not even HALF of DC) yet the students are doing better than DC. Not great as Mass, but not last or 2nd to last as DC.

Minority, check.
Poor, check.
Spend less, check.
Do better, check.

But hey, let pour even more money ...because of reason.

Hummmmm.....

From a quick check about 52 percent of students in Mississippi are black or Hispanic.

https://ballotpedia.org/Public_education_in_Mississippi#Demographics

82 percent of D.C. students are black or Hispanic.

https://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment

30 point gap = the same. Lol.

I would have to look for poverty data but due to wealthy people selecting out of D.C. schools I bet their poverty rate for students is a good bit higher too.

So again, why are you talking things you have no knowledge of?

 

[Svnla]

From a quick check about 52 percent of students in Mississippi are black or Hispanic.

https://ballotpedia.org/Public_education_in_Mississippi#Demographics

82 percent of D.C. students are black or Hispanic.

https://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment

30 point gap = the same. Lol.

I would have to look for poverty data but due to wealthy people selecting out of D.C. schools I bet their poverty rate for students is a good bit higher too.

So again, why are you talking things you have no knowledge of?

Where did I say they are the same? I said Miss is a poor state, the poorest one. Feel free to pick out my exact words that both of them (Miss and DC) are the same as you claimed. LOL.

Funny how you spin around and say wealthy people selecting out of DC.

Pick and choose to fit your agenda, eh?

So again, tell me why continue to do the same thing and expect different result? You do know a lot about that, eh?

Let spend more and more, because of reason. Full speed ahead. Things will get better because of more money and more...right? Uh huh.

 

[fskimospy]

Where did I say they are the same? I said Miss is a poor state, the poorest one. Feel free to pick out my exact words that both of them are the same as you claimed. LOL.

If you aren't trying to say their student demographics are comparable then your statements about better results are pointless.

I apologize for assuming you were trying to make a coherent point. Lol.

Funny how you spin around and say wealthy people selecting out of DC.

Pick and choose the fit your agenda, eh?

Uhm, since you're trying to compare public school results it makes sense to compare demographic data for only the students in public schools. Since D.C. has a lot of really wealthy people my suspicion is that they send kids to private schools at disproportionately high rates.

I'm surprised that had to be explained or how any rational person could think that was cherry picking. If anything doing it any other way would be invalid.

So again, tell me why continue to do the same thing and expect different result? You do know a lot about that, eh?

I have no idea how that even relates to our conversation. You tried to draw conclusions from woefully inadequate data and then say it spoke for itself. I am simply telling you that's ridiculous and you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

 

[fskimospy]

Also just checked income and poverty, first the cost of living in DC is close to double the cost of living in Mississippi so the complaints about double the spending are almost entirely eliminated right there. Second, while MS has about 10% higher proportion of students on free/reduced lunch that's based on FPL, meaning comparable cost of living isn't included.

So while Mississippi might be the poorest state in absolute terms, in terms of income relative to cost of living students in DC on average are likely MUCH poorer.

So now that the spending gap has been shown to be mostly spurious and the student demographics point has been shown to be crap I'm sure you'll change your mind. (Haha I kid, I'm sure you won't.)

 

[agent00f]

Not a single one of his posts in this thread has been on topic nor anything more than personal attack.

He & Agent00f really need to get a room & sort it out...

Just a heads up your butthurt isn't any less transparent than his.

 

[agent00f]

Probably my fault. The democrats lost when their massive politically superior positions and claims of how superior they are alienated all the deplorables they tried to run into the ground to win, and who turned around and said f your intellectual superiority and voted for Trump. Once that happened all that ugliness and contempt behind that superiority came oozing out like the entrails of a gutted fish. We finally got to see why liberals hold conservatives in contempt. So many of them, while politically different, are emotionally just like so many of them, full of contempt and hate.

Now that's all well and good unless you point it out to them and I have. When you hold up a mirror to the saintly face of the morally gifted and the intellectually superior and it looks like everything they think they are morally superior to and intellectually gifted beyond, they are not very happy about what they see. They hate themselves so much for it in fact, they will continue to throw elections and have their little pouty tantrums like the emotionally damaged children that they are, anything rather than face who they are.

The massive gift that Donald Trump has given us in his imperviousness to moral shame, is to catalyze all the ugly violence generated by impotent rage. So many of those sweet and beautiful people are have taken to revealing they are monsters themselves.

Not all liberals of course. To be a liberal is to have a better chance that your emotions will not override your reason, but, as we can easily see, like when a stick pokes into dog shit, some don't pass the smell test. And of course, not all conservatives either, but the capacity to see the other as like yourself, while hating who you are, will not happen for some ever or for others until the bottom out. So the question is how many more elections do we have to lose to do that. We need more mirrors. Do you want the job? 😉 It's not so bad a job if you have a garden and know what to do with shit. P & N is a zoo full of shit throwing apes. Good place to burn off ego.

Hilariously pouty tantrum when liberals don't care for your religious crackpot. Better luck with the degens like your new mentor trump.

 

[Svnla]

If you aren't trying to say their student demographics are comparable then your statements about better results are pointless.

I apologize for assuming you were trying to make a coherent point. Lol.



Uhm, since you're trying to compare public school results it makes sense to compare demographic data for only the students in public schools. Since D.C. has a lot of really wealthy people my suspicion is that they send kids to private schools at disproportionately high rates.

I'm surprised that had to be explained or how any rational person could think that was cherry picking. If anything doing it any other way would be invalid.



I have no idea how that even relates to our conversation. You tried to draw conclusions from woefully inadequate data and then say it spoke for itself. I am simply telling you that's ridiculous and you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Still NOTHING about me said Miss and DC are the same as you claimed? Uh huh. So much for honesty. LOL.

I am not going around with your spin but I am going to put this here.

Since you pulled the blacks/hispanics and being poor excuses, then for the sake of argument, let say those are valid...but then.

Alaska ($18,175)
Mississippi ($8,130), again less than half of AK.

AK = worse, even worse than DC. MS - not as bad.

So what is it now? Still using full of blacks/hispanics and being poor as excuses? Coherent you said?

Spin baby spin. Because of too many polar bears in AK, too close to Russia, too much oil fume? LOL.

I am sure you will find a way to spin to make you look good. Keep up the good work.

 

[IronWing]

Two very expensive localities spend more on education than is spent in a dirt cheap locality? Say it ain't so.

 

[fskimospy]

Still NOTHING about me said Miss and DC are the same as you claimed? Uh huh. So much for honesty. LOL.

I am not going around with your spin but I am going to put this here.

Since you pulled the blacks/hispanics and being poor excuses, then for the sake of argument, let say those are valid...but then.

Alaska ($18,175)
Mississippi ($8,130), again less than half of AK.

AK = worse, even worse than DC. MS - not as bad.

So what is it now? Still using full of blacks/hispanics and being poor as excuses? Coherent you said?

Spin baby spin. Because of too many polar bears in AK? LOL.

I am sure you will find a way to spin to make you look good. Keep up the good work.

Again, you were trying to compare Mississippi and D.C. if you weren't implying they were roughly equal in those respects then your comparison was stupid. This isn't complicated.

As already covered in this thread Alaska's education costs are extremely high for basically the same reason their health care costs are extremely high, their remote, rural population.

http://www.ktva.com/report-alaska-among-top-5-in-education-spending-per-student-220/

Why are you still talking about something you have no understanding of? This is embarrassing.

 

[Svnla]

Again, you were trying to compare Mississippi and D.C. if you weren't implying they were roughly equal in those respects then your comparison was stupid. This isn't complicated.

As already covered in this thread Alaska's education costs are extremely high for basically the same reason their health care costs are extremely high, their remote, rural population.

http://www.ktva.com/report-alaska-among-top-5-in-education-spending-per-student-220/

Why are you still talking about something you have no understanding of? This is embarrassing.

Still NOTHING that I said "the same" as you claimed? Uh huh. Of course because I did not say it.

Ok, so now it is something else. Of course, not suitable to use the because full of blacks/hispanics and being so poor anymore. Let switch to something else. Hey I could use the far away (comparing to DC), and rural area/population as my excuses too, right? LOL @ you. Let use this metric/measurement/data for this argument but let use something else when it is no longer suitable for your agenda.

Spin baby spin. Goodness.

Enough of off topic from the thread. I will summarize my point. I rather try something different because after years and years of spending money and more money and with the same crappy results. It is just me, I reckon.

 

[fskimospy]

Still NOTHING that I said "the same" as you claimed? Uh huh. Of course because I did not say it.

Then your comparison was invalid, genius, haha. This isn't any better for you.

Lol.

Ok, so now it is something else. Of course, not suitable to use the because full of blacks/hispanics and being so poor anymore. Let switch to something else. Hey I could use the far away (comparing to DC), and rural area/population as my excuses too, right?

Spin baby spin. Goodness.

Yes, shockingly enough more than one thing affects the cost of education. I'm sure everyone is blown away by this realization.

As for your 'excuses'...lolwut. Now you're mixing up student achievement variables with cost variables. Are you drunk or something?

Enough of off topic from the thread. I will summarize my point. I rather try something different because after years and years of spending money and more money and with the same crappy results. It is just me, I reckon.

You are clearly not even remotely well informed enough to have an intelligent opinion on this. I would rather have the slightest clue of what I'm talking about before forming an opinion on something. It's just me I reckon. 😉

 

[Jhhnn]

Just a heads up your butthurt isn't any less transparent than his.

Hilariously pouty tantrum when liberals don't care for your religious crackpot. Better luck with the degens like your new mentor trump.

Pouty? The lack of self awareness on your part is remarkable.