News Trump: Mar-a-Lago just raided by FBI

[Motostu]

Nm

 

[cytg111]

trump makes the bigliest, bestest legal arguments. JFC

Trump tells Mar-a-Lago special master that he got to decide which White House documents were his to keep | CNN Politics

Former President Donald Trump argued in a newly public court filing that a president gets to decide whether records from his White House are personal documents -- and that he had decided that all the records he took to Mar-a-Lago were in fact his personal property.

edition.cnn.com

Didnt he already try this???

 

[Dave_5k]

Didnt he already try this???

Repeatedly in public, but not in formal court filing that I can recall - edit: specifically, his lawyers previously claimed he might have done so, but never directly stated he had

 

[VRAMdemon]

trump makes the bigliest, bestest legal arguments. JFC

Trump tells Mar-a-Lago special master that he got to decide which White House documents were his to keep | CNN Politics

Former President Donald Trump argued in a newly public court filing that a president gets to decide whether records from his White House are personal documents -- and that he had decided that all the records he took to Mar-a-Lago were in fact his personal property.

edition.cnn.com

And ... The DOJ’s response was a combination of “nuh uh!” and an exasperated “That’s not how this works. That’s not how ANY of this works!”

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.173.0.pdf

The hypocrisy is astonishing. The thing he’s claiming falsely he could do as President is the exact thing he complained that Hillary should be sent to jail for, since Obama as President could have authorized her as his designee to steal top secret documents and wipe her ass with them.

 

[brycejones]

And ... The DOJ’s response was a combination of “nuh uh!” and an exasperated “That’s not how this works. That’s not how ANY of this works!”

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.173.0.pdf

The hypocrisy is astonishing. The thing he’s claiming falsely he could do as President is the exact thing he complained that Hillary should be sent to jail for, since Obama as President could have authorized her as his designee to steal top secret documents and wipe her ass with them.

Projection, its always projection

 

[interchange]

Trump is being influenced by Tom Fitton at Judicial Watch, a conservative activist and notably a non-lawyer considering the name of his organization. He is of the opinion that the lawsuit regarding recordings of Clinton Judicial Watch v. NARA lays precedent for Trump to claim that the things he withheld are personal records.

In reality, the finding of that lawsuit was that NARA did not possess the records in question and had no legal framework to take possession of them, so even if they agreed that the tapes qualified instead as presidential records instead of personal records, the court had no authority to order NARA to do anything about it. Notably, the Archivist in responding to the suit didn't even agree that they were presidential records in the first place: "On the facts made available to me, I do not believe the materials in question fall within the ambit of the PRA". Ultimately the court rendered no decision as to whether the tapes were validly personal records. It establishes exactly zero case law for Trump to make such a claim.

Instead, we have actual law whose text from the PRA includes the clear definition:

The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

Moreover, the text states that records

shall, to the extent practicable, be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately.

So the law is quite clear that such classified documents couldn't be designated personal, and he couldn't make such a decision capriciously at some moment far distant from the creation or receipt of those records.


Even more importantly, whether or not they are personal records has little direct implication on the legal hot water he is in. Him separating them as personal does not declassify them, and the espionage act doesn't give a flying flip if the information is deemed as a personal record. Neither would such a designation exempt him from complying with a subpoena.

 

[eelw]

Garland going to have press conference in like 30 minutes to announce a special counsel

 

[BoomerD]

Trump is being influenced by Tom Fitton at Judicial Watch, a conservative activist and notably a non-lawyer considering the name of his organization. He is of the opinion that the lawsuit regarding recordings of Clinton Judicial Watch v. NARA lays precedent for Trump to claim that the things he withheld are personal records.

In reality, the finding of that lawsuit was that NARA did not possess the records in question and had no legal framework to take possession of them, so even if they agreed that the tapes qualified instead as presidential records instead of personal records, the court had no authority to order NARA to do anything about it. Notably, the Archivist in responding to the suit didn't even agree that they were presidential records in the first place: "On the facts made available to me, I do not believe the materials in question fall within the ambit of the PRA". Ultimately the court rendered no decision as to whether the tapes were validly personal records. It establishes exactly zero case law for Trump to make such a claim.

Instead, we have actual law whose text from the PRA includes the clear definition:

Moreover, the text states that records

So the law is quite clear that such classified documents couldn't be designated personal, and he couldn't make such a decision capriciously at some moment far distant from the creation or receipt of those records.


Even more importantly, whether or not they are personal records has little direct implication on the legal hot water he is in. Him separating them as personal does not declassify them, and the espionage act doesn't give a flying flip if the information is deemed as a personal record. Neither would such a designation exempt him from complying with a subpoena.

Silly peon. Laws are for thee...not for me.

 

[fskimospy]

Garland going to have press conference in like 30 minutes to announce a special counsel

This is annoying to me as it probably delays the indictment by a month or two. Then again since they had already been laying the groundwork for one in advance maybe not.

 

[Pens1566]

This is annoying to me as it probably delays the indictment by a month or two. Then again since they had already been laying the groundwork for one in advance maybe not.

It's much more of a speed bump than you think.

 

[fskimospy]

It's much more of a speed bump than you think.

What is your basis for this?

 

[Pens1566]

What is your basis for this?

Whoever is brought in is starting from scratch. While there is existing testimony, etc., they, by design, have had nothing to do with it so far. They will have staff in the same situation. The grand jury being empaneled is entirely new. The talk is this will continue through election in '24. That's more than 1-2 months.

 

[HomerJS]

Whoever is brought in is starting from scratch. While there is existing testimony, etc., they, by design, have had nothing to do with it so far. They will have staff in the same situation. The grand jury being empaneled is entirely new. The talk is this will continue through election in '24. That's more than 1-2 months.

Indictment or completing a trial?

 

[hal2kilo]

Garland going to have press conference in like 30 minutes to announce a special counsel

Watching.

 

[HomerJS]

Trump leaked a top secret photograph. A contractor Reality Winner went to jail for doing this very thing.
Trump revealed to have tweeted classified image from spy satellite (msn.com)

 

[BoomerD]

Trump leaked a top secret photograph. A contractor Reality Winner went to jail for doing this very thing.
Trump revealed to have tweeted classified image from spy satellite (msn.com)

Remember, King Donnie the Twice Impeached can declassify ANYTHING just by thinking it.

 

[hal2kilo]

Jack Smith is new special prosecutor. Currently, at the Hague on something to do with war crimes.
Covering both Jan. 6 and Trump's personal show off library.

 

[Pens1566]

Indictment or completing a trial?

The commentary I heard was related to a new admin stopping the investigation, which this would hinder. So, the former.

TBH, I think this lessens the chances of any real action being taken. I'm down to about 20-25% chance he's indicted on real, non-process crimes (I was about 40% prior). This gives Garland cover so he can say "not my fault, special counsel chose not to indict".

 

[eelw]

The commentary I heard was related to a new admin stopping the investigation, which this would hinder. So, the former.

As if this investigation will take another 2 years. But this eliminates an indictment in 2-3 months. Earliest I’d think 6-9 months

 

[fskimospy]

Whoever is brought in is starting from scratch. While there is existing testimony, etc., they, by design, have had nothing to do with it so far. They will have staff in the same situation. The grand jury being empaneled is entirely new. The talk is this will continue through election in '24. That's more than 1-2 months.

This is...uhmm... wrong.

1) As you say right after they are not starting from scratch or anything even remotely close to that.
2) The grand jury being empaneled is new, but there was no previous grand jury empaneled for this. This is a sign of accelerating move to indict, not a sign of further delay.
3) The Mar-a-Lago crime being investigated is not complicated and does not require an extended investigation.
4) The odds that this investigation will continue through the 2024 election without issuing indictments are zero.

 

[Pens1566]

This is...uhmm... wrong.

1) As you say right after they are not starting from scratch or anything even remotely close to that.
2) The grand jury being empaneled is new, but there was no previous grand jury empaneled for this. This is a sign of accelerating move to indict, not a sign of further delay.
3) The Mar-a-Lago crime being investigated is not complicated and does not require an extended investigation.
4) The odds that this investigation will continue through the 2024 election without issuing indictments are zero.

OK

 

[Pens1566]

As if this investigation will take another 2 years. But this eliminates an indictment in 2-3 months. Earliest I’d think 6-9 months

And any longer than that is into primary season which gets into DoJs policy not to impact political races.

 

[fskimospy]

OK

This former federal prosecutor thinks this will lead to little to no delay. Do you have other qualified sources that think otherwise? I would be interested to read them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593679421063430144

 

[Pens1566]

This former federal prosecutor thinks this will lead to little to no delay. Do you have other qualified sources that think otherwise? I would be interested to read them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593679421063430144

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593680034757488640

And I just watched Renato on MSNBC. He's saying different things in different formats. He still thinks there is a "difficult decision" to be made. Along with everything else I said about staff, etc.

And starting about today, the govt is essentially shut down until after the new year. Skeleton crews across the board.

 

[Bitek]

This is annoying to me as it probably delays the indictment by a month or two. Then again since they had already been laying the groundwork for one in advance maybe not.

But probably better in the long run as it creates separation from the AG, the case, and the nuts in the House promising to impeach the AG (of that's even possible...)