Trump hits record 40% in new poll

[Moonbeam]

That would be seriously amazing I agree. We would end up with a government WAY further to the left than we would get otherwise if a real candidate were running.

You would get to see the left 'lose its mind' about something that didn't matter for a few months. Our country would get to see the right lose its mind for years.

I personally disagree. I think the right is dying to find a mad man who is saner than they are and Trump is there guy. They want leadership that tells them who's leading. They aren't so interested in where they are lead.

In order to make money in business you have to know how to structure deals. The only deals that work are win win. In short, in order to succeed in the business world you have to have ethical standards that bend, that accommodate other folk at the table. When Trump says he loves the Chinese because they buy 15 million dollar apartments he sells, he is expressing this ethic. He is simply confident that if we make him our CEO he will negotiate a better deal for the country.

In short, Trump is betting that his ability to put himself first in everything he does will pay dividends if the welfare of the American people are his primary interest and his view is appealing to a lot of people. The upside is that the best deals, as I said, are deals that satisfy interests on all sides. The real question in my mind is how deeply instilled is that business ethic, and will it truly extend to the whole country. I am hoping, in case he wins, that his talk of having a big heart which so many cynics deride, is actually real. Perhaps, because I go by feel rather than logic and reason, and have an instinct I rely on, I may be more hopeful than most. At any rate, my hope is just that, hope. I don't need to believe and if I am wrong, so be it. I always have hope because I died to the fear of and anger of disappointment long ago and bled my pain out as tears onto the floor.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

When did common sense become "the worst instincts"? Regaining control of our border -- common sense. Stopping the politically correct madness so we can have real dialogs instead of everyone tapdancing around parsing words so as not to offend someone -- common sense.

When a jackass like Ramos turns into an activist instead of journalist at the press conference, Trump is the one who shuts the idiot down. Others would appease him because he represents a big block of potential voters.

Ultimately, he lacks the temperament to be the president and has an ego that's just way too big for his own good.... but he brings some very refreshing things to the table.

I'm not a republican, but I am a conservative, and I find it neither embarrassing nor disturbing. He's bringing things to light that should be brought to light. That doesn't mean I'd vote for him over a reasonable candidate like Kasich.

"Regaining control of our border" is one thing (though, I hasten to point out, illegal immigration is nowhere near the problem people like Trump would have you believe - net immigration in this country has been static for years). Building a wall and kicking out 11,000,000 people is something else. The CBO has estimated that doing so would cost our economy $300,000,000,000. Trump even has the temerity to suggest that he would somehow force Mexico to pay for the wall, but when pressed has no explanation how he would do so. This is typical Trump - he is all bluster and no substance. The reality is that he is just shit-stirring and stoking hatred toward immigrants, without any sincere intention of doing any of the stupid things he has promised to do.

Trump is playing the American public just like any other politician - it's just that he's doing it in a way that appears more "authentic." Anyone who falls for his crap deserves to live under a President Donald Trump. I am reminded of what Ed Koch said after losing his re-election bid to David Dinkins: "The people have spoken . . . and now they must be punished."

 

[Mxylplyx]

In the "serious" Republican party these are things you can't talk about. The real base of the Republican party, the money guys - are in favor of global capitalism, and are in favor of cheap immigrant labor. And that means you can't be a serious Republican politician if you talk about such things, because then the money guys won't back you, and then you're forgotten.

I think the citizens united decision has turned out to be a disaster for the Republican brand. The "serious" Republican party has always been aware of the dirty undercurrents in their party, the sizable portion of xenophobes, racists, and intolerants that make up the hard core base. The "serious" party had crafted a fairly effective strategy of keeping these people in the fold without outright pandering to them.

Then came the tea party, funded by groups beyond the establishment's control, which upended this strategy. Not a single one of these Republican candidates, beyond maybe Bush, has an eye on the general election in this shit show. They are campaigning in the moment, propped up by their big money donors that insulate them from any pressure from the "serious" Republicans in the establishment that actually do keep an eye on the end game. They are pandering to the worst instincts of the Republican base, and torpedoing any Republican hopes in the general because of it, even for those candidates, ie Bush, that try rather poorly to stay above the fray. How the Republican party recovers from this is a mystery to me. This doesn't seem like something that can be put back in the bottle.

 

[Mxylplyx]

I think the right is dying to find a mad man who is saner than they are and Trump is there guy. They want leadership that tells them who's leading. They aren't so interested in where they are lead.

I just had to quote this. That is brilliant summation of Trump's candidacy.

 

[PokerGuy]

"Regaining control of our border" is one thing (though, I hasten to point out, illegal immigration is nowhere near the problem people like Trump would have you believe - net immigration in this country has been static for years).

Ok, hang on right there. Net illegal immigration has been static ... you make it sound like just because additional illegal immigration has not been climbing, that we should be OK with the current yearly level of illegal immigration. The correct number for illegal immigration should be 0 every year. Legal immigration is something we should discuss and plan to benefit the country.

The fact that there are 11 million (probably a LOT more than that, but lets assume 11) people here illegally is a huge issue. So yes, it is a big deal and it needs addressed.

Building a wall and kicking out 11,000,000 people is something else.

So the answer is "do nothing"? I didn't say I agreed with Trumps particular plan, but I like the fact that he's willing to talk about it in real terms. That needs to happen.

Trump is playing the American public just like any other politician - it's just that he's doing it in a way that appears more "authentic."

That's not true, and here's why: any 'regular' politician would do the political math and decide that it's better not to tackle something that could offend a big block of voters, so they would shy away from it and treat it with kid gloves, couching their statements etc. A 'regular' candidate would not insult (and continue to go after) a popular reporter when it's going to ultimately hurt him - a regular candidate would have "advisers" chirping in their ear telling them to make nice with Megyn Kelly. A regular candidate would not go to war with the one news outlet that doesn't absolutely hate him, like Trump has done. He's not a good candidate, but he's not "just like all the others" either.

Anyone who falls for his crap deserves to live under a President Donald Trump

I'm not "falling" for anything, I won't vote for him to be the president (unless the alternative is so even more horrible that there it is unacceptable), I don't want him in the white house. I'm just willing to recognize that there are some things about which Trump is right, and that there are refreshing things about his candor.

 

[SP33Demon]

I think the citizens united decision has turned out to be a disaster for the Republican brand. The "serious" Republican party has always been aware of the dirty undercurrents in their party, the sizable portion of xenophobes, racists, and intolerants that make up the hard core base. The "serious" party had crafted a fairly effective strategy of keeping these people in the fold without outright pandering to them.

Then came the tea party, funded by groups beyond the establishment's control, which upended this strategy. Not a single one of these Republican candidates, beyond maybe Bush, has an eye on the general election in this shit show. They are campaigning in the moment, propped up by their big money donors that insulate them from any pressure from the "serious" Republicans in the establishment that actually do keep an eye on the end game. They are pandering to the worst instincts of the Republican base, and torpedoing any Republican hopes in the general because of it, even for those candidates, ie Bush, that try rather poorly to stay above the fray. How the Republican party recovers from this is a mystery to me. This doesn't seem like something that can be put back in the bottle.

How the republican party recovers from what? They're trailing hillary by 6 points or less, probably even surpassed her with this new Trump poll. They own congress as well. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Once the all of the populace realizes they are getting robbed blind with ACA, even more will swing the other way. If you think the GOP is done then you haven't followed political history.

 

[BoberFett]

Ahh, more of the "they both do it" garbage. Wanting progressive policy ideas to win out over what the Republicans have been offering isnt "sticking it" to the Republicans. It's just wanting to win the debate of ideas. Republicans on the other hand have outlined their political positions based almost entirely on political opposition to Obama and the democrats, and are willing to let the entire country be collateral damage in their quest to undermine him, ie the ACA shutdown. How else would you explain the fierce opposition to the ACA which was originally a conservative idea? If Romney had won the presidency in 08 and presented the exact ACA bill as Romneycare based on the Massachusetts model and labeled it conservative, it would have received majority support among Republicans. The mandate would have been presented as making sure "freeloaders" pay their fair share, and Republicans would have eaten it up.

The conservative "ideal" culture is not some abstract fantasy. History is riddled with it, and there are examples of it all over the world. The history of this country is a long drawn out battle of progressives vs conservatives, and history shows that progressive ideas always win out in developed countries, because it embodies social progress. This is probably why conservatives are so bitter and angry. They draw a line in the sand and inevitably get dragged across it kicking and screaming. A black man in the white house who is unabashedly liberal has obviously really pissed them off.

Are you done masturbating yet?

 

[dullard]

The fact that there are 11 million (probably a LOT more than that, but lets assume 11) people here illegally is a huge issue. So yes, it is a big deal and it needs addressed.

If someone with the proper power flipped a switch and they were all legal, would the problems go away?

 

[soulcougher73]

If someone with the proper power flipped a switch and they were all legal, would the problems go away?

Nope. All that does is encourage this illegal behavior to continue knowing they will be made legal in a few years. People from other countries besides Mexico should learn from the Mexicans. Forget trying to come here legally. Takes too much time and money

 

[Jaskalas]

I am not a Republican, but if I were I would find the ascendency of Trump both troubling and embarrassing.

It goes far beyond Trump and straight back to the 80s with Reagan and Neocons.

Republican appeal to me originally stemmed from small government principles, of standing for the founding liberties this country was based on. The "each man an island" ideal of being free from the shackles of slavery... or rather, indentured servitude of others. Come to America and you are free to make it big, that men of wealth won't stop you or keep you down. That the government is restricted and cannot be your enemy. That the institution of this country is not standing in the way of your dreams. The American dream.

Republicans' supposed opposition to rules, regulation, to government expanse...
That's what a segment of the base believes in. Liberty, or Libertarianism.

That the Republicans represent us is just one big lie meant to steal votes from more worthy candidates. Reagan started what should have been temporary "emergency" polices meant to address the immediate crisis of the time. A military spending contest to bankrupt the USSR. Stimulus spending for the economy to recover from Iran, the oil embargo, and economic disaster of the 70s. Big government policies that were "for our own good" and helped garner Democrat support. Reagan's administration was the birthplace of compassionate conservatism. Big spending and trickle down economics.

AKA, damn Libertarian ideals, we'll appeal to Democrat voters and fight them at their own game. Big government. Mix in a coalition of Neocons (we'll reshape the world in our image) and Evangelists (we'll tell you what to do in your bedroom) and you have a fascist takeover of the Republican party. This happened under Reagan. Republicans became as great an enemy to the Libertarian base as any Democrat. Problem is few people could see it that way as the Republicans still adequately sold themselves as small government simply by "opposing" the Democrats.

Meanwhile, Presidencies such as George W. Bush happened. Pointedly describing himself in the 2000 election as a compassionate conservative, Bush stuck with the Neocon coalition of religious nuttery, big government, homeland security, and military war machine. A hallmark of fascist anti-Libertarian policy.

The two-term Bush presidency was seen as the standard for winning elections. Democrats here have often described Republican opposition to Bush as extremists and far right wing fringe. Bush was thus hailed as a hero of moderates who could appeal to enough voters and independents to win elections. Thus the big government Neocon policy became the defining characteristic of the Republican party, Libertarian voices be damned. Karl Rove just couldn't understand why we didn't vote for the successors.

Candidates McCain and Romney were both cut from the same cloth as Bush. Moderates who either worked with or came from Democrat territory. They worked across the aisle and knew how to follow in the Bush footsteps of "winning elections" through the Neocon platform. *cough, "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran".

These men did not become President because the base hated them, we hated Bush, we hated the Republican betrayal of small government principles. We either stayed home or voted for someone else. I did not vote Republican for Present in either 2008 or 2012. The Republican leadership needs to be dissolved and the party reformed. We angry voters stand in opposition to them.

Neocon takeover of the Republican party remains a troubling embarrassment. If it takes a hand grenade like Trump to slam the party head-on and crush it from within... then so be it. We need an end to the Reagan / Bush era and their legacy of big spending, police state policy, and foreign wars. We are hopeful that Trump is enough of a disruption to end the Republican party as we know it today. Someone has to end it.

Trump may be the Republican Base telling the Republican Party that they're finished.

 

[Pens1566]

Camacho/Honey Boo Boo '28

 

[Moonbeam]

Are you done masturbating yet?

Ah Jeez, did you have to go attack somebody who just said how brilliant I am?

 

[SP33Demon]

http://news.yahoo.com/trump-lead-grows-clinton-slips-poll-135509111.html

Latest Quinnipac poll has trump surging even more, at 28% from 20 since 7/30. Clinton down 10 points to 45% from 55 since 7/30. So clinton is ahead 17 points, and Biden ahead by 6 points over trump. However, Biden has the best favorability ratings of all 3.

Thursday's lead marks the widest margin for any Republican so far in the election cycle, the survey said.

Retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson placed a distant second with 12 percent, followed by former Florida governor Jeb Bush, Senator Ted Cruz and Senator Marco Rubio, each with seven percent.

So Trump has now quadrupled Bush, Cruz, and Rubio who are at 7%. dam

 

[PokerGuy]

If someone with the proper power flipped a switch and they were all legal, would the problems go away?

It would cause *some* of the issues to go away, while creating new ones. If you were to flip the switch and do that (which is essentially what Reagan did), you make those people legal citizens which means you can document them, support them, educate them without them having to be in the shadows. That's fine. Unfortunately, unless you actually then close the border, you are just creating an even bigger incentive for more illegals to stream in, which is exactly what happened after the Reagan amnesty. The real solution would involve actually enforcing the border, as well as doing something with the illegal immigrants already here (combination of deportation and legalization probably).

 

[Zor Prime]

West Virginia is Trump's to lose should the election be held today with a poll showing 53% of people would pick Trump over 30% for Clinton.

West Virginia usually votes Democrat in presidential elections.

 

[dullard]

It would cause *some* of the issues to go away, while creating new ones. If you were to flip the switch and do that (which is essentially what Reagan did), you make those people legal citizens which means you can document them, support them, educate them without them having to be in the shadows. That's fine. Unfortunately, unless you actually then close the border, you are just creating an even bigger incentive for more illegals to stream in, which is exactly what happened after the Reagan amnesty. The real solution would involve actually enforcing the border, as well as doing something with the illegal immigrants already here (combination of deportation and legalization probably).

I was just checking. The problem really isn't that they are legal/illegal. The problem is much more thorny than that. This topic discussion is always focussed on the legality which is very minor in comparison to the other real issues:
* Businesses need a cheap source of temporary labor.
* Those undocumented people need to be handled properly.
* We need to have a realistic way to legally become a citizen. The 11 million undocumented workers are a symptom of broken politics, and not the actual cause of the problems.
* We need to address the problems associated with immigration (jobs, crime, taxes, political views, social safety nets, etc.) and not just try to wish it away with a fence.

The deportation / fence / enforcement idea is fundamentally flawed since that isn't how people generally get here illegally any more. Border guards might find one person a month per guard. Doubling the number of border guards just means that we'll find one person every two months per guard. The real source of illegal immigration is far more varied (overstaying visas for example) and a fence and more border enforcement will do nothing for that.

I appreciate the focus. Trump's solution however is just to score political points rather than to actually have a true impact.

 

[retrospooty]

The deportation / fence / enforcement idea is fundamentally flawed since that isn't how people generally get here illegally any more. Border guards might find one person a month per guard. Doubling the number of border guards just means that we'll find one person every two months per guard. The real source of illegal immigration is far more varied (overstaying visas for example) and a fence and more border enforcement will do nothing for that.

I appreciate the focus. Trump's solution however is just to score political points rather than to actually have a true impact.

Yup Exactly. As Boberfett hilariously pointed out a few days ago, a fence wont work...
The technology has already been invented that gets past a fence (and he posted a pic of a ladder). LOL. Funny but overall it's true. A fence will do nothing at all.

 

[Pens1566]

West Virginia is Trump's to lose should the election be held today with a poll showing 53% of people would pick Trump over 30% for Clinton.

West Virginia usually votes Democrat in presidential elections.

I wouldn't call once in the last 5 "usually".

 

[fskimospy]

West Virginia is Trump's to lose should the election be held today with a poll showing 53% of people would pick Trump over 30% for Clinton.

West Virginia usually votes Democrat in presidential elections.

LOL no it does not. Obama lost West Virginia to Mitt Romney by 27 points in 2012. (62% to 35%) He lost it to John McCain in 2008 by 13 points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_West_Virginia,_2012

Donald Trump is underperforming Mitt Romney. That's how hated he is. Trump might win West Virginia but hell, even Walter Mondale won at least one state.

 

[kage69]

Donald Trump is underperforming Mitt Romney. That's how hated he is. Trump might win West Virginia but hell, even Walter Mondale won at least one state.

Ouch.



Meanwhile, Sanders keeps gaining momentum and Hillary is feeling it. Can you imagine debates between Trump and Sanders? :biggrin: *catches breath* Heh, Trump would get turned into fingerpaint, his people watching at home would be like Ripley at the end of Aliens, telling Newt "Close your eyes honey" Hahahaha

But no, it'll probably be Hillary and a Koch employee. Boooooo.

 

[bshole]

`

 

[Mxylplyx]

How the republican party recovers from what? They're trailing hillary by 6 points or less, probably even surpassed her with this new Trump poll. They own congress as well. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Once the all of the populace realizes they are getting robbed blind with ACA, even more will swing the other way. If you think the GOP is done then you haven't followed political history.

How long have conservatives been waiting for Americans to "wake up" and realize they were right all along? Probably since reconstruction I would imagine.

 

[BoberFett]

*snip*

Trump may be the Republican Base telling the Republican Party that they're finished.

Interesting theory. Not sure how correct you are, but I always enjoy hearing your point of view Jaskalas.

 

[Spungo]

Even better would be a female President in a same-sex marriage, where both spouses were atheists and had at least one abortion.

Nah, men seem to tolerate lesbians. I want to see an annoyingly flamboyant gay president. Think of that super gay character from Will & Grace.

How long have conservatives been waiting for Americans to "wake up" and realize they were right all along? Probably since reconstruction I would imagine.

Waiting for Gogot.
"This guy will be a real small government conservative!"
Nope, another big-government and corrupt asshole who wants to ban plants and legislate how people are allowed to fuck.

 

[Nebor]

That would be seriously amazing I agree. We would end up with a government WAY further to the left than we would get otherwise if a real candidate were running.

You would get to see the left 'lose its mind' about something that didn't matter for a few months. Our country would get to see the right lose its mind for years.

That's what makes it so good. We get a lot of cheap entertainment, and then in the end we get a real progressive government that can start to ban military guns in civilian hands, change over to single payer health care and redistribute wealth from the top 1%.