Trump Files Financial Report with Federal Election Commission

[PokerGuy]

Really? Because every time I hear him talk I hear him tell us how well he's doing in the polls. If he's not trying to get votes, why run for president and why would he care about the polls?

Of course he's trying to get votes. Of course he's running for president and trying to win. The point is, eskimo said he's playing me (and others) like a fiddle with this whole "honesty" crap, that it's all a ruse. That simply doesn't hold water, because the tried and true winning formula in politics is to lie/obfuscate/promise everything to everyone/pander etc. He's not sticking to that formula, so it's likely going to hurt him, not help him.

 

[dank69]

I get it just fine, honesty and intelligence are NOT related, and the two should not be conflated. I like the honesty and speaking your mind. That doesn't mean I have to like the positions or statements at all. You (and others) appear to have a tough time grasping that concept.

No, you don't get it just fine. You like his "honesty" even though you acknowledge that what he believes is garbage. Good for you. We don't care if it stems from dishonesty or ignorance. You still end up with the same shitty final result.

 

[PokerGuy]

No, you don't get it just fine. You like his "honesty" even though you acknowledge that what he believes is garbage. Good for you. We don't care if it stems from dishonesty or ignorance. You still end up with the same shitty final result.

So, you're back to making a judgement about him as a candidate. I did no such thing. I said I appreciate the honesty. I didn't say "gosh, he's so honest, now I think he's a great overall candidate!". You guys are really struggling with the concept that you can like one particular aspect of someone without liking every aspect of them.

 

[soundforbjt]

So, you're back to making a judgement about him as a candidate. I did no such thing. I said I appreciate the honesty. I didn't say "gosh, he's so honest, now I think he's a great overall candidate!". You guys are really struggling with the concept that you can like one particular aspect of someone without liking every aspect of them.

So, is he being honest/saying what he really believes now or what he said before he became a candidate?

 

[fskimospy]

So, is he being honest/saying what he really believes now or what he said before he became a candidate?

BOTH TIMES!

Duh.

 

[Moonbeam]

Would you rather have A) a person who believes xyz and tells you abc, or B) someone who tells you abc when he believes abc? Regardless of what abc is, whether you agree with it or not, I prefer someone who says what he believes. That part is refreshing.

If you don't agree with the content, that's perfectly fine, and I didn't say the honesty made him an overall good candidate. I specifically said his candor is refreshing, regardless of whether you agree with his statements.

You are not refreshed by his candor, but by the fact that his candor corresponds to what you feel, whether you believe what you feel or even know that you feel it.

I have started to love Trump because he says so much of the bigotry I have absorbed by being an American all my life. I find him refreshingly honest and I also, unlike eskimo, think he is saying what he believes, not saying it because he has his finger on the pulse of my Id, but because he believes in his own.

However, I think because I am honest, aware just a bit of the swine that dwells in me, I can take a small step to try to rise above the worst in me. Not having the CBD need to deny what a worthless piece of shit I am, because I had to let that consciousness in, I don't need to make a god of the evil in the world that expresses my Id. I just look at myself and shake my head.

 

[ivwshane]

Of course he's trying to get votes. Of course he's running for president and trying to win. The point is, eskimo said he's playing me (and others) like a fiddle with this whole "honesty" crap, that it's all a ruse. That simply doesn't hold water, because the tried and true winning formula in politics is to lie/obfuscate/promise everything to everyone/pander etc. He's not sticking to that formula, so it's likely going to hurt him, not help him.

Oh so it's not his "honesty" that you find refreshing but his total disregard for the typical political strategy presidential candidates use? Or do you really believe he believes the crap he's saying?

Careful now, one answer results in you being played while the other doesn't.

 

[PokerGuy]

So, is he being honest/saying what he really believes now or what he said before he became a candidate?

BOTH TIMES!

Duh.

Actually, you do realize it can be both, right?

Was obummer lying when he was against gay marriage, or is he lying now that he's for it? If you believe him, then he was telling the truth in both instances. If you don't like changing opinions / flip flopping and so forth, that's fine, and that's a completely different discussion.

 

[Moonbeam]

lol. What is hard to understand here?

HE'S BULLSHITTING YOU

Do you think he says what he says because he has a graph of the American psyche from which he intellectually determines the most outrageous things he can say, or do you think he says outrageous things because he feels them himself.

I hole you liberals know you don't understand the moral feelings of conservatives as well as they understand you. I would hope some of you may note that Republicans win elections to the amazement of the LBD.

 

[PokerGuy]

Oh so it's not his "honesty" that you find refreshing but his total disregard for the typical political strategy presidential candidates use? Or do you really believe he believes the crap he's saying?

Careful now, one answer results in you being played while the other doesn't.

Huh? You seem to be completely confused again. I think he actually believes the stuff he says, and he's simply not as skilled as a politician to properly package his stances and lie / obfuscate as needed. That doesn't mean I agree with him, but I do actually believe he speaks off the cuff and says what he thinks at that moment, which often means he hasn't had a chance to carefully craft a "position" with a team based on opinion polling and such. He's a PR "handler" team nightmare.

 

[Moonbeam]

Huh? You seem to be completely confused again. I think he actually believes the stuff he says, and he's simply not as skilled as a politician to properly package his stances and lie / obfuscate as needed. That doesn't mean I agree with him, but I do actually believe he speaks off the cuff and says what he thinks at that moment, which often means he hasn't had a chance to carefully craft a "position" with a team based on opinion polling and such. He's a PR "handler" team nightmare.

I bet a sociopath could also do that.

 

[fskimospy]

Actually, you do realize it can be both, right?

Was obummer lying when he was against gay marriage, or is he lying now that he's for it? If you believe him, then he was telling the truth in both instances. If you don't like changing opinions / flip flopping and so forth, that's fine, and that's a completely different discussion.

Uhmm, Obama was quite clearly lying when he said he opposed gay marriage. He had a history of supporting it in the past and changed it for political convenience.

I like Obama for many reasons, but his strict record of honesty in public statements is not one of them.

Again, what would it take for you to think that Trump was being dishonest?

 

[thraashman]

I bet a sociopath could also do that.

Wait, who are we calling a sociopath here, Trump or Pokerguy? Either way I agree.

 

[dank69]

So, you're back to making a judgement about him as a candidate. I did no such thing. I said I appreciate the honesty. I didn't say "gosh, he's so honest, now I think he's a great overall candidate!". You guys are really struggling with the concept that you can like one particular aspect of someone without liking every aspect of them.

You are confused because I never said you said the bolded either. I am trying to explain to you why I think that even if he is being honest that I don't think that is worth any points. All it means is he believes bullshit.

 

[PokerGuy]

Uhmm, Obama was quite clearly lying when he said he opposed gay marriage. He had a history of supporting it in the past and changed it for political convenience.

Ok, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt then, but you're saying he's just a lying scumbag politician. Fair enough, he's certainly not alone in that respect, and he's not the first and won't be the last.

Again, what would it take for you to think that Trump was being dishonest?

Evidence of him believing something different at the time than what he's saying.

 

[fskimospy]

Ok, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt then, but you're saying he's just a lying scumbag politician. Fair enough, he's certainly not alone in that respect, and he's not the first and won't be the last.

It was pretty obvious he wasn't telling the truth, just the same as with Trump now. It's not complicated.

Evidence of him believing something different at the time than what he's saying.

What counts as evidence? I'm interested to go apply this standard to your historical views of Democratic politicians and see how it holds up. 🙂

 

[PokerGuy]

I am trying to explain to you why I think that even if he is being honest that I don't think that is worth any points. All it means is he believes bullsh*t.

We'll have to disagree on that one then.

As a thought experiment, who would you prefer: a guy who says "I dislike <insert race here> people", or a guy who dislikes certain people based on their race but says the opposite? IMO they are both idiots, but I much prefer the first guy because I know exactly where he stands and I know I won't vote for him. So yes, I like candor and honesty, even if I don't like what either guy stands for.

Candor and honesty is becoming an ever-more-rare commodity because while we say we want people to be honest, we generally punish people (especially politicians) who are.

 

[PokerGuy]

It was pretty obvious he wasn't telling the truth, just the same as with Trump now. It's not complicated.

What specifically is Trump lying about now then?

What counts as evidence? I'm interested to go apply this standard to your historical views of Democratic politicians and see how it holds up. 🙂

If there is evidence of publicly saying one thing and then privately saying the opposite or something significantly different, or his actions being completely different, I'd consider that a lie. Changing your mind about something is not lying. Lying is when you say something that you don't believe to be true.

 

[Moonbeam]

You are confused because I never said you said the bolded either. I am trying to explain to you why I think that even if he is being honest that I don't think that is worth any points. All it means is he believes bullshit.

My point is that we know what we feel about something and don't know what we feel about others but there is a truth to what we feel and when somebody else expresses what we really feel whether they know they feel it, are pretending to feel it, or think they are pretending and do actually feel it, that expression appears to be refreshing.

This is especially true when negative feelings most of have learned go over like lead balloons in polite company are expressed publically. A feeling of catharsis takes place. Somebody is finally honest and telling the truth. It's not the truth because the feelings are the result of mental illness but those 'courageous' or 'outrageous' or psychologically damaged enough not to repress them, can be seen as refreshing. We are all mentally ill, some more than others. Liberals are better able to keep their feelings from influencing their ability to reason. It doesn't mean they don't have feelings. In a world where everybody hates him or herself, that ability can come in handy.

 

[fskimospy]

What specifically is Trump lying about now then?

Considering the massive change in political positions on a wide range of mostly unrelated issues, probably multiple things.

If there is evidence of publicly saying one thing and then privately saying the opposite or something significantly different, or his actions being completely different, I'd consider that a lie. Changing your mind about something is not lying. Lying is when you say something that you don't believe to be true.

Yes, that is what lying is. Like I said, I'm going to have to go and apply this standard to your past and future statements. Something tells me if I poke around in your post history you've made many accusations of lying that wouldn't meet this standard. I wonder why it's suddenly become so much more strict?

 

[PokerGuy]

Considering the massive change in political positions on a wide range of mostly unrelated issues, probably multiple things.

Again, what specifically is he currently lying about?

Yes, that is what lying is. Like I said, I'm going to have to go and apply this standard to your past and future statements. Something tells me if I poke around in your post history you've made many accusations of lying that wouldn't meet this standard. I wonder why it's suddenly become so much more strict?

Have at it, my interpretation of lying and how politicians operate has not changed or gotten any stricter or less strict. I like candor, even if that occasionally lands someone in hot water. I prefer honesty, even if I don't like the message.

 

[dank69]

We'll have to disagree on that one then.

As a thought experiment, who would you prefer: a guy who says "I dislike <insert race here> people", or a guy who dislikes certain people based on their race but says the opposite? IMO they are both idiots, but I much prefer the first guy because I know exactly where he stands and I know I won't vote for him. So yes, I like candor and honesty, even if I don't like what either guy stands for.

Candor and honesty is becoming an ever-more-rare commodity because while we say we want people to be honest, we generally punish people (especially politicians) who are.

I always prefer honesty, but in this case I certainly wouldn't find it to be "refreshing."

As for punishing honesty, I don't see it that way. The punishment is for the shitty belief, not the honesty. For example, we don't withhold punishment for a murderer just because he admits he committed murder. Would you classify that as punishing honesty? No.

 

[fskimospy]

Again, what specifically is he currently lying about?

Again, likely several things. Don't be deliberately obtuse. The likelihood of him genuinely changing his mind on all those different subjects is extremely small.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that either something insanely improbable has happened or he's lying. Just got to use your head.

Have at it, my interpretation of lying and how politicians operate has not changed or gotten any stricter or less strict. I like candor, even if that occasionally lands someone in hot water. I prefer honesty, even if I don't like the message.

You are so full of shit.

For example in response to this:

Seriously. In his speech, Obama said he was open to ideas from both parties. I can't imagine the hacks in this thread ever being open to their opponents' ideas.

You said:

He SAYS he's open to ideas from both parties. He's said that all through his campaign, and it's already been proven to be a lie many many times over. What he says and what he does are very different things.....

Please apply your Donald Trump standard to that statement about Obama. This will require you not only showing Obama has not been open to any ideas from the Republican Party (already an impossible task), but that he KNEW when campaigning, etc that he wouldn't be open to any Republican ideas when he said it.

To be clear I can do this for a lot of posts of yours.

 

[Sonikku]

People keep saying "I like Trump because he's honest". But I think a lot of people have very short attention spans. Trump "ran" in the last presidential cycle too, except he chalked up his success solely to himself, neglecting to mention the multi million dollar inheritance, help from his dad, help from the government/bankruptcy laws etc.

http://www.alternet.org/story/15623..._government's_protection_mostly_did_the_trick

You'd almost think he was a self made man forged from nothing but gumption and hard work ethic to hear him tell it in the last presidential election.

 

[dank69]

Again, likely several things. Don't be deliberately obtuse. The likelihood of him genuinely changing his mind on all those different subjects is extremely small.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that either something insanely improbable has happened or he's lying. Just got to use your head.



You are so full of shit.

For example in response to this:



You said:



Please apply your Donald Trump standard to that statement about Obama. This will require you not only showing Obama has not been open to any ideas from the Republican Party (already an impossible task), but that he KNEW when campaigning, etc that he wouldn't be open to any Republican ideas when he said it.

To be clear I can do this for a lot of posts of yours.

How can you be certain that PokerGuy didn't change his mind between that post and now? 😀