Trump’s decision to politicize COVID now killing White America

[tweaker2]

I've filled my card, initial 2 vaccines, then boosted twice. I still wear a mask in large retail businesses.

I've never had any variety of COVID.

Same here because it just makes plain 'ol common sense to do that. Others who don't mind taking the risk of having debilitating aftereffects soon or years from now that aren't known at this time is crazy thinking to me. But that's just me. Like it's been said everyone's got choices, but some of them choices just don't make any sense at all.

 

[fskimospy]

Same here because it just makes plain 'ol common sense to do that. Others who don't mind taking the risk of having debilitating aftereffects soon or years from now that aren't known at this time is crazy thinking to me. But that's just me. Like it's been said everyone's got choices, but some of them choices just don't make any sense at all.

I’m fully vaccinated and boosted but other than that I live my life the same way I did before the pandemic. I go to shows, bars, restaurants, etc. without thinking twice. I’ve had COVID at least once and like most people have no after effects.

Long COVID for the most part appears to be bullshit brought on by poor study design or poor interpretation by the media. I’m sure some people, especially those with severe cases, suffer long term effects but I can’t help but roll my eyes at those headlines of ‘40% have lingering effects!’ I know a lot of people who have had it and to the best of my knowledge the percentage with lingering effects is 0%.

 

[Captante]

I’ve had COVID at least once and like most people have no after effects.

I'm not surprised a bit by this .... I hope for your sake the assumption that "long Covid appears to be BS" doesn't come back to haunt you.

I know at a good dozen people IRL that had Covid and at least 3 of them have some serious lasting side-effects including my daughter who has yet to recover her full sense of smell/taste.

I think I'll continue to get my medical advice from doctors.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not surprised a bit by this .... I hope for your sake the assumption that "long Covid appears to be BS" doesn't come back to haunt you.

I know at a good dozen people IRL that had Covid and at least 3 of them have some serious lasting side-effects including my daughter who has yet to recover her full sense of smell/taste.

I think I'll continue to get my medical advice from doctors.

Sure, everything in life has costs and benefits. If people want to restrict their lives to lessen their COVID risk that’s their business. For me on the other hand there are no game changing pharmaceutical interventions coming in the near future and COVID isn’t going anywhere. So you can forego these activities for the foreseeable future or if you’re like me as a triple vaccinated relatively young person, recognize my risk is very low.

As far as medical advice goes that doesn’t make sense to me. I’m not asking doctors for a course of treatment. You’re talking about public health advice, something doctors are often not very good at. I’m certain you regularly ignore public health advice about non-COVID topics, btw.

 

[Captante]

You’re talking about public health advice, something doctors are often not very good at. I’m certain you regularly ignore public health advice about non-COVID topics, btw.

No, I'm not.

I'm talking about advice from several MD's I know personally along with my own Yale-based docs opinion.... they're the people I listen to because pretty much everything they've told me has proven accurate.

(as opposed to Dr ATOT ... erm .... Dr P&N ??)

 

[fskimospy]

No, I'm not.

I'm talking about advice from several MD's I know personally along with my own Yale-based docs opinion.... they're the people I listen to because pretty much everything they've told me has proven accurate.

(as opposed to Dr ATOT ... erm .... Dr P&N ??)

Can you describe the advice they gave you?

 

[Captante]

Can you describe the advice they gave you?

I'm not getting into any personal/medical specifics but they ALL are still masking up in public now for one thing and the advice I was given was to do the same.

Otherwise I'm not sure where you're going here, doc P&N.

 

[Indus]

I’m fully vaccinated and boosted but other than that I live my life the same way I did before the pandemic. I go to shows, bars, restaurants, etc. without thinking twice. I’ve had COVID at least once and like most people have no after effects.

Long COVID for the most part appears to be bullshit brought on by poor study design or poor interpretation by the media. I’m sure some people, especially those with severe cases, suffer long term effects but I can’t help but roll my eyes at those headlines of ‘40% have lingering effects!’ I know a lot of people who have had it and to the best of my knowledge the percentage with lingering effects is 0%.

While 40% seems high, to say its 0% is bullshit.

Because both me and my wife have lingering effects..

My covid was worse yet my lingering effect is the cough and flem won't go away and it makes me choke and gag sometimes.

Hers was milder but she has had really sharp stomach pain since that day and it won't let up. Due to have MRI/ catscan done soon. Have had to wait for almost a month to get it done though.

So just because the media might overblow it.. its not 0%.

 

[fskimospy]

While 40% seems high, to say its 0% is bullshit.

Because both me and my wife have lingering effects..

My covid was worse yet my lingering effect is the cough and flem won't go away and it makes me choke and gag sometimes.

Hers was milder but she has had really sharp stomach pain since that day and it won't let up. Due to have MRI/ catscan done soon. Have had to wait for almost a month to get it done though.

So just because the media might overblow it.. its not 0%.

I have no idea what the true percentage is, what I said is that I am confident the 40% figure is bullshit.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not getting into any personal/medical specifics but they ALL are still masking up in public now for one thing and the advice I was given was to do the same.

Otherwise I'm not sure where you're going here, doc P&N.

This is what I thought, you are confusing medical advice for public health advice. What they are telling you is how to limit your odds of contracting COVID, and that all makes sense! They are not considering (or at least not considering highly) the costs of this.

For example lots of doctors were in favor of closing schools. If all you are interested in is limiting infections this makes perfect sense. Unfortunately those decisions led to catastrophic learning loss in those kids that will haunt them for life, most likely, inflicting far greater harm to society as a whole than more COVID infections. I’m sure they thought they were helping, but they inflicted huge harms.

This was my point. If you don’t want to go to bars, restaurants, or shows for the foreseeable future that’s your business, but you’re making a very real sacrifice about an area of life lots of people feel is vitally important. Maybe you don’t like those things and so this is no major loss for you, but preventing COVID infection is just not a very high priority for most people now, and that’s a perfectly rational position to take.

 

[nickqt]

While 40% seems high, to say its 0% is bullshit.

Because both me and my wife have lingering effects..

My covid was worse yet my lingering effect is the cough and flem won't go away and it makes me choke and gag sometimes.

Hers was milder but she has had really sharp stomach pain since that day and it won't let up. Due to have MRI/ catscan done soon. Have had to wait for almost a month to get it done though.

So just because the media might overblow it.. its not 0%.

You could have a lingering sinus infection, go to an urgent care if you have the time. Some azithromycin could clear that up (I am not a doctor).

 

[MtnMan]

Same here because it just makes plain 'ol common sense to do that. Others who don't mind taking the risk of having debilitating aftereffects soon or years from now that aren't known at this time is crazy thinking to me. But that's just me. Like it's been said everyone's got choices, but some of them choices just don't make any sense at all.

Local and very vocal republican who has been on city council, failed state house bid, and chair of the local republican party, and a practicing psychologist and anti-vaxxer, came down with COVID. He lives somewhat near me, as I would see him walking his dog, while walking my dog, and was a physical fitness nut.
Here is an excerpt for an FB posting

The day COVID hit me I did seventy-five pushups and eighteen chin-ups without stopping, ran for 30 minutes, hung upside down for several more on a gravity bed, worked nine hours, and walked an additional twenty minutes with my dog Pepper to finish the day.

By the next morning I was unable to hold up my head, and within a week I was in the hospital. I stayed there in one fashion or another for two and a half months – including five weeks on a ventilator.

The part about exercise is not bragging. It’s for contrast. I went from being a fit older guy to a wreck in twenty-four hours. As I write this and complete my effort, I’m still a wreck.

Without my wife, prayer and higher authority’s grace, the lingering blessings of exercise, and a parade of wonderful medical caregivers, I wouldn’t be here. Actually, per the odds from being that sick, that long, and the dependence on a ventilator, I shouldn’t be here.

Lost 56 pounds, which probably put him under 100 pounds total, and had to learn to walk again, and has finally started taking walks without aid of his walker.

He even had an anti-vax letter published in a local paper before he came down with COVID. Excerpt from that letter...

Vaccine advocates are stuck with a large percentage of independent thinkers weary of the heavy hand of untrusted leadership, conflicting abuses of the scientific model and a rather remarkable reliance on mockery, anger and threats as ill-advised compliance motivators.

The man is a fucking doctor, be it a psychologist.

 

[Captante]

This is what I thought, you are confusing medical advice for public health advice.

One thing I've noticed about you is you're big on assumptions.

(doesn't seem very "elite" to me lol... but think whatever makes you feel "right")

 

[tweaker2]

I’m fully vaccinated and boosted but other than that I live my life the same way I did before the pandemic. I go to shows, bars, restaurants, etc. without thinking twice. I’ve had COVID at least once and like most people have no after effects.

Long COVID for the most part appears to be bullshit brought on by poor study design or poor interpretation by the media. I’m sure some people, especially those with severe cases, suffer long term effects but I can’t help but roll my eyes at those headlines of ‘40% have lingering effects!’ I know a lot of people who have had it and to the best of my knowledge the percentage with lingering effects is 0%.

I fully respect your sensibilities in this matter. You have your choices to make and I have mine. We both live with and accept the consequences thereof. Seems to be how things should work in this democracy we live in. At my advanced age, I have to take more precautions than you do in your relative youth. I believe this is why we differ in our viewpoints on this matter.

 

[Brovane]

While 40% seems high, to say its 0% is bullshit.

Because both me and my wife have lingering effects..

My covid was worse yet my lingering effect is the cough and flem won't go away and it makes me choke and gag sometimes.

Hers was milder but she has had really sharp stomach pain since that day and it won't let up. Due to have MRI/ catscan done soon. Have had to wait for almost a month to get it done though.

So just because the media might overblow it.. its not 0%.

Where you fully vaccinated when you got COVID?

Everyone I know who has had a breakthrough infection of COVID after vaccination has recovered quickly with no lingering issues. Not saying the chance is zero, but to me it seems that the media is sensationalizing the entire long COVID thing.

 

[Captante]

Where you fully vaccinated when you got COVID?

Everyone I know who has had a breakthrough infection of COVID after vaccination has recovered quickly with no lingering issues. Not saying the chance is zero, but to me it seems that the media is sensationalizing the entire long COVID thing.

Last time I checked they do that with pretty much everything.

 

[Brovane]

I'm not getting into any personal/medical specifics but they ALL are still masking up in public now for one thing and the advice I was given was to do the same.

Otherwise I'm not sure where you're going here, doc P&N.

What type of mask did they recommend?

 

[Captante]

What type of mask did they recommend?

My primary-care doctor & my cardiologist both told me that real N95 (or finer-filtering) masks were the only ones proven to resist infection by virus-size particles and that those were what they used personally way back in summer of 2020.

Since then they have both added Korean KN-94 (?) masks as well... they're certainly more convenient but IMO they also leak more air around the sides due to using ear-straps.

 

[Brovane]

My primary-care doctor & my cardiologist both told me that real N95 (or finer-filtering) masks were the only ones proven to resist infection by virus-size particles and that those were what they used personally way back in summer of 2020.

Since then they have both added Korean KN-94 (?) masks as well.

What is the end goal of continued masking in public? COVID-19 isn't going away and will continue to circulate.
I was talking with my PRC about this a couple of weeks ago and in his opinion it should be treated just like another endemic respiratory virus.

Pro-Masking Doctors Are Often Hypocrites

Here is the hypocrisy. If you truly think we should try to slow the spread of the virus, the only option is not to have the conference. After all, these conferences are not necessary. They can be replaced with virtual ones— as occurred the last 2 years. Even an n95 mask mandate at the conference won’t stop thousands from partying at night, unmasked. If you think slowing spread is important, then the only answer is to abort the meeting.

 

[Captante]

And when the Covid daily positivity-rate in my county/city drops below approx 3% I'll stop wearing a mask in the grocery store..... until then however I will be wearing one.

Then if/when it rises again I'll put my mask back on.... same with influenza etc.

Not difficult.... but then I don't base my decisions on what the herd decides to go with!

Thanks though.

 

[Brovane]

Interesting article about Long COVID. The part about 2/3 of those who identified as COVID long-haulers had negative Coronavirus antibody tests. I know those test are not prefect but 2/3 is a high number.

We need to start thinking more critically — and speaking more cautiously — about long Covid

Almost everyone who dies of Covid-19 develops a condition called acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), a form of pneumonia involving severe inflammation of both lungs. Many studies have shown that for some individuals, ARDS can have myriad long-term effects, including physical and cognitive impairments, reduced lung function, mental health problems, and poorer quality of life. A 1999 study found that even patients with less-severe forms of pneumonia can have symptoms that linger for months.

In addition, lung failure can precipitate the failure of other organs, like the kidneys and the heart, and can sometimes require specialized rehabilitation and care for months, or even years. SARS-CoV-2 infection can also (though rarely) inflict permanent damage on other organs, including severe myocarditis (an inflammation of the heart muscle leading to heart failure) and stroke, in the absence of significant lung disease.

Still, even if these ailments are sometimes acknowledged in media reports of long Covid, most narratives evoke something entirely different: a debilitating syndrome seemingly affecting multiple organ systems for months on end — and perhaps indefinitely — but without any specific diagnosis such as myocarditis or stroke. It is also notable that reports often suggest that even those with only mild acute symptoms — or no acute symptoms at all — are at risk.

First, consider that at least some people who identify themselves as having long Covid appear never to have been infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. In Yong’s influential article, he cites a survey of Covid long-haulers in which some two-thirds of them had negative coronavirus antibody tests — blood tests that reveal prior SARS-CoV-2 infection. Meanwhile, a survey organized by a group of self-identified long Covid patients that recruited participants from online support groups reported in late December 2020 that around two-thirds of those surveyed who had undergone blood testing reported negative results.

 

[Brovane]

And when the Covid daily positivity-rate in my county/city drops below approx 3% I'll stop wearing a mask in the grocery store..... until then however I will be wearing one.

Then if/when it rises again I'll put my mask back on.... same with influenza etc.

Not difficult.

Thanks though.

It would have been nice if the CDC would have conducted good Randomized Controlled trials showing if masks actually worked to control the spread.
Would have given us a good scientific datapoint for future pandemics involving a respiratory virus.

The Best Argument Public Health Should be Stripped of Power is The CDC Ran Zero Cluster RCTs

Even if you steadfastly believe community masking works (hypothetically). A cluster RCT of surgical vs. n95 might make sense. Or if you believe everyone should wear an n95, a trial of kf94s (more comfortable perhaps) vs. n95s might make sense. If you think masking is silly, one arm should be no mask recommended. But the bottom line is that every single person can think of some study to lower uncertainty. There is a study for everyone from covid nihilist to zealot.

Yet, during this time, the US CDC ran zero cluster randomized trials.

Zero.

Not on a plane, not on a train, not in your house, not with a— ok maybe they did some mouse studies.

How can anyone justify this? Countless questions and the preeminent federal agency in charge ran ZERO cluster RCTs. They answered zero questions.

We will leave the pandemic knowing nothing about whether universal intermittent cloth mask airplane mandates slow spread of coronaviruses. Yet, many “experts” act as if they know—substituting arrogance for knowledge.

 

[MrSquished]

A client of mine and her husband lost taste and smell for many many months.

My friend had Covid earlier this year and had lingering effects for a few months. He was fatigued and just not 100% physically. 46 years old and quite healthy.

 

[fskimospy]

Interesting article about Long COVID. The part about 2/3 of those who identified as COVID long-haulers had negative Coronavirus antibody tests. I know those test are not prefect but 2/3 is a high number.

We need to start thinking more critically — and speaking more cautiously — about long Covid

Almost everyone who dies of Covid-19 develops a condition called acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), a form of pneumonia involving severe inflammation of both lungs. Many studies have shown that for some individuals, ARDS can have myriad long-term effects, including physical and cognitive impairments, reduced lung function, mental health problems, and poorer quality of life. A 1999 study found that even patients with less-severe forms of pneumonia can have symptoms that linger for months.

In addition, lung failure can precipitate the failure of other organs, like the kidneys and the heart, and can sometimes require specialized rehabilitation and care for months, or even years. SARS-CoV-2 infection can also (though rarely) inflict permanent damage on other organs, including severe myocarditis (an inflammation of the heart muscle leading to heart failure) and stroke, in the absence of significant lung disease.

Still, even if these ailments are sometimes acknowledged in media reports of long Covid, most narratives evoke something entirely different: a debilitating syndrome seemingly affecting multiple organ systems for months on end — and perhaps indefinitely — but without any specific diagnosis such as myocarditis or stroke. It is also notable that reports often suggest that even those with only mild acute symptoms — or no acute symptoms at all — are at risk.

First, consider that at least some people who identify themselves as having long Covid appear never to have been infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. In Yong’s influential article, he cites a survey of Covid long-haulers in which some two-thirds of them had negative coronavirus antibody tests — blood tests that reveal prior SARS-CoV-2 infection. Meanwhile, a survey organized by a group of self-identified long Covid patients that recruited participants from online support groups reported in late December 2020 that around two-thirds of those surveyed who had undergone blood testing reported negative results.

To me this is the biggest red flag - that long covid symptoms in several studies are similar between the COVID group and the non-COVID group. That implies an unaccounted for confounding variable.

Second red flag is that a lot of ‘long covid’ symptoms are things like fatigue or body pain. I turned 42 this year, I’m kind of tired a lot of the time and my body has weird aches and pains. If that’s long covid I’ve had it long before covid showed up.

To be clear I 100% accept that there are some people who have long term symptoms after infection, most prominently loss of taste and smell but also particularly for severe cases other lingering symptoms. The numbers being thrown around by studies and the media are simply preposterous though. Does anyone really think 150 million Americans are suffering from long covid?

 

[Captante]

It would have been nice if the CDC would have conducted good Randomized Controlled trials

Many people are total idiots so of course masks "don't work very well" herp-derp. When your "mask" is a doubled-over sheet of cotton that doesn't even cover your nose and you only wear it "sometimes" this is to be expected.

Even when people were wearing proper N95 masks that tightly fit their faces they would still have them hanging off their dang chins or not covering their noses.


This is the last time I personally will reply to this kind of post... there's no need for a "CDC study" to see if properly worn N95 masks protect against Covid infection, rather this is what's commonly referred to as "established scientific fact".

But think whatever you want IDC.