Tropes vs. Women Author Driven From Home

[QuantumPion]

Saying, "this is sexist, and can cause impressionable people to become sexist, or re-affirm existing sexism beliefs, even though there is no positive evidence for this," and the way she goes about it, is a lot of things, but is not equivalent to the same statement appended with, "and so should be illegal to create an sell."

What do you think her goal is (besides the "give me money to absolve yourself of the original sin of being a male" part)?

 

[Cerb]

What do you think her goal is (besides the "give me money to absolve yourself of the original sin of being a male" part)?

My guess would be to feed a need for power, or egotism, but IANAS.

 

[master_shake_]

What do you think her goal is (besides the "give me money to absolve yourself of the original sin of being a male" part)?

isn't that what evangelist do on tv?

give us your money and you won't go to hell.

seems like a good business model. take money from weak people.

 

[Blue_Max]

[Anita:] "I could use a nice, lavish vacation with all this free money. Hmmm... but I might get more backlash like I did for the shoes... I know! I'll post these troll messages from 18 months ago and say I was driven from my home in fear! Ha! More support money, publicity, AND my vacation with no backlash! Aloha!!"

 

[thedosbox]

For the benefit of those interested in what actual developers think of these videos, Anthony Burch (Gearbox writer) also acknowledged the criticism of Borderlands 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm0rrGBin5Q

So Borderlands 2 was highlighted in Anita Sarkeesian's series "Tropes Versus Women in Gaming", which I really like, and I'm really bummed that I fucked up and that I'm in the series. I'm not like "raaah, the series is bullshit"; it's completely legit, the reason she points out for it being problematic. […]

I think it's really bad to accept tropes, because … The problem is, you don't fall into a trope because you're hateful, or because you don't like women, or because you want to impress a particular social group or racial group or whatever. You fall into them because … the same reason you fall into any cliché, which is that they're easy.
[...]
And that's why I think it's really important, and that Anita Sarkeesian's videos are really important, is to be aware of those tropes, because you really have to actively try to avoid tropes. They're not a thing that you just choose to do, they're something you fall into.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Great, now tell me what he really thinks.

 

[Nebor]

I won't hold my breath for female characters being portrayed any differently in the Borderlands Pre-quel, which I've already preordered.

 

[davie jambo]

I won't hold my breath for female characters being portrayed any differently in the Borderlands Pre-quel, which I've already preordered.

I'd rather the woman in it were wearing next to nothing

 

[smackababy]

I can't wait for a game to come out with a realistic women character! For a week out of every month, you want to avoid her. She will get paid less than her male character counterparts, of course. And! If she is attractive, she will dress for attention then complain about 90% of it, as it it not from men she wants attention from (uglies).

 

[Blue_Max]

I can't wait for a game to come out with a realistic women character! For a week out of every month, you want to avoid her. She will get paid less than her male character counterparts, of course. And! If she is attractive, she will dress for attention then complain about 90% of it, as it it not from men she wants attention from (uglies).

Spot on, except for the women-are-paid-less myth that's been debunked hundreds of times. If anything, the numbers show that if she's in the same job as you, she's being paid 2% MORE for less work output.

I don't her feminists crying for their right to be garbage haulers and sewer workers, though they get paid more than her clean, temperature-controlled office job where she can show off her pretty shoes to the other women (the men don't give a crap about shoes.)

Of course we all know that if you show that kind of realism, the backlash will be scalding! :twisted:

 

[clok1966]

Yeah, you are probably right about some segment of those people, but consistently and systematically taking that path of least resistance to offense is integral to the art of trolling.

Also, I would suspect a large portion of the "death threats" are just generic "go kill yourself" and "I hope you die" type stuff.

Quit making sense, well thought out discussion have no place on the internet.

Wish i could make a point 1/10th as well as you.

 

[Aikouka]

For the benefit of those interested in what actual developers think of these videos, Anthony Burch (Gearbox writer) also acknowledged the criticism of Borderlands 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm0rrGBin5Q

I'm not sure if we're seeing the same thing in his writing. I mean... it sounds like he's saying the same thing that TotalBiscuit said about this whole debacle. What I mean is how he notes that the tropes represent lazy writing, and that we should avoid them if at all possible. I don't see anywhere that he says the tropes are detrimental to women as a gender. Heck, Gearbox included a rather rotund woman (Ellie) in Borderlands 2 to try to be inclusive of all shapes and sizes of women... especially when compared to the rather centerfold-proportioned Moxie (who happens to be Ellie's mother).

 

[thedosbox]

Going to quote you out of sequence for clarity:

I don't see anywhere that he says the tropes are detrimental to women as a gender.

Neither did I, and it's why that specific text was quoted and bolded.

What I mean is how he notes that the tropes represent lazy writing, and that we should avoid them if at all possible.

Precisely. Avoiding tropes makes for better games. Something the mouth breathers harassing her seem to think she's against. Either that, or they're happy with shitty writing. Or both.

 

[Blue_Max]

Precisely. Avoiding tropes makes for better games. Something the mouth breathers harassing her seem to think she's against. Either that, or they're happy with shitty writing. Or both.

*GASP* dosbox has just harassed us! Call the mods!!! 🙄

Seriously, there's no difference... why are feminists allowed to do exactly what they're destroying others over?

 

[thedosbox]

*GASP* dosbox has just harassed us! Call the mods!!! 🙄

Seriously, there's no difference... why are feminists allowed to do exactly what they're destroying others over?

Thought I'd check whether it'd be worth taking anyone off my ignore list given the conversation has been relatively civil recently. Guess not.

For those whose first language isn't English, note the wording: "the mouth breathers harassing her". In other words, if you're participating in the harasssment, feel free to consider yourself lumped in with the "shit bags" as GoodRevrnd described them.

Having said that, I find it amusing you can't tell the difference between a death threat with a home address attached, and a broad description of a group.

 

[Nebor]

Still haven't seen any police reports to verify that any of those "death threats" actually occurred.

 

[BoberFett]

Thought I'd check whether it'd be worth taking anyone off my ignore list given the conversation has been relatively civil recently. Guess not.

For those whose first language isn't English, note the wording: "the mouth breathers harassing her". In other words, if you're participating in the harasssment, feel free to consider yourself lumped in with the "shit bags" as GoodRevrnd described them.

Having said that, I find it amusing you can't tell the difference between a death threat with a home address attached, and a broad description of a group.

Poor, fragile little dosbox. You can't stand anyone disagreeing with you so you put them on ignore. 🙄

 

[Dumac]

Spot on, except for the women-are-paid-less myth that's been debunked hundreds of times. If anything, the numbers show that if she's in the same job as you, she's being paid 2% MORE for less work output.

1. Got a source?

2. Less work output? Based on what?

her clean, temperature-controlled office job where she can show off her pretty shoes to the other women (the men don't give a crap about shoes.)

You don't see this as demeaning?

I work with several women, and none of them make a habit of showing off their shoes, not that there is anything particularly wrong with that.

 

[nehalem256]

Precisely. Avoiding tropes makes for better games. Something the mouth breathers harassing her seem to think she's against. Either that, or they're happy with shitty writing. Or both.

Except her examples of tropes in no way shitty writing.

Such as

"Rescuing sex trafficked women"

"Sneaking* past some strippers"

*note that for some reason Anita didn't sneak past the strippers, as she was suppose to, but instead brutally killed them.

 

[Blue_Max]

1. Got a source?

2. Less work output? Based on what?

You don't see this as demeaning?

I work with several women, and none of them make a habit of showing off their shoes, not that there is anything particularly wrong with that.

Since it won't matter much, I just grabbed one of the first decent youtube videos on the subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyFjPHwF6To

Less work output will vary, but many office stats showed a difference, I can try to re-dig them out another day.
As soon as the job becomes physical in any way, the difference becomes obvious. I particularly liked the example of the American military when it came to carrying stretchers which used to be a two-man job. The women couldn't do it and it had to be turned into a FOUR-"person" job. Despite this, they're still paid 100% the same (which I think is deserved *if* they still face the same mortal danger the men are.)

And if you've ever worked in an office with mainly women, you'd notice the daily "fashion show" going on. I'm not saying that's wrong or bad, but it's pointless and counterproductive. I also noticed the women who didn't play along with it were pushed out of the social beehive and ostracized. I don't get why women are so damned mean to each other...

 

[Artorias]

Why do people care about what she says so much? She has an opinion and you can disagree with it, I don't see the need to endlessly bash her for it. Just ignore her and move on, anything else will just give her more attention which is what she ultimately wants.

 

[BoberFett]

Why do people care about what she says so much? She has an opinion and you can disagree with it, I don't see the need to endlessly bash her for it. Just ignore her and move on, anything else will just give her more attention which is what she ultimately wants.

Except that the gaming media at large latched onto her stupidity and started mindlessly regurgitating her garbage.

"Oh my god, gamers are awful people, just look at the awful things that are in games just because gamers are so awful."

Sorry, but you don't get to just ignore that and hope that your hobby isn't decimated by busybodies.

 

[Blue_Max]

You have a point... women (mostly) have been saying 'video games are bad and make men more icky' since the days of Pac-Man and RoboTron.

...but the guys (and a few cool girls) keep playing them, enjoying them, and flipping the bird in response. 😉 Hey... it's been an awesome 30 years for games!

 

[Artorias]

Except that the gaming media at large latched onto her stupidity and started mindlessly regurgitating her garbage.

"Oh my god, gamers are awful people, just look at the awful things that are in games just because gamers are so awful."

Sorry, but you don't get to just ignore that and hope that your hobby isn't decimated by busybodies.

What do you mean by decimated? I'm just curious what you think will happen.

I honestly don't think her or the gaming media has much influence on publishers or devs. The "official" gaming media is a joke to begin with and they are the ones promoting whatever she is against in the first place.

 

[BoberFett]

What do you mean by decimated? I'm just curious what you think will happen.

I honestly don't think her or the gaming media has much influence on publishers or devs. The "official" gaming media is a joke to begin with and they are the ones promoting whatever she is against in the first place.

Feminists and other social justice warriors have become good at cowing risk averse corporations into doing their bidding. What starts with one shrill feminist screaming about how gamers are just rapists-in-waiting who hate women and want to murder women in virtual worlds will evnetually have an affect on the choices we have in games if no contrary opinions are heard. The very idea of open world gaming means that yes, you may have the option to do something to women, and I don't want to see that changed.