Trinity review

[Olikan]

If you still don't get the memo even though it's been mentioned here many times before, the Trinity A8 will use a cut-down HD 7640G and eliminate pretty much all of AMD's IGP advantage against Intel's HD 4000 while still having a CPU that is far, far slower in comparison.

AGAIN with this?

 

[pelov]

That doesn't answer my question: how is HD 4000 not good enough when it's the same speed as HD 6620G/HD 7640G, a solution which was praised a year ago for its budget gaming potential?

Because AMD raised the bar again and now there's a better option for graphics at a lower price. This same argument persists even when comparing SB+discrete vs. Llano +/- crossfire or Trinity/IBHD4000. I'm not favoring one company over another, I just want the best gaming performance I can get without spending top dollar and good enough CPU performance with great battery life, I could give 2 shits if's a blue or red or green sticker on the laptop.

I don't care if my chip has 8 threads and can run cinebench in X.Y seconds. If I can buy a laptop that will give me the same performance for my workload (mainly web browsing, PDFs, some Office work) but better FPS and pushes higher quality for gaming at a lower price then that's the laptop I'll buy. Considering the biggest upgrade I'll get on mobile is SSD/GPU related, I could care less whether I'm running a dual core + hyperthreading or a 2-module/half FPU chip if they both give me the same performance outside of gaming. The one that does it at a lower price is the better option because I can put the money into something that I'll actually notice, like a better resolution screen or bigger battery or larger SSD.

Is the HD4000 a massive improvement? Yes. Is it enough for most people? Sure, but that doesn't mean there's not a better cheaper solution out there that makes an even better buy. That's why I'm hesitant to compare any laptops atm. We don't know the prices and options/specs yet. Trinity looks great on paper but if it's priced too high then I won't buy it and I'll probably grab a Llano + dGPU for crossfire or an i5 SB with a GT540.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

AGAIN with this?

Because it's the truth, and many people here can't handle the truth if they irrationally love a particular company.

AMD has lost nearly any advantage it had against Intel when it comes to the budget laptop market. HD 4000 is enough for people that want budget gaming, and at the same time people for people that want good processing power on the cheap.

Even if AMD was equal on both things (and not taking into account CPU matters more than GPU), Intel would still win by default because of brand recognition and competitive pricing. As I've said many times, if AMD wants to succeed on the mainstream market, they need to make a product that targets most consumers and excels in comparison to Intel in them. If they only make a product that's "as good", the only sales they'll get are from AMD fans (admittedly a very small market).

 

[Shaydza]

Doesn't it strike anybody that these tit for tat arguments are irrelevant until products come out with these processors?

If an AMD A10 comes out at the same price or close to an i7 laptop then it is a fail but if it comes in at the i3 to i5 level then it is a win.

Ultimately price will tell if this is a hit or miss.

 

[happysmiles]

we are all pretty much trying to pass time with arguments until we get our hands onto it

 

[pelov]

As I've said many times, if AMD wants to succeed on the mainstream market, they need to make a product that targets most consumers and excels in comparison to Intel in them.

They did this with Llano, gaining 3% total laptop market share in a single year. This time the HD4000 is far closer to the 7760G than the HD3000 was to 6620G but we still don't know the prices. If AMD's sleekbook with an A10 starts at $600 from HP then that's a very good price considering you get thicker notebooks with equal GPU performance from discrete GPUs for roughly the same price but Trinity beats them out in battery life.

As Shaydza mentioned already, it's all about price and price-to-performance and those two factors have to be compared to not just between the IB/Trinity chips but also the older gen Llano and SB variants as well. Considering the going prices for the last-gen laptops I have a hard time believing that either company will be able to peddle their newest hardware at high prices and as a result the SB/Llano based lappies will be absolute steals.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Because AMD raised the bar again and now there's a better option for graphics at a lower price. This same argument persists even when comparing SB+discrete vs. Llano +/- crossfire or Trinity/IBHD4000. I'm not favoring one company over another, I just want the best gaming performance I can get without spending top dollar and good enough CPU performance with great battery life, I could give 2 shits if's a blue or red or green sticker on the laptop.

I don't care if my chip has 8 threads and can run cinebench in X.Y seconds. If I can buy a laptop that will give me the same performance for my workload (mainly web browsing, PDFs, some Office work) but better FPS and pushes higher quality for gaming at a lower price then that's the laptop I'll buy. Considering the biggest upgrade I'll get on mobile is SSD/GPU related, I could care less whether I'm running a dual core + hyperthreading or a 2-module/half FPU chip if they both give me the same performance outside of gaming. The one that does it at a lower price is the better option because I can put the money into something that I'll actually notice, like a better resolution screen or bigger battery or larger SSD.

Is the HD4000 a massive improvement? Yes. Is it enough for most people? Sure, but that doesn't mean there's not a better cheaper solution out there that makes an even better buy. That's why I'm hesitant to compare any laptops atm. We don't know the prices and options/specs yet. Trinity looks great on paper but if it's priced too high then I won't buy it and I'll probably grab a Llano + dGPU for crossfire or an i5 SB with a GT540.

But they didn't. HD 7660G isn't enough for playing most games at High settings.

And the HD 4000 will start in $500 range laptops, while the HD 7660G will start in $600 range laptops. At the $500 range you'll have Trinity A8 featuring the HD 7640G, so again, your argument about pricing isn't accurate. And just so you don't go back to the "we don't know pricing yet so I'll assume AMD is cheaper" argument, Trinity and Ivy Bridge have the same 1000-unit pricing as before. The Ivy i3, i5, and i7 will cost OEMs the same amount as the SB versions. For Trinity what AMD did is bump the A8 back a bit: Trinity A10 replaces Llano A8, Trinity A8 replaces Llano A6, and so on. We already know the introduction and follow-up pricing for laptops that were featuring these a year ago, and we can easily apply that here.

 

[Schmide]

The reality is both AMD/Intel do their best not to eat their own. They each tier their processors for a premium to value segment.

Now will the 2/3rds graphics system on the A8 equate to 2/3rds performance and what will the lesser turbo and cache do to the i3? Enough speculation, that day will come.

 

[pelov]

And the HD 4000 will start in $500 range laptops, while the HD 7660G will start in $600 range laptops. At the $500 range you'll have Trinity A8 featuring the HD 7640G, so again, your argument about pricing isn't accurate.

Your entire argument revolves around pricing and that's something we know nothing about, particularly the i3 IB's and anything not A10 7660G Trinity. There's also newer IB i5 models coming out as well to throw into the mix.

AMD has made no secret about undercutting Intel's prices in the ultrabook/ultrathin market and they're approaching the thicker laptop segment the same way. Will Trinity be cheaper than the i3's and i5's? That we don't know. The only thing we know for certain is that AMD is undercutting the only available Intel IB chips and the prices are guaranteed to fluctuate as both Trinitys and dual core IBs are released. LOLWTFBBQAXEL, you're accusing me of doing the same exact thing that you're doing yet I've never purported to claim that the A10 Trinity chips ever be cheaper than the IB i3 chips. In fact I've said a hundred times over that we don't even have a release date on the i3's yet you're assuming you know the price? The only price we know of from the A10 Trinity chips is the sleekbook, a thin and thus more expensive laptop, at $600 standard. The Intel IB chips are currently $900 at a heavy discount but AMD's Trinity chips aren't even available yet.

So how about we all wait before we discuss the pricing and how terrible it is.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

They did this with Llano, gaining 3% total laptop market share in a single year. This time the HD4000 is far closer to the 7760G than the HD3000 was to 6620G but we still don't know the prices. If AMD's sleekbook with an A10 starts at $600 from HP then that's a very good price considering you get thicker notebooks with equal GPU performance from discrete GPUs for roughly the same price but Trinity beats them out in battery life.

As Shaydza mentioned already, it's all about price and price-to-performance and those two factors have to be compared to not just between the IB/Trinity chips but also the older gen Llano and SB variants as well. Considering the going prices for the last-gen laptops I have a hard time believing that either company will be able to peddle their newest hardware at high prices and as a result the SB/Llano based lappies will be absolute steals.

2.6%, to be exact.

BTW, that statistic is largely meaningless because all AMD did was get back market share after their horrible K8 and K10-arch laptops. Intel has 83.8% of the laptop market, not to mention AMD's gain could also be explained by their only product that is genuinely better than Intel's in most areas: Bobcat.

 

[pelov]

That's true, but 76% of all PC sales are laptops and mobile and not desktop, so despite falling in desktop sales AMD still managed to gain in overall x86 share due to how many laptops they sold. Neither Intel nor AMD seem to give a crap about the desktop anymore.

 

[Abwx]

But they didn't. HD 7660G isn't enough for playing most games at High settings.

And the HD 4000 will start in $500 range laptops, while the HD 7660G will start in $600 range laptops. At the $500 range you'll have Trinity A8 featuring the HD 7640G, so again, your argument about pricing isn't accurate. And just so you don't go back to the "we don't know pricing yet so I'll assume AMD is cheaper" argument, Trinity and Ivy Bridge have the same 1000-unit pricing as before. The Ivy i3, i5, and i7 will cost OEMs the same amount as the SB versions. For Trinity what AMD did is bump the A8 back a bit: Trinity A10 replaces Llano A8, Trinity A8 replaces Llano A6, and so on. We already know the introduction and follow-up pricing for laptops that were featuring these a year ago, and we can easily apply that here.

That s all LOL_WHAT_A_TROLL usual BS..

One more time , let s look at the real numbers , wich will
make your cost estimation ridiculous :

A 35W 4C/8T IB is 378$......

A lower part 35W 2C/4T IB i5 3320 is 225$.

And a full laptop for 500$ ??

At 2.6/3.3g the latter will have trouble competing...

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Your entire argument revolves around pricing and that's something we know nothing about, particularly the i3 IB's and anything not A10 7660G Trinity. There's also newer IB i5 models coming out as well to throw into the mix.

AMD has made no secret about undercutting Intel's prices in the ultrabook/ultrathin market and they're approaching the thicker laptop segment the same way. Will Trinity be cheaper than the i3's and i5's? That we don't know. The only thing we know for certain is that AMD is undercutting the only available Intel IB chips and the prices are guaranteed to fluctuate as both Trinitys and dual core IBs are released. LOLWTFBBQAXEL, you're accusing me of doing the same exact thing that you're doing yet I've never purported to claim that the A10 Trinity chips ever be cheaper than the IB i3 chips. In fact I've said a hundred times over that we don't even have a release date on the i3's yet you're assuming you know the price? The only price we know of from the A10 Trinity chips is the sleekbook, a thin and thus more expensive laptop, at $600 standard. The Intel IB chips are currently $900 at a heavy discount but AMD's Trinity chips aren't even available yet.

So how about we all wait before we discuss the pricing and how terrible it is.

LOL, keep parroting the same arguments. You probably won't admit that you were wrong, yet again, when it came to the pricing argument. The fact that the new CPUs will have the same unit pricing as before is a HUGE indicator when it comes to determining how much chassis featuring it will cost.

Speaking of which, there are already deals popping up for desktops featuring the Ivy Bridge Quad-Core i5 at only $500. That's the cheapest you'll find Sandy Bridge i5 desktops too, BTW. But hey, we all know Ivy Bridge will start in computers at $1000+, right?

I already told you the price range for the products. Whether you want to accept them or not is another thing entirely, but the fact is IB pricing will follow SB pricing.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

That's true, but 76% of all PC sales are laptops and mobile and not desktop, so despite falling in desktop sales AMD still managed to gain in overall x86 share due to how many laptops they sold. Neither Intel nor AMD seem to give a crap about the desktop anymore.

They managed to gain a meager 0.7% when it comes to overall sales. Are you suggesting that 0.7% means AMD is dominating? Get real. Intel is still ahead and will continue to be ahead. Now that their IGPs will be as good or nearly as good as AMD's, they'll have the (very small) budget gaming PC market cornered, too.

 

[Olikan]

Because it's the truth, and many people here can't handle the truth if they irrationally love a particular company.

...do you have an A8 triny and a 35W ivy?

yeah, i don't think so...tell me more about the truth

 

[pelov]

I already told you the price range for the products. Whether you want to accept them or not is another thing entirely, but the fact is IB pricing will follow SB pricing

Based on pure speculation and what you managed to pull out of your butt. What's even better is that you're accusing me of speculating on prices yet I've never done that but somehow I'm in the wrong here? A bit hypocritical, no?

If you're going to prop up claims that other people have supposedly said (yet they never did) so you have something to argue against then might I suggest a yelling at a wall. It'll get you much farther than showing your stupidity on these forums.

Accusing me of doing what you just did and then claiming I'm somehow wrong because you want me to be... Well done, sir.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

...do you have an A8 triny and a 35W ivy?

yeah, i don't think so...tell me more about the truth

Ridiculous "argument", if you can even call it that.

Do you have anything of substance to add?

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Based on pure speculation and what you managed to pull out of your butt. What's even better is that you're accusing me of speculating on prices yet I've never done that but somehow I'm in the wrong here? A bit hypocritical, no?

If you're going to prop up claims that other people have supposedly said (yet they never did) so you have something to argue against then might I suggest a yelling at a wall. It'll get you much farther than showing your stupidity on these forums.

Accusing me of doing what you just did and then claiming I'm somehow wrong because you want me to be... Well done, sir.

Nope. We already know IB's 1000-unit pricing.

 

[pelov]

Nope. We already know IB's 1000-unit pricing.

Oh, do we? on the i3's that we don't know the release date on? Or the i5's? Please link. And while you're at it, also link the comment where I said the Trinity A10s will be cheaper. I'd love to see them both.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

That s all LOL_WHAT_A_TROLL usual BS..

One more time , let s look at the real numbers , wich will
make your cost estimation ridiculous :

A 35W 4C/8T IB is 378$......

A lower part 35W 2C/4T IB i5 3320 is 225$.

And a full laptop for 500$ ??

At 2.6/3.3g the latter will have trouble competing...

In case you failed to read, I said Core i3. If you've gone to school, you'd know "3" is a different number from "5". And since this follows simple economics, the i3 has cheaper unit pricing than the i5.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Oh, do we? on the i3's that we don't know the release date on? Or the i5's? Please link. And while you're at it, also link the comment where I said the Trinity A10s will be cheaper. I'd love to see them both.

I already told you: same unit pricing as SB. Or are you too lazy to look that up?

As for your comment regarding the A10:

Is the HD4000 a massive improvement? Yes. Is it enough for most people? Sure, but that doesn't mean there's not a better cheaper solution out there that makes an even better buy.

Which there's not, because laptops featuring the A10 will cost more on average than laptops featuring the Core i3.

 

[pelov]

So you won't provide a link to the pricing of 1k units on chips without a release date (shocker) and you assume that I meant A10 Trinity when I said there's better graphical performance for a cheaper price? What if I meant that SB + GT540? or Llano crossfire? See what happens when you make baseless assumptions? You end up looking a little stupid.

Unit pricing on SB and IB aren't the same. If they were then Intel wouldn't be producing SBs and nobody would be buying them (they're still being produced and bought, btw). For the same reason we'll see Trinity more expensive than Llano.

I'm still waiting for both links

 

[AtenRa]

Trinity products (Laptops etc, not the APUs) prices will be close to the following,

A10 products will be between Core i7 and Core i5. Definitely bellow i7 but upwards of i5.
A8 will be close to or bellow the Core i5 Ivy's
A6 and A4 will sandwich the Core i3.
Also the A4 will be seen against the Intel Pentium products.

AMD believes that A10 is superior to i5 in Graphics, media playback and power efficiency and they will position it above it.

 

[blckgrffn]

Part of it is also graphics driver support. With trinity, are you going to be able to download and install normal Catalyst drivers?

If so, huge++ for compatibility with games.

Note, not say Catalyst drivers are perfect, but that they are updated more frequently than Intel's and have gaming as a primary focus vs the Enterprise desktop usage that Intel seems to favor.

I want to see what Trinity delivers on the desktop. Not sure it will be noteworthy, but I build many more desktops than help folks buy laptops.

I've had some great frustration with Optimus (not kicking in when a game is launched? dammit!)

 

[yottabit]

Am I the only one that's frustrated that all the e-tailers seem to market AMD Fusion/Trinity as a discrete GPU?

I'm tired of sorting laptops by Discrete GPU on Newegg and seeing AMD E-350s pop up next a Core i7 monster with a Geforce 560m

In contrast Intel HD3000/4000 laptops do not show up under discrete GPU filters

For the time being I'm still sticking on the cpu + gpu bandwagon. I just picked up a Lenovo y570 for $600 refurbished with an i7 2620qm and gt555m. There are some seemingly simple tasks I need to do on a daily basis (like expanding some pretty big excel spreadsheets) that actually let me benefit from all 8 threads. I almost took the leap on a discrete-less laptop this generation- but it was going to be for an IVB, not AMD... until they can get their CPU performance up, I really have no interest