Trinity prices leaked

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

You talk like OEM ceos and managers are complete idiots.... You really have no idea how the market works, additionally it seems you are unable to fathom the wants and interests of other people.

You hope the CPU engineers don't get their hands on radeon products? What century are you stuck in? Have you paid attention at all to, I don't know, the processor at the center of this topic? Who cares that the first two iterations of 'apus' aren't omgwtfbbqpwnz, they do what they are meant to do, and that is reach a very broad market at excellent pricing. My entire setup draws less power in a day than a single high end graphics card. In complete silence.

I don't know what consumers want? LOL.

I work in retail, kid. I've sold hundreds of laptops and desktops. I know very well what consumers want, and it's not a fast IGP because most consumers don't give two craps about running games on their computers.

AMD isn't attacking ''a very broad market'' because that market, like I just told you, doesn't give two craps about gaming on their computers so they'll just buy a Pentium, Core i3, or Core i5 instead. For every person that needs higher GPU performance I can show you two or three that need a faster CPU. AMD is marketing to gamers while Intel is marketing to everyone from home users, to office users, to engineers, to programmers, to video and photo editors, etc. It's no wonder they have much higher marketshare.

Right now AMD should just stick to do what they do excellently: GPUs. In terms of CPUs, for what most people want, Intel works better and that's why they sell more product.

I have absolutely no idea what this has to deal with Trinity prices, so let's drop it, Axel.
-ViRGE

 

[pelov]

In terms of CPUs, for what most people want, [ARM] works better and that's why they sell more product.

FTFY.

 

[Roland00Address]

I don't know what consumers want? LOL.

I work in retail, kid. I've sold hundreds of laptops and desktops. I know very well what consumers want, and it's not a fast IGP because most consumers don't give two craps about running games on their computers.

You aren't the only one who works retail, and that knows what they are talking about, and AMD has a place in many of the computers sold in retail.

AMD A8/A10 are roughly on par with the intel i3 for many type of cpu applications. They are also roughly the same price, so you get which ever of these two manufactures are on sale if you are just doing general cpu related tasks.

AMD A8/A10 are capable of gaming, yes they are crapper gaming computers but many parents, grandparents, and people on a budget come in a retail environment are not trying to get a computer that plays the game well as a primary concern, they are merely trying to play a game yet still stay inside their budget. For example "I am a single parent mom and we need a family desktop I also have a thirteen year old boy and he likes to play games (insert minecraft, diablo III, etc), my budget is $500 for the computer."

If you have a person who has $600 dollars or more budget and are not scared shitless of opening up the computer you walk them through installing a 7750 into an intel i3 or i5 system. If they are scared shitless explain you have a service department that will gladly do it for a fee, or sell them a prebuilt that costs $1000.

etc

There are many types of customers that come into a store, and AMD has a place catering to some of those customers.

Yet in your posts in various threads you seem to have all size fit all philosophy. Intel all the time, in all the situations, getting AMD is making a foolish decision.

 

[Rvenger]

I don't know what consumers want? LOL.

I work in retail, kid. I've sold hundreds of laptops and desktops. I know very well what consumers want, and it's not a fast IGP because most consumers don't give two craps about running games on their computers.

Been there, done that... Tigerdirect doesn't account for the whole retail market. It's up to the sales person to recommend to the customer and it seems that you have been misleading some. I can't tell you how many college kids wanted the ability to play games on their laptops and your statistic is plain wrong.

I hate to sound rude but it sounds like you don't listen to the consumer. lol


Thanks for being off topic and reported.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

A teenage retail employee feeding consumers erroneous information? lol.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Been there, done that... Tigerdirect doesn't account for the whole retail market. It's up to the sales person to recommend to the customer and it seems that you have been misleading some. I can't tell you how many college kids wanted the ability to play games on their laptops and your statistic is plain wrong.

I hate to sound rude but it sounds like you don't listen to the consumer. lol


Thanks for being off topic and reported.

The very few of those that want to game I'll just recommend an i3 or i5 +dGPU for a somewhat higher price. They get much higher CPU performance and higher GPU performance, so win-win.

Less than 1/10 people I sell laptops to tell me gaming is one of their main focuses, hence why AMD isn't really looking at the broad market. With Trinity this will continue as it's just a refresh of Llano. In terms of pricing AMD are being competitive, but not competitive enough to swing the consumer to buy their products. There's a laptop with a Llano A6 that's been on special on the store for $400 some times. That's the only AMD-equipped laptop that sells a lot, and even then that's not saying much because you can also get a laptop with a Core i3 at that same price.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Man, he's back?!

 

[pelov]

Man, he's back?!

Inorite? I think it's rather glorious. He usually starts a rant where he shows he knows little on the matter (like the above, for instance. If he were right AMD wouldn't have gained an entire near 3% total market share in a single year in mobile) then gets pounded on by the regulars only to pick up his things and disappear for a month or two and then come back.

It's like the circle of life by Elton John except with more flare.

 

[Arkadrel]

Do you have any proof of this?

The parts I mentioned can fit in any conventional mid-tower case, even a micro-atx case.

Also:
Celeron G530: $45
Radeon HD 6670 DDR5: $85
1x4GB DDR3-1333: $19
H61 motherboard: $60
Total: $209

AMD A10-5800K: $130
2x2GB DDR3-1600: $25
A55 motherboard: $60
Total: $214

Where is this supposedly higher platform cost? If you look online, prices say otherwise. If you want cheap gaming a Celeron G530 and an HD 6670 DDR5 will horribly smash an A10-5800K.

They both use next to no power, too.

Yes... the Intel Celeron G530 is a great CPU:

Slower than a Athlon II X2 25 (~11% differnce)

~7% faster than a Athlon II X2 250.

***edit: If you compair a Athlon II x2 250 vs a 3870k here on Anandtech, you see the 3870 kicks its ass pretty handly.



Im gonna go out on a limb here, and say that The CPU inside a LLano 3870 or a Trinity 5800,
would beat the Intel Celeron G530 in 99% of all CPU bound benchmarks.


Intel Celeron G530 + Radeon HD 6670 DDR5 = Much Slower CPU + equalish GPU.




Here is a A8-3870k Llano:

Look at the minimum FPS.
The G620 Celeron + 6670 has a lower minimum fps than the Llano's IGP does.
Look at the differnce in FPS avg. 46.1 vs 40.8 (12% differnce).


>>>> The IGP inside a Trinity is gonna be much much stronger than the one inside a Llano. <<<<<


In short your wrong about your arguments.
A "A10-5800K" system would beat a "Intel Celeron G520+ Radeon 6670" ,
not just in CPU tasks, but probably also in GPU tasks.

and have much superior performance in tasks that can be accelerated by the APU.

 

[inf64]

Good post Arkadrel .

 

[Rvenger]

Yes... the Intel Celeron G530 is a great CPU:

Slower than a Athlon II X2 25 (~11% differnce)

~7% faster than a Athlon II X2 250.

***edit: If you compair a Athlon II x2 250 vs a 3870k here on Anandtech, you see the 3870 kicks its ass pretty handly.



Im gonna go out on a limb here, and say that The CPU inside a LLano 3870 or a Trinity 5800,
would beat the Intel Celeron G530 in 99% of all CPU bound benchmarks.


Intel Celeron G530 + Radeon HD 6670 DDR5 = Much Slower CPU + equalish GPU.




Here is a A8-3870k Llano:

Look at the minimum FPS.
The G620 Celeron + 6670 has a lower minimum fps than the Llano's IGP does.
Look at the differnce in FPS avg. 46.1 vs 40.8 (12% differnce).


>>>> The IGP inside a Trinity is gonna be much much stronger than the one inside a Llano. <<<<<


In short your wrong about your arguments.
A "A10-5800K" system would beat a "Intel Celeron G520+ Radeon 6670" ,
not just in CPU tasks, but probably also in GPU tasks.

and have much superior performance in tasks that can be accelerated by the APU.

This is a good post. I just want to make clear that you were comparing a 6670 with DDR3 and not DDR5. I am not sure how much that actually equates to performance. The resolution above is 1024x768 so once you increase the resolution on a 6670 the FPS will start to tank.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yes... the Intel Celeron G530 is a great CPU:

Slower than a Athlon II X2 25 (~11% differnce)

~7% faster than a Athlon II X2 250.

***edit: If you compair a Athlon II x2 250 vs a 3870k here on Anandtech, you see the 3870 kicks its ass pretty handly.



Im gonna go out on a limb here, and say that The CPU inside a LLano 3870 or a Trinity 5800,
would beat the Intel Celeron G530 in 99% of all CPU bound benchmarks.


Intel Celeron G530 + Radeon HD 6670 DDR5 = Much Slower CPU + equalish GPU.




Here is a A8-3870k Llano:

Look at the minimum FPS.
The G620 Celeron + 6670 has a lower minimum fps than the Llano's IGP does.
Look at the differnce in FPS avg. 46.1 vs 40.8 (12% differnce).


>>>> The IGP inside a Trinity is gonna be much much stronger than the one inside a Llano. <<<<<


In short your wrong about your arguments.
A "A10-5800K" system would beat a "Intel Celeron G520+ Radeon 6670" ,
not just in CPU tasks, but probably also in GPU tasks.

and have much superior performance in tasks that can be accelerated by the APU.

I am not familiar enough with the celeron to argue that it wont be overmatched by an A10 on the CPU side. I do not agree with you that the igp in either Llano or Trinity is a match for a 6670 DDR5.

I also dont see how you are interpreting the graph you showed. What the graph shows is that the minumum FPS is 23 vs 24 for the G620/discrete vs igp(probably within measurement error), while the average is 46.1 to 38.6 in favor of the discrete card. And this is a ddr3 version,not the DDR5 that was being discussed.

In any case, both solutions are pretty anemic for gaming: barely playable framerates at 1024x768, low settings, so I would not interpret this to mean that any igp is more than barely adequate for gaming on modern titles.

 

[frozentundra123456]

This is a good post. I just want to make clear that you were comparing a 6670 with DDR3 and not DDR5. I am not sure how much that actually equates to performance. The resolution above is 1024x768 so once you increase the resolution on a 6670 the FPS will start to tank.

Would the FPS not tank even more on the igp, especially considering it will have bandwidth limitations, as you increase the resolution??

 

[Lepton87]

I am not familiar enough with the celeron to argue that it wont be overmatched by an A10 on the CPU side. I do not agree with you that the igp in either Llano or Trinity is a match for a 6670 DDR5.

It definately will be worse than A10. Just look at the benchmarks.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/399?vs=406


Pentium G620 is clocked 200MHz higher and has 50% more L3 and it's already strugling against A8-3850.

 

[Hatisherrif]

The Pentium is clocked 300MHz lower than the A8. Just sayin'.

 

[Lepton87]

The Pentium is clocked 300MHz lower than the A8. Just sayin'.

I was comparing it to the celeron G530 not A8.

 

[frozentundra123456]

It definately will be worse than A10. Just look at the benchmarks.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/399?vs=406


Pentium G620 is clocked 200MHz higher and has 50% more L3 and it's already strugling against A8-3850.

I wont dispute that the A8 cpu-wise is faster. The main point of the posts however was gaming with the celeron/DDR5-6670 vs the apu. In that case I am not sure the results will be so clear, and I didnt feel the poster was interpreting the FPS graph accurately.

On the desktop, I just dont see the point of an APU. It is just too easy to get an intel quad and a discrete card and get better performance in both areas and be more future proof. I know the AMD fans are going to say the apu is "good enough", but if you are going to spend the money to get into PC gaming, I would spend enough to get a fairly competent system that will allow you to play any title at decent setting for some time to come.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Yes... the Intel Celeron G530 is a great CPU:

Slower than a Athlon II X2 25 (~11% differnce)

~7% faster than a Athlon II X2 250.

***edit: If you compair a Athlon II x2 250 vs a 3870k here on Anandtech, you see the 3870 kicks its ass pretty handly.



Im gonna go out on a limb here, and say that The CPU inside a LLano 3870 or a Trinity 5800,
would beat the Intel Celeron G530 in 99% of all CPU bound benchmarks.


Intel Celeron G530 + Radeon HD 6670 DDR5 = Much Slower CPU + equalish GPU.




Here is a A8-3870k Llano:

Look at the minimum FPS.
The G620 Celeron + 6670 has a lower minimum fps than the Llano's IGP does.
Look at the differnce in FPS avg. 46.1 vs 40.8 (12% differnce).


>>>> The IGP inside a Trinity is gonna be much much stronger than the one inside a Llano. <<<<<


In short your wrong about your arguments.
A "A10-5800K" system would beat a "Intel Celeron G520+ Radeon 6670" ,
not just in CPU tasks, but probably also in GPU tasks.

and have much superior performance in tasks that can be accelerated by the APU.

LOL. Keep making up arguments where they don't exist. Also, the Celeron G530/540 is faster than any Athlon II X2.

What part about the fact that I said for cheap gaming my recommendation would work better? Or do you actually think most games are made to handle heavy multi-threading efficiently now-a-days? They're not. Games want high single-threaded performance, and that's exactly where Intel shines.

See where the Pentium G630 is positioned? Exactly.

And you're being completely dishonest by putting up some benchmarks that feature the DDR3 version of the 6670. The DDR5 version is 20%-40% faster, therefore making your whole argument false.

 

[Hubb1e]

How many Celerons paired with capable graphics cards have you seen at retail? None. So the point is only relevent if you are building it yourself where yes, a Celeron plus a 6670 could beat an A10 in GPU limited games. But the A10 clocks a full 1.8ghz faster than the Celeron and has an extra 2 half cores. The A10 will destroy the Celeron in CPU benchmarks. Who cares about IPC if you're almost at 2ghz faster clock. In CPU bound games such as Starcraft and BF3 multiplayer the A10 will pull away. The Celeron is not even playable on BF3 multiplayer.

Roland00Address has it right

"I am a single parent mom and we need a family desktop I also have a thirteen year old boy and he likes to play games (insert minecraft, diablo III, etc), my budget is $500 for the computer."

In this case the A10 is the much better buy because you will NEVER find a Celeron and 6670 DDR5 in retail. The 6670 is considered a pretty high end card in a retail environment and will only come in much more expensive gaming focused comptuers. The mom has a choice between an i3 with a 6450 in it, or maybe an i5 with HD2000 or HD2500 graphics. In this case the A10 is the better buy because it offers a better rounded package for the average family.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

How many Celerons paired with capable graphics cards have you seen at retail? None. So the point is only relevent if you are building it yourself where yes, a Celeron plus a 6670 could beat an A10 in GPU limited games. But the A10 clocks a full 1.8ghz faster than the Celeron and has an extra 2 half cores. The A10 will destroy the Celeron in CPU benchmarks. Who cares about IPC if you're almost at 2ghz faster clock. In CPU bound games such as Starcraft and BF3 multiplayer the A10 will pull away. The Celeron is not even playable on BF3 multiplayer.

Roland00Address has it right

In this case the A10 is the much better buy because you will NEVER find a Celeron and 6670 DDR5 in retail. The 6670 is considered a pretty high end card in a retail environment and will only come in much more expensive gaming focused comptuers. The mom has a choice between an i3 with a 6450 in it, or maybe an i5 with HD2000 or HD2500 graphics. In this case the A10 is the better buy because it offers a better rounded package for the average family.

I thought this was Anandtech forums, where people made their own computers? This isn't Walmart forums. Like I said before, I don't care for OEMs and neither do most enthusiasts. Or did you conveniently miss where I said "enthusiasts looking for cheap gaming"?

And mom and pop don't care about gaming on their computers. That's a simple fact you're forgetting. If they did care about it, Llano and Trinity would be flying off the shelves.

Also, the A10 is clocked so high because it's based on a crappy architecture. AMD is repeating the same mistake Intel did with Netburst.

Again, for the price, an enthusiast that wants decent gaming for very cheap is better getting a Celeron/Pentium + dGPU than an A10. One other thing you need to take into account is that since the new IGP will be around 20% faster than the old, and the old IGP was severely memory bandwidth starved, the new one will be even more so. You'll likely need DDR3-1866 memory to take full advantage of the IGP, which does cost more than normal DDR3-1333.

Axel, enough already.
-ViRGE

 

[pelov]

I thought this was Anandtech forums, where people made their own computers? This isn't Walmart forums. Like I said before, I don't care for OEMs and neither do most enthusiasts. Or did you conveniently miss where I said "enthusiasts looking for cheap gaming"?

This is the Anandtech forums, where people are smart enough to realize that regular consumers and OEMs make up the majority of sales and dictate the trends of the market. It's a place where the members are knowledgeable not just with respect to the hardware and software but its direction as well.

Well, most of the members.

 

[OCGuy]

Yep.

And to think that a few months ago people were saying that we were still 3-4 years away from seeing an APU capable of playing games at 1080p with decent frame rates and settings. If you go by the graphs above, we'll have reached that milestone by Kaveri next year.

What I dislike, though, is that their on-die GPUs fair far better on the desktop than they do on laptops. That TDP hamstring really kicks 'em in the butt

I wouldnt call any of those games playable.

 

[alexruiz]

The very few of those that want to game I'll just recommend an i3 or i5 +dGPU for a somewhat higher price...

Yeah, like the "killer" gaming machine that you have in your sig, right?
That is why everytime someone tells me that my AMD machine sucks at gaming, and I look at their setup, and compare it to mine, I cannot avoid laughing...

On a different topic, this is also another reason why you don't trust the blue shirts. For the immense majority of people, a SSD upgrade will improve the everyday computing experience like no processor ever could. But hey, here is one of those "experts" that knows what the customers want.

Does intel pay you by the post to be this fanatic?

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

This is the Anandtech forums, where people are smart enough to realize that regular consumers and OEMs make up the majority of sales and dictate the trends of the market. It's a place where the members are knowledgeable not just with respect to the hardware and software but its direction as well.

Well, most of the members.

It seems like in your case it's where some don't see the fact that most consumers don't give two craps about gaming on computers.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Yeah, like the "killer" gaming machine that you have in your sig, right?
That is why everytime someone tells me that my AMD machine sucks at gaming, and I look at their setup, and compare it to mine, I cannot avoid laughing...

On a different topic, this is also another reason why you don't trust the blue shirts. For the immense majority of people, a SSD upgrade will improve the everyday computing experience like no processor ever could. But hey, here is one of those "experts" that knows what the customers want.

Does intel pay you by the post to be this fanatic?

An AMD CPU machine sucks at gaming, that is. I will be buying an HD 7950 in around a month. AMD's GPUs are just fine.

Why would Average Joe go for an AMD APU when he doesn't need to game, again? Intel is just as competitive in price, and given the choice the avg. consumer will go with Intel by default.