Toyota halts planned U.S. based manufacturing of Prius

[SoundTheSurrender]

Yeah American cars are really on par with foreign ones lol.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Jap is a racial slur, dipsht. People in Off Topic have gotten a vacation for using it, just as you and Spidey07 should have. As a Japanese American, I'm telling you this.

In Japan itself, most Japanese are apathetic about the term, according to a 2004 study.

Is Toyota a Japanese car company, or Japanese-American car company?

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: boomerang
I love the smell of mistaken jap car fanboi's in the evening. You know, one time we had a forum bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I booted up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' fanboi body. The smell, you know that misguided smell, the whole forum. Smelled like... victory.

I really don't think anybody is going to take what you say seriously as long as you call them "Jap cars". This isn't 1950, calling people "Japs" makes you look kind of slow.

I just got a little carried away watching this thread progress. However, the word you have a distaste for was used already in the thread, I just picked up on it in a poor attempt at a little humor. I guess if I'd put it in quotes as you did, you'd have found it more palatable.

I feel people should buy whatever they feel is the best vehicle for them. Regardless of who manufactures it. But defending that same vehicle maker as the best or the greatest, even when presented with evidence to the contrary, then still not backing down and proceeding to present opinion as fact, is truly just sad.

In the end, what does it matter? Bragging rights for fanboi's?

Jap is a racial slur, dipsht. People in Off Topic have gotten a vacation for using it, just as you and Spidey07 should have. As a Japanese American, I'm telling you this.

FYI JD Power and Associates ranks Toyota/Lexus tops in overall quality for 2008, only behind Porsche. Only one that ranked equally out of the Big 3 was Mercury. Read.

Lexus is the only 5 star rating for Dependability. Only domestics that hung with 4 star Toyota/Honda were Lincoln, Cadillac, Mercury, and Buick. Read.

I used it in reference to cars. Are you here to represent cars? Do cars have feelings? But thank you for the information, however it would have been better presented by not swearing at me in the process. Not to worry though, I'm not thin-skinned.

Now that you have explained your heritage, I understand why it would be so important to you for Japanese car manufacturers to retain their superiority.

This is not a serious subject to me, I'm truly sorry it's so important to you.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: boomerang

I used it in reference to cars. Are you here to represent cars? Do cars have feelings? But thank you for the information, however it would have been better presented by not swearing at me in the process. Not to worry though, I'm not thin-skinned.

Now that you have explained your heritage, I understand why it would be so important to you for Japanese car manufacturers to retain their superiority.

This is not a serious subject to me, I'm truly sorry it's so important to you.

You really should have quit while you were behind.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

The problem with CR is that reviews are subjective and will be influenced by the personal opinions of the reviewer. CR has long had the reputation of being biased towards foreign car makers. Though of late they have been giving domestics better marks.

As to their quality surveys, CR does not have the broad based reach that JD Powers has, as they only survey their readers.

Exactly right, and I'm one of the CR subscribers that fills out the annual surveys.

It's VERY subjective, and frankly most people wouldn't know a decent car if it bit them in the ass.

I refuse to let a soccer mom pick my car for me.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Lexus is the only 5 star rating for Dependability. Only domestics that hung with 4 star Toyota/Honda were Lincoln, Cadillac, Mercury, and Buick. Read.

At least it shows that the common stated theme of, 'domestics bad, Japanese good' is bullshit.

Now that we have established that some domestics are as good as Japanese makes in reliability, I would suggest people do a Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) comparison on these cars. You will be surprised to learn that over a 5 year period the domestics are cheaper to own. TCO takes into account all possible expected costs, including resale value, breakdown, routine maintenance, insurance, fuel consumed etc.

If I was counting my pennies I would go with a domestic with high reliability.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: spidey07
Consumer reports is bullcrap car wise. Every manufacturer uses JD Power as their own internal benchmarks. This brings American manufacturers upto or better than their jap counterparts.

They're not crap just because they don't rate American manufacturers as high as "Jap" car companies. Honesty is not the same thing as pandering to biased fan boys.

Rainsford, I have very intimate working knowledge of the auto industry. When I say the manufacturers use JD Power as their internal metrics that is fact. Consumer reports never enters into their manufacturing or quality control because it's considered bullcrap and not based on reality. Sure marketing will use CR, but not the manufacturing/engineering side.

The American manufacturers are not quite there yet.
Text

Lexus once again stands alone atop a closely watched ranking of vehicle dependability after Buick slipped from the No. 1 spot it shared with the Japanese luxury brand last year, J.D. Power and Associates said Thursday.

It's the 14th straight year Toyota Motor Corp.'s high-end brand has held the top position in the annual study, which measures problems experienced by the original owners of vehicles after three years. Lexus had 120 problems per 100 vehicles, down from 145 last year.

"That's a pretty good track record," said Dave Sargent, J.D. Power's vice president of automotive research. "They benefited to some degree ... where a couple of their very important models in their second year on the market -- the ES and the RX, which together account for over two-thirds of lexus sales -- both improved significantly."
Buick, owned by GM, fell to sixth place in this year's study with 163 problems, although its now-discontinued Buick Century was the top-ranked vehicle in the midsize car segment.

Broken out by segment, Lexus took top honors in six categories for its IS 300, ES 300 and LS 300 sedans, the SC 430 coupe, and the GX 470 and LX 470 utility vehicles. Toyota led four categories and tied Honda for a fifth. Toyota's Prius hybrid was the top-ranked vehicle in the compact car segment.
Buick spokeswoman Debbie Frakes said J.D. Power's study is only one of several that the company focuses on.

"Obviously we're disappointed not to have been at the top, but as a brand we consistently rank high in many, many quality studies," she said.

The No. 1 problem cited in the study, based on responses from more than 52,000 original owners of 2005 model-year vehicles, was wind noise, followed by noisy brakes, pulling to the left or right, dashboard issues and window fogging. The study weights all problems equally?

Freaking wind noise? Noisy brakes? Window fogging? These are major problems with a car? This whole survey is ridiculous.

I'm curious, did you figure no one would click on the link and notice you actually deleted a paragraph right from the middle of your quote? The one that puts Mercury and Cadillac ahead of Toyota and Honda.

Toyota did a great job with Lexus though, since they are a decent amount ahead (120 vs 151).

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: spidey07
Consumer reports is bullcrap car wise. Every manufacturer uses JD Power as their own internal benchmarks. This brings American manufacturers upto or better than their jap counterparts.

They're not crap just because they don't rate American manufacturers as high as "Jap" car companies. Honesty is not the same thing as pandering to biased fan boys.

Rainsford, I have very intimate working knowledge of the auto industry. When I say the manufacturers use JD Power as their internal metrics that is fact. Consumer reports never enters into their manufacturing or quality control because it's considered bullcrap and not based on reality. Sure marketing will use CR, but not the manufacturing/engineering side.

The American manufacturers are not quite there yet.
Text

Lexus once again stands alone atop a closely watched ranking of vehicle dependability after Buick slipped from the No. 1 spot it shared with the Japanese luxury brand last year, J.D. Power and Associates said Thursday.

It's the 14th straight year Toyota Motor Corp.'s high-end brand has held the top position in the annual study, which measures problems experienced by the original owners of vehicles after three years. Lexus had 120 problems per 100 vehicles, down from 145 last year.

"That's a pretty good track record," said Dave Sargent, J.D. Power's vice president of automotive research. "They benefited to some degree ... where a couple of their very important models in their second year on the market -- the ES and the RX, which together account for over two-thirds of lexus sales -- both improved significantly."
Buick, owned by GM, fell to sixth place in this year's study with 163 problems, although its now-discontinued Buick Century was the top-ranked vehicle in the midsize car segment.

Broken out by segment, Lexus took top honors in six categories for its IS 300, ES 300 and LS 300 sedans, the SC 430 coupe, and the GX 470 and LX 470 utility vehicles. Toyota led four categories and tied Honda for a fifth. Toyota's Prius hybrid was the top-ranked vehicle in the compact car segment.
Buick spokeswoman Debbie Frakes said J.D. Power's study is only one of several that the company focuses on.

"Obviously we're disappointed not to have been at the top, but as a brand we consistently rank high in many, many quality studies," she said.

The No. 1 problem cited in the study, based on responses from more than 52,000 original owners of 2005 model-year vehicles, was wind noise, followed by noisy brakes, pulling to the left or right, dashboard issues and window fogging. The study weights all problems equally?

Freaking wind noise? Noisy brakes? Window fogging? These are major problems with a car? This whole survey is ridiculous.

I'm curious, did you figure no one would click on the link and notice you actually deleted a paragraph right from the middle of your quote? The one that puts Mercury and Cadillac ahead of Toyota and Honda.

Toyota did a great job with Lexus though, since they are a decent amount ahead (120 vs 151).

No, I'm just pointing out that it's not true that domestics are as good as japanese cars.
Lexus(Toyota) is number one for quality in the JD Power ratings for 14 years in a row.
There is just no way to spin this as American cars are as good as japanese, so quit trying.

What I would like to see are the japanese ratings of auto quality, wonder how those would turn out?

 

[Zebo]

People are perhaps realizing Prius does not make sense till gas hits $12 a gallon and cars like the Aveo and Accent are have a much lower cost of ownership. I doubt it though I think it's just the economy people arnt buying anything.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
Toyota is the best automobile company in the world.

Fixed for you.

Hardly. They've sacrificed a lot of quality to get to their current position. They were number one in recalls last year. I wasn't really impressed when I was in the new Camry. But they have one major advantage: perception.

Honda is probably the best, although their focus is a bit different. I don't think you can get more simplistic than Honda. Aside from color, you may have, what, a half dozen options to choose from on a Honda?

Is it ok to admit there are issues? I'm sure Ford/Chrysler/GM all have huge apparent issues that they feel shouldn't be recalled because they can't afford it.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: marincounty
No, I'm just pointing out that it's not true that domestics are as good as japanese cars.
Lexus(Toyota) is number one for quality in the JD Power ratings for 14 years in a row.
There is just no way to spin this as American cars are as good as japanese, so quit trying.

What I would like to see are the japanese ratings of auto quality, wonder how those would turn out?

Except last year Buick tied Lexus and it's only Lexus. It's not Toyota itself or Scion -- just Lexus. You ignored that Toyota is 4th, Acura 5th, Honda 9th and Scion is below average. You're down to one division of one brand that beats domestics, yet you ignore all of the domestics in between and above them.

This would be everyone who is above the industry average:

Lexus
Mercury
Cadillac
Toyota
Acura
Buick
BMW
Lincoln
Honda
Jaguar
Porsche
Mitsubishi
Hyundai
Ford
Infiniti

If you were actually right, several of those listed above wouldn't be there, while some that aren't there would be. No one is saying Toyota or Honda aren't good companies, just that there are people who blindly follow them and don't give any credit whatsoever to domestic brands.

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
Toyota is the best automobile company in the world.

Fixed for you.

Hardly. They've sacrificed a lot of quality to get to their current position. They were number one in recalls last year. I wasn't really impressed when I was in the new Camry. But they have one major advantage: perception.

Honda is probably the best, although their focus is a bit different. I don't think you can get more simplistic than Honda. Aside from color, you may have, what, a half dozen options to choose from on a Honda?

Is it ok to admit there are issues? I'm sure Ford/Chrysler/GM all have huge apparent issues that they feel shouldn't be recalled because they can't afford it.

Sure, but the problem is perception. You have people like marincounty who seem to think no one can touch the Japanese (just Toyota and Honda really) regardless of how many studies/reports/surveys are done on them and put domestics in the same league. Let's face it though, it's only GM and Ford. Chrysler is just terrible. Daimler didn't really do a thing to improve them over the years.

 

[Thump553]

It would be very interesting to get some input from someone who has shopped for a Prius in the last month or two-to see if the dealers actually have any in stock (wasn't the case last summer) and secondly, if they are actually dealing on them now.

In ended up with nice private party used car deal that should tide me over until the next generation of fuel efficient vehicles. We are pretty happy with the Prius (standard audio system not up to my admittedly high audio standards and the highway ride could be smoother are my only two complaints) but I'm looking at it as a benchmark that the others will seek to surpass.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: marincounty
No, I'm just pointing out that it's not true that domestics are as good as japanese cars.
Lexus(Toyota) is number one for quality in the JD Power ratings for 14 years in a row.
There is just no way to spin this as American cars are as good as japanese, so quit trying.

What I would like to see are the japanese ratings of auto quality, wonder how those would turn out?

Except last year Buick tied Lexus and it's only Lexus. It's not Toyota itself or Scion -- just Lexus. You ignored that Toyota is 4th, Acura 5th, Honda 9th and Scion is below average. You're down to one division of one brand that beats domestics, yet you ignore all of the domestics in between and above them.

This would be everyone who is above the industry average:

Lexus
Mercury
Cadillac
Toyota
Acura
Buick
BMW
Lincoln
Honda
Jaguar
Porsche
Mitsubishi
Hyundai
Ford
Infiniti

If you were actually right, several of those listed above wouldn't be there, while some that aren't there would be. No one is saying Toyota or Honda aren't good companies, just that there are people who blindly follow them and don't give any credit whatsoever to domestic brands.

Buick tied Lexus -last year. Where are they now? 6th. Lexus #1 for 14 years straight.
This is the JD Power study, which I don't even think is reliable.
The Consumer Reports studies show a much greater advantage for japanese cars.
I'm not saying American companies don't make some good cars, I'm just saying they are still not as reliable as japanese cars, and the studies show just that.

Look at Consumers ratings of problems for cars that are five years old, then get back to me.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: marincounty
No, I'm just pointing out that it's not true that domestics are as good as japanese cars.
Lexus(Toyota) is number one for quality in the JD Power ratings for 14 years in a row.
There is just no way to spin this as American cars are as good as japanese, so quit trying.

What I would like to see are the japanese ratings of auto quality, wonder how those would turn out?

Except last year Buick tied Lexus and it's only Lexus. It's not Toyota itself or Scion -- just Lexus. You ignored that Toyota is 4th, Acura 5th, Honda 9th and Scion is below average. You're down to one division of one brand that beats domestics, yet you ignore all of the domestics in between and above them.

This would be everyone who is above the industry average:

Lexus
Mercury
Cadillac
Toyota
Acura
Buick
BMW
Lincoln
Honda
Jaguar
Porsche
Mitsubishi
Hyundai
Ford
Infiniti

If you were actually right, several of those listed above wouldn't be there, while some that aren't there would be. No one is saying Toyota or Honda aren't good companies, just that there are people who blindly follow them and don't give any credit whatsoever to domestic brands.

Buick tied Lexus -last year. Where are they now? 6th. Lexus #1 for 14 years straight.
This is the JD Power study, which I don't even think is reliable.
The Consumer Reports studies show a much greater advantage for japanese cars.
I'm not saying American companies don't make some good cars, I'm just saying they are still not as reliable as japanese cars, and the studies show just that.

Look at Consumers ratings of problems for cars that are five years old, then get back to me.

So let me get this straight, we start off with the latest CR report that says Ford is on par with the Japanese automakers, with GM getting mixed reviews (which is expect, since most of their line is new), yet you argue semantics there. Next the JD Power survey is used, which of the top 10, it's split evenly between the Japanese and domestics, but you dismiss that one (real shocking...)

Also, GM and Ford have made their biggest changes in less than five years. Add to that, only recently CR stopped using their BS bias with Toyota. In addition to that, almost every company has replaced every car in their line. The names may be the same on some, but they're all brand new.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: marincounty
No, I'm just pointing out that it's not true that domestics are as good as japanese cars.
Lexus(Toyota) is number one for quality in the JD Power ratings for 14 years in a row.
There is just no way to spin this as American cars are as good as japanese, so quit trying.

What I would like to see are the japanese ratings of auto quality, wonder how those would turn out?

Except last year Buick tied Lexus and it's only Lexus. It's not Toyota itself or Scion -- just Lexus. You ignored that Toyota is 4th, Acura 5th, Honda 9th and Scion is below average. You're down to one division of one brand that beats domestics, yet you ignore all of the domestics in between and above them.

This would be everyone who is above the industry average:

Lexus
Mercury
Cadillac
Toyota
Acura
Buick
BMW
Lincoln
Honda
Jaguar
Porsche
Mitsubishi
Hyundai
Ford
Infiniti

If you were actually right, several of those listed above wouldn't be there, while some that aren't there would be. No one is saying Toyota or Honda aren't good companies, just that there are people who blindly follow them and don't give any credit whatsoever to domestic brands.

Buick tied Lexus -last year. Where are they now? 6th. Lexus #1 for 14 years straight.
This is the JD Power study, which I don't even think is reliable.
The Consumer Reports studies show a much greater advantage for japanese cars.
I'm not saying American companies don't make some good cars, I'm just saying they are still not as reliable as japanese cars, and the studies show just that.

Look at Consumers ratings of problems for cars that are five years old, then get back to me.

So let me get this straight, we start off with the latest CR report that says Ford is on par with the Japanese automakers, with GM getting mixed reviews (which is expect, since most of their line is new), yet you argue semantics there. Next the JD Power survey is used, which of the top 10, it's split evenly between the Japanese and domestics, but you dismiss that one (real shocking...)

Also, GM and Ford have made their biggest changes in less than five years. Add to that, only recently CR stopped using their BS bias with Toyota. In addition to that, almost every company has replaced every car in their line. The names may be the same on some, but they're all brand new.

Here's another link for you:
Text

Notice the conclusion: "Still, Japanese cars are the most reliable overall, leading 15 of 16 categories in Consumer Reports' predicted reliability ratings."

Ford's three nameplates - Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury - lead the domestic automakers and continue to pull away from the rest of Detroit. Except for some truck-based vehicles, almost all Ford products are now average or better. Excluding those, Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers. The Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan continued to rank among the most reliable family cars. The freshened Ford Focus sedan rated above average, a vast improvement from when the new model debuted in 2000 with below-average reliability.

Still, Japanese cars are the most reliable overall, leading 15 of 16 categories in Consumer Reports' predicted reliability ratings. The Scion xD has the best predicted reliability score for all new cars with about 80% fewer problems than the average model.

Findings are based on responses on more than 1.4 million vehicles owned or leased by subscribers to Consumer Reports or its web site, www.ConsumerReports.org, the biggest response in the Annual Car Reliability Survey's history. The survey was conducted in the spring of 2008 by Consumer Reports' National Survey Research Center and covered model years 1999 to 2008.

Consumer Reports' expert team of statisticians and automotive engineers used the survey data to predict reliability of new 2009 models. Predicted reliability is CR's forecast of how well models currently on sale are likely to hold up. To calculate predicted-reliability ratings, CR averages the overall reliability scores (used car verdicts) for the most recent three model years, provided that the model remained unchanged in that period and also didn't substantially change for 2009. If a model was new or redesigned in the past couple of years, one or two years' data may be used, or if that's all that's available.

Consumer Reports Annual Car Reliability Survey is used in determining which makes and models are recommended to consumers by CR. Consumer Reports recommends only models that have performed well in tests conducted at its 327-acre Auto Test Center in Connecticut, and that have average or better predicted reliability based on its annual survey. In addition, vehicles must perform well in government or insurance-industry crash and rollover tests, if tested, in order to be recommended. Occasionally, Consumer Reports may recommend a redesigned model too new to have compiled a reliability record if the previous generation, and the manufacturer's reliability track record has been consistently outstanding, and if the model meets the other criteria.
Consumer Reports is one of the most trusted sources for information and advice on consumer products and services. CR has the most comprehensive auto-test program of any American magazine or web site; CR's auto experts have decades of experience in driving, testing, and reporting on cars.


Interesting, the Scion xD is the most reliable of any new car, that is Toyota's economy line.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
When oil goes back to $200 and gas to $10 in the near future, demand will go back up.

That's my thought as well.

 

[Strk]

You do realize you just posted an article based on the report that we already discussed? Hell, you're quoting the same passages, including the one where it says Ford is on par with them, which adds that a few of their truck-based vehicles are exceptions.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Strk
You do realize you just posted an article based on the report that we already discussed? Hell, you're quoting the same passages, including the one where it says Ford is on par with them, which adds that a few of their truck-based vehicles are exceptions.

Yes, because you seem to lack the ability to read.

"Still, Japanese cars are the most reliable overall, leading 15 of 16 categories in Consumer Reports' predicted reliability ratings"

 

[Zebo]

their trucks are week still. We have put all our R&D into them getting outstanding mileage (compared to tundra and titans) and reliability. Plus we have horns that don't embarrass you when you hit it.

 

[sandorski]

"Initial Quality" is bupkiss. True Quality is what condition a car is in 2-3 years and how much time the car has spent in the Shop.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Strk
You do realize you just posted an article based on the report that we already discussed? Hell, you're quoting the same passages, including the one where it says Ford is on par with them, which adds that a few of their truck-based vehicles are exceptions.

Yes, because you seem to lack the ability to read.

"Still, Japanese cars are the most reliable overall, leading 15 of 16 categories in Consumer Reports' predicted reliability ratings"

Except I'm not denying that Toyota and Honda (remember, there are more Japanese automakers than the two of them) make good cars. And you keep quoting the same line that says Ford is on par with them, but for some reason keep denying it. I like how you cherry-pick your facts from articles, but ignore parts that hurt your argument.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Strk
You do realize you just posted an article based on the report that we already discussed? Hell, you're quoting the same passages, including the one where it says Ford is on par with them, which adds that a few of their truck-based vehicles are exceptions.

Yes, because you seem to lack the ability to read.

"Still, Japanese cars are the most reliable overall, leading 15 of 16 categories in Consumer Reports' predicted reliability ratings"

Except I'm not denying that Toyota and Honda (remember, there are more Japanese automakers than the two of them) make good cars. And you keep quoting the same line that says Ford is on par with them, but for some reason keep denying it. I like how you cherry-pick your facts from articles, but ignore parts that hurt your argument.

You're the one cherry picking facts. "Except for some truck-based vehicles, almost all Ford products are now average or better. Excluding those, Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers."

That is not on par, if you are excluding vehicles they make.

It's like saying the Pinto was a safe car, if you exclude the ones that blew up.

Text

?Japanese models are still the most reliable ? Toyota and Honda in particular,? said Rik Paul, automotive editor for Consumer Reports. ?For years, their vehicles have consistently been the least problematic and the best in terms of reliability for years.?
On average, the biggest increase in reported problems for cars comes when they are between 5 and 6 years old, which is when many owners think about selling their car. This is also the point where Toyota and Honda?s models excel in terms of reliability Paul said. The average 10-year-old Toyota or Honda has the same, or fewer, problems than a 4 or 5-year-old car from any of the U.S. automakers, or Volkswagen, he said
What we see is if a car starts out with problems in the first couple of years it will tend to stay problematic throughout its lifetime,? Paul said. ?This is where Toyota and Honda really shine ? they start out well and maintain their reliability, even through 10 years of use, and so a 9-year-old Lexus can have fewer problems than a 2006 Mercedes

 

[bctbct]

Well if CR says...it must be.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Strk
You do realize you just posted an article based on the report that we already discussed? Hell, you're quoting the same passages, including the one where it says Ford is on par with them, which adds that a few of their truck-based vehicles are exceptions.

Yes, because you seem to lack the ability to read.

"Still, Japanese cars are the most reliable overall, leading 15 of 16 categories in Consumer Reports' predicted reliability ratings"

Except I'm not denying that Toyota and Honda (remember, there are more Japanese automakers than the two of them) make good cars. And you keep quoting the same line that says Ford is on par with them, but for some reason keep denying it. I like how you cherry-pick your facts from articles, but ignore parts that hurt your argument.

You're the one cherry picking facts. "Except for some truck-based vehicles, almost all Ford products are now average or better. Excluding those, Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers."

That is not on par, if you are excluding vehicles they make.

It's like saying the Pinto was a safe car, if you exclude the ones that blew up.

Text

?Japanese models are still the most reliable ? Toyota and Honda in particular,? said Rik Paul, automotive editor for Consumer Reports. ?For years, their vehicles have consistently been the least problematic and the best in terms of reliability for years.?
On average, the biggest increase in reported problems for cars comes when they are between 5 and 6 years old, which is when many owners think about selling their car. This is also the point where Toyota and Honda?s models excel in terms of reliability Paul said. The average 10-year-old Toyota or Honda has the same, or fewer, problems than a 4 or 5-year-old car from any of the U.S. automakers, or Volkswagen, he said
What we see is if a car starts out with problems in the first couple of years it will tend to stay problematic throughout its lifetime,? Paul said. ?This is where Toyota and Honda really shine ? they start out well and maintain their reliability, even through 10 years of use, and so a 9-year-old Lexus can have fewer problems than a 2006 Mercedes

You're pretty thick. I not only acknowledged the part about the trucks, but I quoted it. I also used their words, not mine, that pointed out that, if you exclude them, they're on par.

"Except for some truck-based vehicles, almost all Ford products are now average or better. Excluding those, Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers."

Funny, that's from your article, quoting your favored source.

 

[5150Joker]

Hey strk,

What about the god awful exterior and interior designs of American cars? The cheap ass plastic interior that's common in GM/Ford cars and the FUGLY designs..it's an eye sore looking at American cars. I don't care what JD powers or Consumer reports has to say. My family has owned domestics and Japanese cars and there is no comparison in quality, American cars are garbage.