Hardly. They've sacrificed a lot of quality to get to their current position. They were number one in recalls last year. I wasn't really impressed when I was in the new Camry. But they have one major advantage: perception.
Honda is probably the best, although their focus is a bit different. I don't think you can get more simplistic than Honda. Aside from color, you may have, what, a half dozen options to choose from on a Honda?
Some of you insist that American cars are just as good as Japanese cars. It's simply not true.
Toyota Motor Corp.?s Scion brand topped the list of most reliable cars in Consumer Reports? annual vehicle reliability rankings released Thursday, as Asian automakers continued to crowd the top of the magazine?s rankings.
In this year?s study, Honda Motor Co.?s Acura and Honda lines ranked right behind Scion, followed by the Toyota nameplate and Toyota?s luxury brand, Lexus. Asian names occupied all of the magazine?s top 10 slots, with a domestic automaker not appearing on the list until No. 11 with Ford Motor Co.?s Lincoln brand.
Toyota Motor Corp.?s Scion brand topped the list of most reliable cars in Consumer Reports? annual vehicle reliability rankings released Thursday, as Asian automakers continued to crowd the top of the magazine?s rankings.
In this year?s study, Honda Motor Co.?s Acura and Honda lines ranked right behind Scion, followed by the Toyota nameplate and Toyota?s luxury brand, Lexus. Asian names occupied all of the magazine?s top 10 slots, with a domestic automaker not appearing on the list until No. 11 with Ford Motor Co.?s Lincoln brand.
It's not just a few of us on AT who insist it. I like how you ignored that part of the report.
It's also worth pointing out, that most car surveys usually suffer from a major flaw. Issues usually aren't weighted. So when the welds are coming loose on an Avalon, it gets the same weight as a wiper being a little noisey.
Yeah, and a GM transmission failing is the same as a loose Toyota ashtray.
BTW, my friend's family has two Avalons, after owning Chrysler, Jeep and BMW. Suprise, the Toyotas are the most reliable cars they have ever owned
Consumer Reports reliability ratings are the best that I know of. If you have a better source please post it.
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A vehicle's reliability can seriously affect how satisfied you'll be with a car over the years, and it can significantly influence resale value when you're ready to replace the vehicle. Important as it is, reliability is a difficult?and expensive?quality to evaluate, because the information has to come from vehicle owners. The more, the better.
Consumer Reports provides the most available to consumers (available to subscribers). It's based on CR's annual surveys of our approximately 7 million magazine and Web site subscribers. These surveys ask about any serious problems they've had with their vehicles in the preceding 12 months. They generate hundreds of thousands of responses?the 2008 survey, for instance, provided information on over 1.4 million vehicles?which give us a solid foundation for our reliability Ratings.
We provide reliability information in several forms. For used-car buyers we give Ratings for 17 different trouble areas over ten model years, so you can see a model's individual strengths and weaknesses. We also provide a Used Car Verdict for each model year that sums up its overall reliability. The verdicts are weighted to emphasize areas such as the engine-major, transmission-major, cooling system, and drive system, which can be more serious and expensive to repair.
For new-car buyers we provide a Predicted Reliability Rating that indicates how vehicles currently on sale are likely to hold up. To create these Ratings, Consumer Reports averages a model's Used Car Verdicts for the newest three model years, providing it wasn't significantly redesigned during that time. Predictions are made for some new models if the manufacturer's track record or the model's history has been consistently outstanding. All of these Ratings are included in the Reliability History charts and in the vehicle overviews.
Other sources of reliability information are available online. Even if they lack the reach of CR's data, they provide a supplemental source of information.
The most widely known of these services is J.D. Power and Associates. The Power survey that would be of most interest to new-car shoppers is the Initial Quality Survey (IQS). Designed to help automakers gauge the initial quality of the vehicles they're producing, it is based on about 60,000 responses. But it covers only the first three months of ownership, a period in which relatively little goes wrong. It also asks owners about many subjective impressions of their vehicles, not just serious problems they've had.
J.D. Power surveys are also the source for reliability data on some other sites, such as Edmunds.com, Kelley Blue Book, and CarFax.
Some Web sites provide reliability scores based on feedback from consumers who visit the site and fill out questionnaires. The number of reviews for a particular model, however, can range from only a handful to hundreds.
Again, with your ignoring the rest of the report, you have missed significant facts. Chrysler is the worst rated company. Anything would be more reliable.
I looked at your link. It is BS. The original Consumer Reports article did not say " Ford Motor Co.'s car quality is on par with Toyotas and Hondas, Consumer Reports magazine announced Thursday. "
Also from your link:
"Toyota made headlines last year when three vehicles, including versions of its best-selling Camry sedan, ranked below average. This year, all three of those models regained average ratings. The Prius hybrid was the most reliable family car tested, and the Scion xD compact car was the most reliable vehicle tested by the magazine. "
Here's what Consumer Reports actually said: "Except for some truck-based vehicles, almost all Ford products are now average or better. Excluding those, Ford?s reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers.""Still, Japanese cars are the most reliable overall, leading 15 of 16 categories in Consumer Reports? predicted reliability ratings. The Scion xD has the best predicted reliability score for all new cars with about 80% fewer problems than the average model."
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Ktulu
Diamond Member
- Dec 16, 2000
- 4,354
- 0
- 0
So you counterargument to the reliability of CR is that some random gomer with a blog doesn't like them? THAT'S certainly a credible argument :roll:
Edit: I tend to trust data, which CR has a lot of and you have none of, but since we're discussing anecdotal evidence...I've had VERY good experiences buying things consumer reports recommends. They are far more reliable, for me, than any other review source I've found for anything. You may not LIKE what they report, which is what I think is going on with their car coverage, but that doesn't make it not true.
Consumer reports is bullcrap car wise. Every manufacturer uses JD Power as their own internal benchmarks. This brings American manufacturers upto or better than their jap counterparts.
They're not crap just because they don't rate American manufacturers as high as "Jap" car companies. Honesty is not the same thing as pandering to biased fan boys.
boomerang
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2000
- 18,883
- 641
- 126
I love the smell of mistaken jap car fanboi's in the evening. You know, one time we had a forum bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I booted up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' fanboi body. The smell, you know that misguided smell, the whole forum. Smelled like... victory.
Rainsford, I have very intimate working knowledge of the auto industry. When I say the manufacturers use JD Power as their internal metrics that is fact. Consumer reports never enters into their manufacturing or quality control because it's considered bullcrap and not based on reality. Sure marketing will use CR, but not the manufacturing/engineering side.
I don't pretend to know what the manufacturers use, but the fact that they use JD Power vs CR doesn't mean the latter must be "crap". The big reason I can see that JD Power would be of interest to car companies compared to Consumer Reports is that JD Power is based entirely on the feedback provided by consumers, while Consumer Reports bases a lot of their reviews on tests they conduct themselves. I imagine we could argue for days about which is more accurate, but from a car company point of view, it seems like the consumer feedback data would be more valuable. The accuracy of the data is probably less of a concern than what people think about the product. I might be wrong on this, but it seems like just an example of an obvious reason car makers would prefer JD Power to Consumer Reports for a reason NOT based on which better reflects reality.
I really don't think anybody is going to take what you say seriously as long as you call them "Jap cars". This isn't 1950, calling people "Japs" makes you look kind of slow.
The American manufacturers are not quite there yet.
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Lexus once again stands alone atop a closely watched ranking of vehicle dependability after Buick slipped from the No. 1 spot it shared with the Japanese luxury brand last year, J.D. Power and Associates said Thursday.
It's the 14th straight year Toyota Motor Corp.'s high-end brand has held the top position in the annual study, which measures problems experienced by the original owners of vehicles after three years. Lexus had 120 problems per 100 vehicles, down from 145 last year.
"That's a pretty good track record," said Dave Sargent, J.D. Power's vice president of automotive research. "They benefited to some degree ... where a couple of their very important models in their second year on the market -- the ES and the RX, which together account for over two-thirds of lexus sales -- both improved significantly."
Buick, owned by GM, fell to sixth place in this year's study with 163 problems, although its now-discontinued Buick Century was the top-ranked vehicle in the midsize car segment.
Broken out by segment, Lexus took top honors in six categories for its IS 300, ES 300 and LS 300 sedans, the SC 430 coupe, and the GX 470 and LX 470 utility vehicles. Toyota led four categories and tied Honda for a fifth. Toyota's Prius hybrid was the top-ranked vehicle in the compact car segment.
Buick spokeswoman Debbie Frakes said J.D. Power's study is only one of several that the company focuses on.
"Obviously we're disappointed not to have been at the top, but as a brand we consistently rank high in many, many quality studies," she said.
The No. 1 problem cited in the study, based on responses from more than 52,000 original owners of 2005 model-year vehicles, was wind noise, followed by noisy brakes, pulling to the left or right, dashboard issues and window fogging. The study weights all problems equally?
Freaking wind noise? Noisy brakes? Window fogging? These are major problems with a car? This whole survey is ridiculous.
GroundedSailor
Platinum Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 2,502
- 0
- 76
I'm going to have to agree with Spidey here. Relatives who are insiders at senior levels in the auto industry tell me the same about JD Powers.
The problem with CR is that reviews are subjective and will be influenced by the personal opinions of the reviewer. CR has long had the reputation of being biased towards foreign car makers. Though of late they have been giving domestics better marks.
As to their quality surveys, CR does not have the broad based reach that JD Powers has, as they only survey their readers.
boomerang
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2000
- 18,883
- 641
- 126
I just got a little carried away watching this thread progress. However, the word you have a distaste for was used already in the thread, I just picked up on it in a poor attempt at a little humor. I guess if I'd put it in quotes as you did, you'd have found it more palatable.
I feel people should buy whatever they feel is the best vehicle for them. Regardless of who manufactures it. But defending that same vehicle maker as the best or the greatest, even when presented with evidence to the contrary, then still not backing down and proceeding to present opinion as fact, is truly just sad.
In the end, what does it matter? Bragging rights for fanboi's?
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 143
- 106
Jap is a racial slur, dipsht. People in Off Topic have gotten a vacation for using it, just as you and Spidey07 should have. As a Japanese American, I'm telling you this.
FYI JD Power and Associates ranks Toyota/Lexus tops in overall quality for 2008, only behind Porsche. Only one that ranked equally out of the Big 3 was Mercury. Read.
Lexus is the only 5 star rating for Dependability. Only domestics that hung with 4 star Toyota/Honda were Lincoln, Cadillac, Mercury, and Buick. Read.
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