Towns getting IED-RESISTANT APC's and MRAPs (tanks!)

[rudeguy]

Between Balko's book and http://www.amazon.com/Government-Wol...mm_hrd_title_0 you should realize WHY this is a problem. . . if not put your head back in the sand and continue your life.

were you ever going to answer my question?

 

[Triumph]

Can somebody actually explain to me what the problem is with this?

Not MRAP bad because well MRAP! But an actual thought out response as to how this presents a net harm to society.

Mission creep is one part of the explanation, the next logical question is creep towards what? Well, simply ask yourself why it was decidedin in this country to keep military and police separate. The government isn't allowed to use the military for police actions. But what difference does that make if the police become indistinguishable from the military?

 

[Zargon]

I think there are more anarchists than just me and A420 on this forum. Just a lot of you haven't come to the realization yet that this shit can't get fixed and gots to go.

LOLanarchy






the nice thing about these being places is that in really bad weather, high winds, tornado threats, minor flooding, these can drive around and help the citizenry

the bad thing, is that they can easily abused to make the swat team a seriously dangerous group of delta force wanna-bes

tho the military style warrant searches ETC are going to happen with or without these, those require separate controls.

lucky for me, FOR NOW, my countys judges and SA's are very anti no knock warrants


I always am a bit torn on this stuff, I used to work for a LEO/EMA grant funds administrator, and with a lot of LEOS as a municipal gov employee

I know a lot of great officers personally. I like to see them get gear that keeps them safe, but I also think the current use of force overall by PDs has become extreme in the name of 'officer safety'

they know the risks and claim to have accepted them by wearing a badge, but then some want to be able to kill anyone that might be a threat, to save their own skin

 

[momeNt]

LOLanarchy






the nice thing about these being places is that in really bad weather, high winds, tornado threats, minor flooding, these can drive around and help the citizenry

the bad thing, is that they can easily abused to make the swat team a seriously dangerous group of delta force wanna-bes

tho the military style warrant searches ETC are going to happen with or without these, those require separate controls.

lucky for me, FOR NOW, my countys judges and SA's are very anti no knock warrants


I always am a bit torn on this stuff, I used to work for a LEO/EMA grant funds administrator, and with a lot of LEOS as a municipal gov employee

I know a lot of great officers personally. I like to see them get gear that keeps them safe, but I also think the current use of force overall by PDs has become extreme in the name of 'officer safety'

they know the risks and claim to have accepted them by wearing a badge, but then some want to be able to kill anyone that might be a threat, to save their own skin

You aren't there yet, but close. Maybe when officer safety has touched you personally you'll get a little closer and we'll stop seeing the LOLanarchy out of you.

 

[Lithium381]

were you ever going to answer my question?

your question, is it relevant?

 

[Lithium381]

One thing to ask yourself. . . after a citizen is shot/killed. . . what is the reaction of the police? If the person shot or killed was a police officer, what is the response? Is it the same or does it become a massive manhunt? It's an "us vs them" situation . . .

 

[rudeguy]

your question, is it relevant?

Very.

From your lack of response I can tell the answer is no. Continue living in fear. I'll continue to live in reality.

 

[Lithium381]

Very.

From your lack of response I can tell the answer is no. Continue living in fear. I'll continue to live in reality.

Through all of your babbling i don't even know what your question was. . but you're probably right. What is your reality? That police officers are there to protect and serve and those tanks they're getting are just for "bad guys". . ?

 

[rudeguy]

Through all of your babbling i don't even know what your question was. . but you're probably right. What is your reality? That police officers are there to protect and serve and those tanks they're getting are just for "bad guys". . ?

Simple questions:
Do you carry a gun?
Do you own guns?

 

[Lithium381]

Simple questions:
Do you carry a gun?
Do you own guns?

Yes. I'm not sure how it's relevant though. . .?

 

[rudeguy]

Yes. I'm not sure how it's relevant though. . .?

Yes to both?

 

[Lithium381]

Where are you going with this? If it's not relevant to the thread, take it to PM

 

[rudeguy]

Where are you going with this? If it's not relevant to the thread, take it to PM

PMs are only for cybering

Here's my point: I don't worry about others because I know I can protect myself and my family. I have zero doubts about that. Whether its with knowledge of the law, the right attitude or God forbid, with force. I don't rely on the police to defend me and I don't fear them.

If you are this afraid of them, you are missing some of the key components to feeling secure. I don't know what you are missing but you are missing something.

 

[Hugo Drax]

yeah there have been reports over the years that the military is giving police departments old equipment.

also the rise of the number swat teams that use such equipment is sky high.

I question why so many police departments need vehicles such as this..

For the pending NWO control takeover by the UN.

 

[Nebor]

PMs are only for cybering

Here's my point: I don't worry about others because I know I can protect myself and my family. I have zero doubts about that. Whether its with knowledge of the law, the right attitude or God forbid, with force. I don't rely on the police to defend me and I don't fear them.

If you are this afraid of them, you are missing some of the key components to feeling secure. I don't know what you are missing but you are missing something.

You're a god damn fool if you don't fear an MRAP with a well trained crew. For all intents and purposes it may as well be a tank. With a Mk19 it could level your house in less than a minute. Nevermind that it could literally drive through your house with no damage to essential systems.

 

[rudeguy]

You're a god damn fool if you don't fear an MRAP with a well trained crew. For all intents and purposes it may as well be a tank. With a Mk19 it could level your house in less than a minute. Nevermind that it could literally drive through your house with no damage to essential systems.

So I should also fear a herd of charging rhinos?
Maybe a rogue ice berg that falls from the sky?
No...I got it: aliens with a dooms day ray. That's what I'll fear!

 

[Angry Irishman]

So I should also fear a herd of charging rhinos?
Maybe a rogue ice berg that falls from the sky?
No...I got it: aliens with a dooms day ray. That's what I'll fear!

Should civilian law enforcement get anything it wants? What's the cut off? Anything?

 

[yllus]

This armoring up of police forces makes me nervous as well. It continues to build this us against them go-to-war mentality that we're seeing all too often lately.

I believe the first Freakonomics book mentioned that incidences of the use of deadly violence went down considerably when NYC switched police patrols from consisting of a pair of officers to only one doing a solo beat. The net result was that the officer didn't get as hyped up, tended to talk more and pull a weapon less, and situations were resolved in a far more effective manner. Here we're going in the opposite direction: Giving police blacked-out military outfits to storm one-story houses with and having them roll up in armored vehicles. We need to roll this back.

 

[sandorski]

Certainly disturbing, but I think at least some % of the reason is likely simple Economics and Politics. So many American Jobs are focused on Military applications and without a war there's a lot of product looking for alternative Markets and Politicians keeping Constituents happy. This is likely why the US Military Budgets are so high and difficult to cut.

 

[Darwin333]

Your title is very misleading, and flat out wrong. There is NO such thing as an IED proof anything. Even the article says "IED resistant". I also don't consider Columbia SC to be a "small town", at 131k. Or Boise at 212k. I stopped after two links. They also are not tanks. You have THREE things that are INCORRECT in the title. Stop trying to further your agenda by changing words. You just sound ignorant.

Ok, they aren't tanks and some of the towns aren't necessarily small.


One must still ask why the hell they need these vehicles? I don't know about you but I haven't heard of many police vehicles being attacked by landmines or IEDs here in the states. Haven't heard of a situation in which a vehicle that can mount a full auto .50 Cal would have been useful in either.

For fucks sake, being a police officer isn't even that dangerous (relatively speaking) and the vast majority of what serious injuries that do happen are not at the hands or the fault of a bad guy. The number one cause of injury for a police officer are auto accidents. Want to save more cops lives then sell the retarded ass .mil hardware and use the money to upgrade the safety devices in the cops day to day vehicles (roll cages maybe, 5 point harnesses, additional or better airbag systems?).

 

[Darwin333]

endthelie.com sounds very respectable

I wish to subscribe to their newsletter.



Really...are people this dense? The OP says tanks and all they showed were APCs. Here's the thing: cops get shot at. They use the APC as a barrier between themselves and gun fire. Oh but that's right, all the cop haters on here want the cops to get shot.

Go find something to do with your time that doesn't involve making up things to be upset about. Or go try on tin foil hats. Or listen to Art Bell. Just STFU

Heres a better thing. There were 794,300 total police officers in the United States in 2010. Out of those 794K there were a total of 60 officers shot and killed in the line of duty, that works out to 0.0000785032% of total police officers that were shot and killed in the line of duty. I don't have the time to run the numbers right now but it looks like cops are one of the least likely groups to be killed by a gun shot wound.

So now that we have actual information to make informed and educated opinions, why exactly do they need armored vehicles designed to be used in warzones again?

PS the number of cops shot and killed in 2012 was only 49 but I couldn't easily find reliable numbers on total police in the US. Point being its not like its been rising or anything like that.

 

[Darwin333]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/11/2...wide-getting-armored-vehicles-left-over-from/


From Fox news:





I'm sorry, but what a fucking moron. Unokitty hit it earlier, these things are NOT free. They are extremely expensive to maintain and they are extremely expensive to fuel. The Police departments also don't have trained mechanics to fix these vehicles so who is going to do it?

These "free" vehicles are going to eat up budgets better spent on buying bullets so cops could actually train with their weapons and not be incompetent clowns whenever they discharge their weapon or better yet hire more cops. That will do more to protect the citizenry than these armored behemoths. Last I checked the USA doesn't have an IED problem.

If these assholes want to play soldier then they should have joined the Army. Leave the war toys on the battlefield.

Don't worry! Due to the way national confiscation laws are written combined with most states/localities all they need to do is increase the amount of stuff they steal, I mean confiscate, from the public to cover the costs. See, no worries at all.

 

[Darwin333]

intimidation is a form of control. Police need to be in control of all situations.

Fragmentation grenades are a great method of dispersing a crowd. Dispersing a crowd is a form of control and sometimes a necessary function of LE. Doesn't make it a good idea.

And in all honesty, if intimidation is the goal a full on M1A1 Abrams battle tank would be far more intimidating with its 120mm cannon, 50 cal machine gun and two 7.62 machine guns.

Or hell the vehicles in the OP could at least be equipped with full auto machine guns on the turrets if intimidating is what you want.

 

[zinfamous]

Not sure why this is so difficult for some to understand. Why in God's name do civilian law enforcement need military vehicles? Is that the role of our police? Nope. Are they military? Nope. Is there a history of other nations militarizing their police and bad things ensue? Yep.

Simple.....

 

[Darwin333]

how much time per day do you spend in fear?

A hellofa lot less than the cops that think they need an APC built for use in warzones to do their job here in the states.