Tossing you the keys, how do YOU fix GM?

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Dec 10, 2005
28,720
13,883
136
Originally posted by: SickBeast
1. Declare their internal combustion engines a failure and stop producing them.

2. Release the Volt and mass produce it.

3. Come up with other electric vehicles.

4. Hire talented designers who won't make ugly cars and trucks.

1. ICEs are not going away in the near future. If anything, you should keep improving efficiency on them to get the most that you can, and then when you push the hybrid tech into the car when its cheaper, you'll have the best of both worlds - a very efficient gasoline engine and a good electric motor.
2. Electric cars are nice, but there is currently no infrastructure to support them. What would you do if you have to go on a 100+ mile trip?
3. Good start - you still need to push for charging stations, especially in cities where people will lack driveways and will probably be parking in different places every night.
4. Okay.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
Well, do you remember the 1980's Honda Civic (hatchback) ???

Build a car like that... But make it get 40+ MPG, a really good 1.8L engine and a super nice durable trans... Have options like leather seats, heated seats, heated mirrors, etc...etc... Make the seats really comfortable with back support. Make 3 or 4 different seat styles for different sizes....

Also, put the oil filter on the side wall, so that it would be really easy to spin off and change. Make the oil plug super accessible for people that want to do their own oil changes that don't want to crawl under the car.

If you gonna make a car -BE FRIGEN PROUD- of the damn thing and offer a reasonable warranty like 100,000 bumper to bumper.....

Get rid of the big 3 and call it the Big One. To make the cars for the people not against them. The only way to 'FIX' this is to make a car 80-90% of Americans are willing to buy.

 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Close down GM North America and keep the profitible GM global divisions open.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Obama and his team are working on a 'prepackaged' bankruptcy plan.

Seems like a good route to go. Get everything set and then declare bankruptcy with a plan in place to fix their long term problems. The government provides the $25 billion or so needed to make the deal happen.

I would say everyone is happy, but someone will complain.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,759
10,065
136
Originally posted by: synapsetx
Originally posted by: daveymark
get rid of the union

/thread

Wish it was that simple. How do you do it then? Force a shutdown?

A bankruptcy judge can do it with the flick of his wand. I mean gavel.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
What happens if we do nothing??

These companies are too big to just disappear. The idea that they will go completely out of business is crazy. Without the government help they will be forced into bankruptcy at which point they will be forced to make the hard decision that they are trying to avoid now.

GM has $181 billion a year in revenue, if you can't figure out a way to make money with that much revenue something is wrong.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What happens if we do nothing??

These companies are too big to just disappear. The idea that they will go completely out of business is crazy. Without the government help they will be forced into bankruptcy at which point they will be forced to make the hard decision that they are trying to avoid now.

GM has $181 billion a year in revenue, if you can't figure out a way to make money with that much revenue something is wrong.

GM is getting ready to unload alot of it's union obligations in 2010 ,thanks to last years contract negotiations, which would finally make them profitable again. Unfortunately if nothing happens now, they'll never reach that date. They already have a goal and plan to be profitable most people here just don't seem to know that or choose to ignore that small fact.

 

StepUp

Senior member
May 12, 2004
651
0
76
1. 10% Paycut GLOBALLY of every single GM employee top to bottom for the next 3 years. (UAW, Salary, Execs, everyone) This should save ~5 billion a year.
2. Eliminate VEBA. There will be no money to do this. GM is struggling to stay afloat as it is. It cannot afford to put 37 billion dollars into a health savings account.
3. Offer up another round of buyouts for hourly uaw workers. Replace them at the new negotiated starting pay. (should free up 500 million or so).
4. Symbolic, but sell all but 1 or 2 corporate jets. (They have 8).
5. Raise the amount UAW workers pay for their insurance from 7% to match what salaried employees pay, 27%. UAW has not paid a dollar more for health care innearly a decade.
6. Eliminate paying health care benefits for ALL employees at age 65. GM employees are not above going on Medicaid like the rest of country.
7. Eliminate the jobs banks. Allow those currently in the jobs banks to draw for 6 more months, but set an arbitrary date for it to end. (Will save ~1 billion dollars a year).

This alone will save GM more than $60 billion dollars over the next 3 years and give them time to get their act together, without putting more burden on taxpayers.
 

MikeyLSU

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2005
2,747
0
71
Originally posted by: Ktulu

GM is getting ready to unload alot of it's union obligations in 2010 ,thanks to last years contract negotiations, which would finally make them profitable again. Unfortunately if nothing happens now, they'll never reach that date. They already have a goal and plan to be profitable most people here just don't seem to know that or choose to ignore that small fact.

it just depends on if you believe them or not. Like it has been said over and over, the UAW and management have been horrible.

I don't want a bailout to go to lazy job banks where people are paid to do nothing. Plus, just because they say they have a plan doesn't mean it will work. I think it is time for the unions to go away and the only way that happens is chapter 11.
 

tw1164

Diamond Member
Dec 8, 1999
3,995
0
76
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: her209
Compressed Natural Gas Vehicles

Only good for fleet sales short term as there is not a refueling infrastructure for mass market.

I heard a plan to have the post office fleet convert to CNG, with the Feds paying to have the refueling installed a each post office. After this occurs, move the federal fleet to CNG over x number of years; Allowing the time needed to build out the infrastructure.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Originally posted by: StepUp
1. 10% Paycut GLOBALLY of every single GM employee top to bottom for the next 3 years. (UAW, Salary, Execs, everyone) This should save ~5 billion a year.
Sounds reasonable. 15% would have been my figure.
2. Eliminate VEBA. There will be no money to do this. GM is struggling to stay afloat as it is. It cannot afford to put 37 billion dollars into a health savings account.
Where does the health care coverage come from?
3. Offer up another round of buyouts for hourly uaw workers. Replace them at the new negotiated starting pay. (should free up 500 million or so).
I think you'll see this soon. BTW, the money for the last round of buyouts came from - get ready - the UAW.
4. Symbolic, but sell all but 1 or 2 corporate jets. (They have 8).
They turned 2 in today. Symbolic, yes, practical, maybe not so much.
5. Raise the amount UAW workers pay for their insurance from 7% to match what salaried employees pay, 27%. UAW has not paid a dollar more for health care innearly a decade.
Entirely possible, but you're incorrect on the second sentence.
6. Eliminate paying health care benefits for ALL employees at age 65.
GM employees are not above going on Medicaid like the rest of country.
Been that way for hourly, salary just got that bomb dropped on them. Mission accomplished.
7. Eliminate the jobs banks. Allow those currently in the jobs banks to draw for 6 more months, but set an arbitrary date for it to end. (Will save ~1 billion dollars a year).
It's set to phase out at the end of this contract, but it needs to be pulled ahead.

This alone will save GM more than $60 billion dollars over the next 3 years and give them time to get their act together, without putting more burden on taxpayers.[/quote]

Others have talked about reductions in models and divisions. This has been needed for decades. It's expensive and messy though. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
Originally posted by: boomerang
Originally posted by: StepUp
1. 10% Paycut GLOBALLY of every single GM employee top to bottom for the next 3 years. (UAW, Salary, Execs, everyone) This should save ~5 billion a year.
Sounds reasonable. 15% would have been my figure.
2. Eliminate VEBA. There will be no money to do this. GM is struggling to stay afloat as it is. It cannot afford to put 37 billion dollars into a health savings account.
Where does the health care coverage come from?
3. Offer up another round of buyouts for hourly uaw workers. Replace them at the new negotiated starting pay. (should free up 500 million or so).
I think you'll see this soon. BTW, the money for the last round of buyouts came from - get ready - the UAW.
4. Symbolic, but sell all but 1 or 2 corporate jets. (They have 8).
They turned 2 in today. Symbolic, yes, practical, maybe not so much.
5. Raise the amount UAW workers pay for their insurance from 7% to match what salaried employees pay, 27%. UAW has not paid a dollar more for health care innearly a decade.
Entirely possible, but you're incorrect on the second sentence.
6. Eliminate paying health care benefits for ALL employees at age 65.
GM employees are not above going on Medicaid like the rest of country.
Been that way for hourly, salary just got that bomb dropped on them. Mission accomplished.
7. Eliminate the jobs banks. Allow those currently in the jobs banks to draw for 6 more months, but set an arbitrary date for it to end. (Will save ~1 billion dollars a year).
It's set to phase out at the end of this contract, but it needs to be pulled ahead.

This alone will save GM more than $60 billion dollars over the next 3 years and give them time to get their act together, without putting more burden on taxpayers.

Others have talked about reductions in models and divisions. This has been needed for decades. It's expensive and messy though. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

A couple of other ideas. Some of these might be in place or scheduled to go into place. I haven't worked for the UAW for 20 years so I don't know.

Overtime should only be 1 1/2 times for any hours worked over 40 hours.
Reduction in classifications <- I know this is local, but an outline could be put in place
Health-care should be mandatory to be an HMO
Flexible operating schedule

As carrot to the UAW I would dangle a more lucrative profit sharing plan. Even during years with big profits the workers can get screwed through accounting shenanigans.


 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
- I fix auto in general by allowing companies to ignore unions and hire whoever wants to work for them at whatever (legal federal) wage they're willing to accept.
- I also force them to start designing smaller and more affordable cars, particularly alternative fuel vehicles - fuels which can be created in the US offsetting the amount of workers displaced by moving into new industries (fuel generation).
- Cap executive salaries at 10% more than they average workfloor employee.
- Divest multiple redundant units into separate companies or shut them down. Why do we need Chevy, GM, etc all making the same frame with a different coat of paint?

I could go on, but why bother. They're going to get bailed out just like the banks. Where's my free house and free car?
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Originally posted by: SunnyD
- I fix auto in general by allowing companies to ignore unions and hire whoever wants to work for them at whatever (legal federal) wage they're willing to accept.
- I also force them to start designing smaller and more affordable cars, particularly alternative fuel vehicles - fuels which can be created in the US offsetting the amount of workers displaced by moving into new industries (fuel generation).
- Cap executive salaries at 10% more than they average workfloor employee.
- Divest multiple redundant units into separate companies or shut them down. Why do we need Chevy, GM, etc all making the same frame with a different coat of paint?

I could go on, but why bother. They're going to get bailed out just like the banks. Where's my free house and free car?
You'll have to wait until January 20th for those. Patience, patience.

 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
44
91
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: DomS
Originally posted by: daveymark
get rid of the union

/thread

yup.

Ironically the people at the japanese run company plants in the US working NON union are making more and have better benefits.

so then why is the union the problem?

Because the non-union workers have 401(k) type retirement plans while union workers have pensions which are paid by the company. Union workers take home less pay, but cost more to the company because of pension plans.

ZV
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
Originally posted by: boomerang
Originally posted by: SunnyD
- I fix auto in general by allowing companies to ignore unions and hire whoever wants to work for them at whatever (legal federal) wage they're willing to accept.
- I also force them to start designing smaller and more affordable cars, particularly alternative fuel vehicles - fuels which can be created in the US offsetting the amount of workers displaced by moving into new industries (fuel generation).
- Cap executive salaries at 10% more than they average workfloor employee.
- Divest multiple redundant units into separate companies or shut them down. Why do we need Chevy, GM, etc all making the same frame with a different coat of paint?

I could go on, but why bother. They're going to get bailed out just like the banks. Where's my free house and free car?
You'll have to wait until January 20th for those. Patience, patience.

LOL... didn't see that one coming! ZIIING!
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
Dump UAW and all management. Re-hire American car enthusiasts and engineers from Germany and Japan.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Kill the unions
Bring in a japanese CEO
Bail them out for 50 billion, maybe ?

is there something about being japanese that make one a genetically superior individual when it comes to running car companies?

I think it's funny how so many people assume that. Yet people seem to forget there are more than two auto manufacturers in Japan. Mitsubishi has struggled with its auto division. Nissan is owned by Renault and was doing terrible before they took over.
 

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
3,875
0
76
Originally posted by: StepUp
1. 10% Paycut GLOBALLY of every single GM employee top to bottom for the next 3 years. (UAW, Salary, Execs, everyone) This should save ~5 billion a year.
2. Eliminate VEBA. There will be no money to do this. GM is struggling to stay afloat as it is. It cannot afford to put 37 billion dollars into a health savings account.
3. Offer up another round of buyouts for hourly uaw workers. Replace them at the new negotiated starting pay. (should free up 500 million or so).
4. Symbolic, but sell all but 1 or 2 corporate jets. (They have 8).
5. Raise the amount UAW workers pay for their insurance from 7% to match what salaried employees pay, 27%. UAW has not paid a dollar more for health care innearly a decade.
6. Eliminate paying health care benefits for ALL employees at age 65. GM employees are not above going on Medicaid like the rest of country.
7. Eliminate the jobs banks. Allow those currently in the jobs banks to draw for 6 more months, but set an arbitrary date for it to end. (Will save ~1 billion dollars a year).

This alone will save GM more than $60 billion dollars over the next 3 years and give them time to get their act together, without putting more burden on taxpayers.

How do you come up with these figures? GM has 1400 workers in the jobs bank. How the hell are you going to save $1 billion from 1400 people? I can see maybe $200 mil at most.

 

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
3,875
0
76
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Dump UAW and all management. Re-hire American car enthusiasts and engineers from Germany and Japan.


The US has the best engineers in the world.
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
Originally posted by: Squisher
Overtime should only be 1 1/2 times for any hours worked over 40 hours.

how much is overtime right now?

It is 1 1/2 for anything past the end or before your 8 hour shift. If you come in 4 hours late, but work 4 hours over you get paid for 10 hours. Same goes for someone who takes a day off, he'll get 1 1/2 time on Saturday if they are working. Sunday and Holidays are double time.

Another issue that might or not still be the case is the disciplinary progression for unexcused absences. The supplier I worked for tightened up this progression twice from the GM model it inherited in '94. It pretty much got rid of people that didn't want to come to work.
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
0
0
Change the corporate mentality at GM. Move toward a corporate structure that actually listens to workers, unions, customers, etc and address their concerns and problems. Create a corporate structure which takes input from everyone, again workers, unions, customers, etc and builds products that are driven by the needs of the consumer. Focus not on profit but on building brand loyalty through the production of reliable and fuel efficient cars that push the technological envelope in order to provide a better product. The problem faced by the GM is that their mentality is the same one used by Henry Ford in his day and age. GM needs to radically change their way of doing business so that they can become adaptable to trends and changes in the market while maintaining brand loyalty and quality.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Nationalize them and retool to replace the perfectly good public transit infrastructure they destroyed in the 50s.

Bail out General Motors? The people who murdered our mass transit system?

First let them remake what they destroyed.

GM responded to the 1970s gas crisis by handing over the American market to energy-efficient Toyota and Honda.

GM met the rise of the hybrids with "light trucks."

GM built a small electric car, leased a pilot fleet to consumers who loved it, and then forcibly confiscated and trashed them all.

GM now wants to market a $40,000 electric Volt that looks like a cross between a Hummer and a Cadillac and will do nothing to meet the Solartopian needs of a green-powered Earth.

For this alone, GM's managers should never be allowed to make another car, let alone take our tax money to stay in business.

But there is also a trillion-dollar skeleton in GM's closet.

This is the company that murdered our mass transit system.

The assertion comes from Bradford Snell, a government researcher whose definitive report damning GM has been a vehicular lightening rod since its 1974 debut. Its attackers and defenders are legion. But some facts are irrefutable:

In a 1922 memo that will live in infamy, GM President Alfred P. Sloan established a unit aimed at dumping electrified mass transit in favor of gas-burning cars, trucks and buses.

Just one American family in 10 then owned an automobile. Instead, we loved our 44,000 miles of passenger rail routes managed by 1,200 companies employing 300,000 Americans who ran 15 billion annual trips generating an income of $1 billion. According to Snell, "virtually every city and town in America of more than 2,500 people had its own electric rail system."

But GM lost $65 million in 1921. So Sloan enlisted Standard Oil (now Exxon), Philips Petroleum, glass and rubber companies and an army of financiers and politicians to kill mass transit.

The campaigns varied, as did the economic and technical health of many of the systems themselves. Some now argue that buses would have transcended many of the rail lines anyway. More likely, they would have hybridized and complemented each other.

But with a varied arsenal of political and financial subterfuges, GM helped gut the core of America's train and trolley systems. It was the murder of our rail systems that made our "love affair" with the car a tragedy of necessity.

In 1949 a complex federal prosecution for related crimes resulted in an anti-trust fine against GM of a whopping $5000. For years thereafter GM continued to bury electric rail systems by "bustituting" gas-fired vehicles.

Then came the interstates. After driving his Allied forces into Berlin on Hitler's Autobahn, Dwight Eisenhower brought home a passion for America's biggest public works project. Some 40,000 miles of vital eco-systems were eventually paved under.

In habitat destruction, oil addiction, global warming, outright traffic deaths (some 40,000/year and more), ancillary ailments and wars for oil, the automobile embodies the worst ecological catastrophe in human history.

Should current General Motors management be made to pay for the ancient sins of Alfred Sloan?

Since the 1880s, American corporations have claimed human rights under the law. Tasking one now with human responsibilities could set a great precedent.

GM has certainly proved itself unable to make cars that can compete while healing a global-warmed planet.

So let's convert the company's infrastructure to churn out trolley cars, monorails, passenger trains, truly green buses.

FDR forced Detroit to manufacture the tanks, planes and guns that won World War 2 (try buying a 1944 Chevrolet!). Now let a reinvented GM make the "weapons" to win the climate war and energy independence.

It demands re-tooling and re-training. But GM's special role in history must now evolve into using its infrastructure to restore the mass transit system - and ecological balance - it has helped destroy.
http://www.truthout.org/111708C
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed
Nationalize them and retool to replace the perfectly good public transit infrastructure they destroyed in the 50s.

Bail out General Motors? The people who murdered our mass transit system?

First let them remake what they destroyed.

GM responded to the 1970s gas crisis by handing over the American market to energy-efficient Toyota and Honda.

GM met the rise of the hybrids with "light trucks."

GM built a small electric car, leased a pilot fleet to consumers who loved it, and then forcibly confiscated and trashed them all.

GM now wants to market a $40,000 electric Volt that looks like a cross between a Hummer and a Cadillac and will do nothing to meet the Solartopian needs of a green-powered Earth.

For this alone, GM's managers should never be allowed to make another car, let alone take our tax money to stay in business.

But there is also a trillion-dollar skeleton in GM's closet.

This is the company that murdered our mass transit system.

The assertion comes from Bradford Snell, a government researcher whose definitive report damning GM has been a vehicular lightening rod since its 1974 debut. Its attackers and defenders are legion. But some facts are irrefutable:

In a 1922 memo that will live in infamy, GM President Alfred P. Sloan established a unit aimed at dumping electrified mass transit in favor of gas-burning cars, trucks and buses.

Just one American family in 10 then owned an automobile. Instead, we loved our 44,000 miles of passenger rail routes managed by 1,200 companies employing 300,000 Americans who ran 15 billion annual trips generating an income of $1 billion. According to Snell, "virtually every city and town in America of more than 2,500 people had its own electric rail system."

But GM lost $65 million in 1921. So Sloan enlisted Standard Oil (now Exxon), Philips Petroleum, glass and rubber companies and an army of financiers and politicians to kill mass transit.

The campaigns varied, as did the economic and technical health of many of the systems themselves. Some now argue that buses would have transcended many of the rail lines anyway. More likely, they would have hybridized and complemented each other.

But with a varied arsenal of political and financial subterfuges, GM helped gut the core of America's train and trolley systems. It was the murder of our rail systems that made our "love affair" with the car a tragedy of necessity.

In 1949 a complex federal prosecution for related crimes resulted in an anti-trust fine against GM of a whopping $5000. For years thereafter GM continued to bury electric rail systems by "bustituting" gas-fired vehicles.

Then came the interstates. After driving his Allied forces into Berlin on Hitler's Autobahn, Dwight Eisenhower brought home a passion for America's biggest public works project. Some 40,000 miles of vital eco-systems were eventually paved under.

In habitat destruction, oil addiction, global warming, outright traffic deaths (some 40,000/year and more), ancillary ailments and wars for oil, the automobile embodies the worst ecological catastrophe in human history.

Should current General Motors management be made to pay for the ancient sins of Alfred Sloan?

Since the 1880s, American corporations have claimed human rights under the law. Tasking one now with human responsibilities could set a great precedent.

GM has certainly proved itself unable to make cars that can compete while healing a global-warmed planet.

So let's convert the company's infrastructure to churn out trolley cars, monorails, passenger trains, truly green buses.

FDR forced Detroit to manufacture the tanks, planes and guns that won World War 2 (try buying a 1944 Chevrolet!). Now let a reinvented GM make the "weapons" to win the climate war and energy independence.

It demands re-tooling and re-training. But GM's special role in history must now evolve into using its infrastructure to restore the mass transit system - and ecological balance - it has helped destroy.
http://www.truthout.org/111708C

Talk about dredging up stuff from the past.

btw-If GM had actually sold the EV1 its price would have been close to $100K. I think the reason they confiscated them was because they didn't want them around as a testament to one of their worst half-baked ideas.