Top 1% pays 50% of the taxes.

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: sactoking

Originally posted by: Zebo
First of all, income tax makes up a small portion of tax receipts.

Breakdown of Federal Revenues:

........................................1960..........1975.........1994............2007
Individual income taxes.........44%...........45%..........43%.........46%

Source: Council of Economic Advisors, Economics Indicators (Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office, 1967, 1977, 2007)


Yup, right about 50% is a pretty small portion.

Nice selective quoting there try reading whole paragraph next time and staying on topic.

 

[sactoking]

Originally posted by: Zebo
First of all, income tax makes up a small portion of tax receipts. All other taxes are regressive. From Sales to SS to property. Poor and middle class pay a disproportionate amount of their income relative to rich on these.

Originally posted by: Zebo
Nice selective quoting there try reading whole paragraph next time and staying on topic.

There's your whole paragraph. 4 sentences. In sentence 1, you make an unfounded and wholly incorrect statement. Sentences 2, 3, and 4 then go on to talk about a different topic.

I called you out on your false statement in sentence 1. Don't like it? Then don't make false statements.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Zebo
This thread is such BS it's not even funny.

First of all, income tax makes up a small portion of tax receipts. All other taxes are regressive. From Sales to SS to property. Poor and middle class pay a disproportionate amount of their income relative to rich on these.

Second is people with a clue do not show regular income but expense everything and defer into gains though dividends and LTCG. My fishing trips to Eagle lake Canada are a business expense. My hunting trips to Hayes Kansas, a business expense. My company boats a business expense and so on, virtually every damn thing I do or buy is one as president of 3 corps. Don't ask me how, I have an accountant who I pay $5500 a year to , another business expense, to figure this out. I make $22,500 a year, that's it!!! (only to partake of optimum SS matrix and obvious net worth issues with IRS)


The really smart start an offshore investment corp and invest in market pay zero.

You guys are talking about the upper middle w2 people from football players to doctors who have no option. Yes hey have it rough, way rough, the tax codes were not written for workers.

And IMO you are an immoral tax evader, and an example of why we need reform.

Not hardly. All expenses are legit cost of doing business. All have a business purpose like checking on wells, meeting clients where business is done etc. Perhaps you're unfamiliar with what evasion is. That's not reporting income. Mainly cash businesses and drug dealers do this. As far as taking deductions and deferng income being immoral - do you not take the deductions the govt gives you? Home Interest? Education expense? Moving expense? and so on? Do you have a 401k? Or you just straight line, aviod exemptions, deductions and exclusions congress gives?

I inferred from your previous post that you take personal expenses and report tham as business expenses, that you exaggerate them, you do a little business to create 'cover' for the expense being deductible, and other types of activities that don't meet the law but you can get away with; that's the tax evasion I was referring to.

If that's not the case and they are really legitimate - not phony/exaggerated - then my comment is withdrawn. I have no problem with you taking legitimate deductions of course.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: sactoking

Originally posted by: Zebo
First of all, income tax makes up a small portion of tax receipts. All other taxes are regressive. From Sales to SS to property. Poor and middle class pay a disproportionate amount of their income relative to rich on these.

Originally posted by: Zebo
Nice selective quoting there try reading whole paragraph next time and staying on topic.

There's your whole paragraph. 4 sentences. In sentence 1, you make an unfounded and wholly incorrect statement. Sentences 2, 3, and 4 then go on to talk about a different topic.

I called you out on your false statement in sentence 1. Don't like it? Then don't make false statements.

There is nothing false about it. You're just trying diversions to get out of the fact these claims the OP makes are total junk.

He's wrong on "Top 1% pays 50% of the taxes." because, Federal income taxes, which the study uses, are a small part of the overall tax burden Americans pay. You bringing up what percentage of Federal taxes recipes comes from ordinary income and capital gains, income tax, is out of context, like the OP's, with overall tax burden.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty
I have heard that before... I call total BS

Show me a real verifiable link that shows the top earning 1% pays 50% of the countries income tax.

Also, show a verifiable link to the lower x percentage that pays zero tax. Also total BS. When I was young and just starting out I made only 12,000 one year and $14,000 the next and I still paid a few thousand in taxes each year.


FU - dont call me a liar. You have no idea what you are talking about. This is back in 1988 and 89, and that is what I paid, straight up, no deductions, no dependants, no property, nothing at all. I'm and old terd.

Funny. 15% on a $12000 income in 1988 is $1800, and that's before EIC.

Somebody's lying.

Its been a long time. I am not exact ont he figures, my point is that even broke ass people have to pay taxes. Your post proves that the bottom 50% of people in this country pays only 3% of the taxes how exactly? Links?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Zebo
This thread is such BS it's not even funny.

First of all, income tax makes up a small portion of tax receipts. All other taxes are regressive. From Sales to SS to property. Poor and middle class pay a disproportionate amount of their income relative to rich on these.

Second is people with a clue do not show regular income but expense everything and defer into gains though dividends and LTCG. My fishing trips to Eagle lake Canada are a business expense. My hunting trips to Hayes Kansas, a business expense. My company boats a business expense and so on, virtually every damn thing I do or buy is one as president of 3 corps. Don't ask me how, I have an accountant who I pay $5500 a year to , another business expense, to figure this out. I make $22,500 a year, that's it!!! (only to partake of optimum SS matrix and obvious net worth issues with IRS)


The really smart start an offshore investment corp and invest in market pay zero.

You guys are talking about the upper middle w2 people from football players to doctors who have no option. Yes hey have it rough, way rough, the tax codes were not written for workers.

And IMO you are an immoral tax evader, and an example of why we need reform.

Not hardly. All expenses are legit cost of doing business. All have a business purpose like checking on wells, meeting clients where business is done etc. Perhaps you're unfamiliar with what evasion is. That's not reporting income. Mainly cash businesses and drug dealers do this. As far as taking deductions and deferng income being immoral - do you not take the deductions the govt gives you? Home Interest? Education expense? Moving expense? and so on? Do you have a 401k? Or you just straight line, aviod exemptions, deductions and exclusions congress gives?

I inferred from your previous post that you take personal expenses and report tham as business expenses, that you exaggerate them, you do a little business to create 'cover' for the expense being deductible, and other types of activities that don't meet the law but you can get away with; that's the tax evasion I was referring to.

If that's not the case and they are really legitimate - not phony/exaggerated - then my comment is withdrawn. I have no problem with you taking legitimate deductions of course.

I understand - all are legit - does not change my thesis one can derive personal enjoyment from such business activity nor that these expenses are allowed for an officer but not an W2 employee going to a job (unless I'm paying for it - such as if I buy my admin assist lunch, a business expense - but if she buys for us, no deduction on her taxes) which I find unfair. And does not change the biggest loophole/advantage - the tax-free compounding of income and eventual, relatively, low tax rate, SS and Medicare free tax rate, of capital gains when asset is sold/realized. This is the largest benefit, and why most people are clueless when posting garbage like OP.

edit:
A third scenario is even deductible - such as if I give her company CC to meet someone for business lunch, I don't even have to be there, and it's acceptable - unlike if she had to pay. The difference is she has to make $30 to pay for her $20 lunch because it's post tax dollars for her. I have to make less because it's pretax dollars. I use meals as a simple example but it applies to everything business related even those business hunting trips. I don't like it but that does not mean I will not take advantage of tax law given.

 

[ElFenix]

fwiw, people have only talked about legal burden of taxes in this thread. more important, though not as easy to think about, is the economic burden. that is, who actually bears the brunt of the taxes. that's a far more interesting question, but nearly impossible to get into a good sound bite.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
fwiw, people have only talked about legal burden of taxes in this thread. more important, though not as easy to think about, is the economic burden. that is, who actually bears the brunt of the taxes. that's a far more interesting question, but nearly impossible to get into a good sound bite.

What do you mean by economic burden? If I understand you right, I'd say

It hurts a guy more paying 50% who makes 100K than a guy paying 50% who makes 100M.

One has 50,000 left over not much for this economy in many parts of the country. Can hardly save a dime with a family leaving him largely stuck.

The other guy has 50,000,000 left over, does not change anything, still has more money than god and only needs about 50,000 to live. Leaving him acquiring more and more market position each year.

I think any taxes on those under 50K are an economic burden for Americans let alone high ones we have and the many types we have.

I mean can you live and raise a family on 50K when they take 25%-35% so $37,500 at best?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: nealh
You know what I want to know is what your income was last yr from those who are posting

I work damn hard to earn money..I spent 13yrs getting educated. I was 32 yrs old before I had job making any money.

I pay more in taxes than most of you make....I dont have fancy lawyers and I dont cheat on my taxes...but I fed up listening to you guys whine I dont pay enough

I would bet my life all of you here who are bitching want to be wealthy someday ...there was a great poll take about taxes. They asked if people thought the rich pay Johnenough in taxes..51% said NO
They asked the same people if they wanted to be wealthy and guess what they said yes...then they asked do you think you should pay more taxes if your were wealthy....guess the answer...NO

I have no problem paying a fair rate on my taxes...I cant stand the way the idiots in congress waste money with no care in the world

I probaby pay more sales tax than most do as well....I spend more...so I bet the wealthy still pay more sales taxes too....

Maybe the super rich(what they hell you define as rich) have ways to shelter money..but I refuse to go to jail to cheat on my taxes or stretch the line

I cant see how the wealthy paying more taxes will help any of you...do think Congress who currently gets more tax dollars than ever before needs more money to waste. Do you think they will get more fiscally responsible
Yes Congress get more tax dollars than ever before....less loop holes, lower rate and higher % of people paying their taxes and not cheating

I only hope I am there to hear you people when you make more money and need to pay higher taxes and see the idiots throw the money after sh*t

BTW I am not rich....I dont spend beyond my means, pay all my bills...if I cant afford it now, I dont get it. I have a home loan and monthly CC debt paid off every month(got love reward programs)

so in 13 years of education, you weren't required to take english classes?

He's probably a doctor. They can't write.

But, is yours any better, Mr. Elitist?

This is merely a discussion forum, not a peer reviewed journal. And if you are going to be the internet grammarian, you have a long and dull career ahead of you.

The reason this guy probably can't afford a tax lawyer is because he's still paying off his student loans. Once we get nationalized medicine, medical school will be paid for or hugely subsidized by the government, and won't he be pissed!?!

-Robert

You don't need a tax attorney to understand tax-free compounding of income is where most rich people get their money from.

Let me break this down as SIMPLE as possible for everyone to understand. I leaving out other huge benefits business owner will get like partial use of tax free assets.Where do the tax free fully depreciated assets go? and such...

John is a entrepreneur opening a burger shop

Chris is a staff accountant for Ford.

John opens burger shop with $50,000 and pays himself $10,000 a year reinvesting most all profits back into business, growing more shops each year and eventually sells the 10 shops for 10 million.

John pays no Federal income tax on the $200,000 he got in salary he got over years except 7.5% SS/MED or about $15,000

John pays 15% of 10 million or 1.5 million from sale of his business.

Total taxes paid by John is $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.
________________________________
Chris is a damn good accountant so he makes $300,000 a year for 20 years.
But he will pay more in taxes than John even though he makes 4 million less.
According to Turbo tax Chirs pays $82,000 a year in income taxes on his $200,000 plus $9800 SS/MED
Chris pays $92,600 a year in taxes or $1,852,000 over 20 years

Total taxes paid by Chris $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit


See the problem yet y'all? It get worse when you lower incomes and take into account all taxes, local, sales, property etc etc. Capital gains tax treatment is a fantastic advantage for the wealthy. Instead of being taxed every month like everyone else the gains remain untaxed until the asset is sold and at a reduced rate with no additional levies like SS and MED.

Cliffs:
Chris the W2 employee pays $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit.
John the entrepreneur pays $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Zebo
This thread is such BS it's not even funny.

First of all, income tax makes up a small portion of tax receipts. All other taxes are regressive. From Sales to SS to property. Poor and middle class pay a disproportionate amount of their income relative to rich on these.

Second is people with a clue do not show regular income but expense everything and defer into gains though dividends and LTCG. My fishing trips to Eagle lake Canada are a business expense. My hunting trips to Hayes Kansas, a business expense. My company boats a business expense and so on, virtually every damn thing I do or buy is one as president of 3 corps. Don't ask me how, I have an accountant who I pay $5500 a year to , another business expense, to figure this out. I make $22,500 a year, that's it!!! (only to partake of optimum SS matrix and obvious net worth issues with IRS)


The really smart start an offshore investment corp and invest in market pay zero.

You guys are talking about the upper middle w2 people from football players to doctors who have no option. Yes hey have it rough, way rough, the tax codes were not written for workers.

And IMO you are an immoral tax evader, and an example of why we need reform.

As long as his deductions are within the ambit of the law, they are legal. Calling him immoral when he's, at worst, a minor tax AVOIDER, is too harsh. Change the laws! To do that, you have to pay close attention to what those thieves in Congress do.

-Robert

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Zebo
This thread is such BS it's not even funny.

First of all, income tax makes up a small portion of tax receipts. All other taxes are regressive. From Sales to SS to property. Poor and middle class pay a disproportionate amount of their income relative to rich on these.

Second is people with a clue do not show regular income but expense everything and defer into gains though dividends and LTCG. My fishing trips to Eagle lake Canada are a business expense. My hunting trips to Hayes Kansas, a business expense. My company boats a business expense and so on, virtually every damn thing I do or buy is one as president of 3 corps. Don't ask me how, I have an accountant who I pay $5500 a year to , another business expense, to figure this out. I make $22,500 a year, that's it!!! (only to partake of optimum SS matrix and obvious net worth issues with IRS)


The really smart start an offshore investment corp and invest in market pay zero.

You guys are talking about the upper middle w2 people from football players to doctors who have no option. Yes hey have it rough, way rough, the tax codes were not written for workers.

And IMO you are an immoral tax evader, and an example of why we need reform.

As long as his deductions are within the ambit of the law, they are legal. Calling him immoral when he's, at worst, a minor tax AVOIDER, is too harsh. Change the laws! To do that, you have to pay close attention to what those thieves in Congress do.

-Robert

I don't mind - people don't understand some of these deductions (or my bad writing most likly😛)but me and Craig already cleared it up, he redacted. Thanks tough🙂

I am doing an interesting thing this year that I've never done before - taking a "late sub chapter S election" on our home building C corp we lost so much on this last year - to bring home some more $$ from other things. My accountant is smart and even called IRS person who wrote rule and they said it was cool. Never know though.:wine:

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: ZeboYou don't need a tax attorney to understand tax-free compounding of income is where most rich people get their money from.

Let me break this down as SIMPLE as possible for everyone to understand. I leaving out other huge benefits business owner will get like partial use of tax free assets.Where do the tax free fully depreciated assets go? and such...

John is a entrepreneur opening a burger shop

Chris is a staff accountant for Ford.

John opens burger shop with $50,000 and pays himself $10,000 a year reinvesting most all profits back into business, growing more shops each year and eventually sells the 10 shops for 10 million.

John pays no Federal income tax on the $200,000 he got in salary he got over years except 7.5% SS/MED or about $15,000

John pays 15% of 10 million or 1.5 million from sale of his business.

Total taxes paid by John is $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.
________________________________
Chris is a damn good accountant so he makes $300,000 a year for 20 years.
But he will pay more in taxes than John even though he makes 4 million less.
According to Turbo tax Chirs pays $82,000 a year in income taxes on his $200,000 plus $9800 SS/MED
Chris pays $92,600 a year in taxes or $1,852,000 over 20 years

Total taxes paid by Chris $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit


See the problem yet y'all? It get worse when you lower incomes and take into account all taxes, local, sales, property etc etc. Capital gains tax treatment is a fantastic advantage for the wealthy. Instead of being taxed every month like everyone else the gains remain untaxed until the asset is sold and at a reduced rate with no additional levies like SS and MED.

Cliffs:
Chris the W2 employee pays $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit.
John the entrepreneur pays $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.

B]John pays 15% of 10 million or 1.5 million from sale of his business[/b].

Is this really correct..the $10million is not considered income and taxed at the higher rates

damn....

FYI, I am a medical doctor and on this forum there is no reason for me to worry about my grammar or english(jeez I am a computer forum)

This idea of money begets money...I came from a middle class family..my father got a doctorate of EE, came from nothing and I mean nothing
He instilled ethics of hard-work and buy what you can afford period

He was not rich by any means, he worked hard and was well off....he helped me in school some. But I paid my way via savings and academic scholarships. I used student loans and paid them off early while during internship and residency

Sooo...you can come from very little like may father (first one in his family with a college education and doctorate) and with his help, guidance and morals, I have done the same

I save as much as I can...savings is always my first priority...set a goal, I pay myself, bills and then buy stuff...

I asked for no handouts and expected none, today too many of the younger people expect to have what everyone else has and to be things based on entitlement

What ticks me off the most now..most of the crap that has occurred has as much fault from main street as wall street....too many bought what they could never afford. The housing market was a disaster. Everyone expected home values to go up forever and they will give refinancing and using their home as an ATM

Now, I get to back for their selfishness.....

 

[Zebo]

Yes sir sale of assets are taxed at Long-term capital gains tax rate. 15% under most circumstances (lower for low gains with low income, zero for some home sales) And that's not the whole or even majority of advantage I did'nt not even get into- you can reduce tax further by doing a structured sale, reduce basis certain ways, partake of company assets, meals entertainment, etc all tax free- but IMO the biggest advantage is the tax-free compounding of company income reinvested to be sold later at these low rates.

What kind of Doctor are you my bud is a sleeplymaker, I forget the name anteshsomehting, and he has his own Business. I won't go into detail but his car a yellow nine something is provided by business. Reducing basis further check into it maybe.

I agree we have a serious deadbeat problem. I also have a liquor store and it's impossible to keep help or even hire them with clean record as the state requires. I have a brother than was given everything and is a prisoner today, wasted his life on drugs and petty crime (every family seems to have one these days). We also have a serious lack of understanding of tax code and it's why the really wealthy are walking away with it all, legally. 😛

Biggest problem is handouts require no task mastering or work. Maybe Pell grant you need a 2.0 or something but in general, I think work and prgress needs to be demanded but at the same time general welfare increased. I'm a librarepub😛

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Zebo
You don't need a tax attorney to understand tax-free compounding of income is where most rich people get their money from.

Let me break this down as SIMPLE as possible for everyone to understand. I leaving out other huge benefits business owner will get like partial use of tax free assets.Where do the tax free fully depreciated assets go? and such...

John is a entrepreneur opening a burger shop

Chris is a staff accountant for Ford.

John opens burger shop with $50,000 and pays himself $10,000 a year reinvesting most all profits back into business, growing more shops each year and eventually sells the 10 shops for 10 million.

John pays no Federal income tax on the $200,000 he got in salary he got over years except 7.5% SS/MED or about $15,000

John pays 15% of 10 million or 1.5 million from sale of his business.

Total taxes paid by John is $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.
________________________________
Chris is a damn good accountant so he makes $300,000 a year for 20 years.
But he will pay more in taxes than John even though he makes 4 million less.
According to Turbo tax Chirs pays $82,000 a year in income taxes on his $200,000 plus $9800 SS/MED
Chris pays $92,600 a year in taxes or $1,852,000 over 20 years

Total taxes paid by Chris $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit


See the problem yet y'all? It get worse when you lower incomes and take into account all taxes, local, sales, property etc etc. Capital gains tax treatment is a fantastic advantage for the wealthy. Instead of being taxed every month like everyone else the gains remain untaxed until the asset is sold and at a reduced rate with no additional levies like SS and MED.

Cliffs:
Chris the W2 employee pays $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit.
John the entrepreneur pays $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.

No, I don't see the problem. What I see is the pov that you completely overlooked. How much tax revenue and employment did John generate opening businesses vs. Chris, who employed nobody?

Do you not see the difference and not comprehend why some people get tax breaks while others don't? John provided a service that benefitted the common good by employing people. Chris had a job that benefitted himself. John took a risk. Chris worked in corporate America. John should get tax breaks and if Chris was actually a good accountant, he would have taken advantage of them himself by opening his own businesses. The opportunity was available and he didn't take it.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Goldman Sachs is paying 1% taxes this year.

Is that ok?

Warren Buffet paid less in taxes than his assitant who makes $120,000 a year.

Is that ok?

I'm pretty sure Warren Buffet pays more taxes than his assistant. He probably pays less of a %, but more in absolute numbers.

http://tusb.stanford.edu/2007/...t_has_a_lower_tax.html

You are correct.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Zebo
You don't need a tax attorney to understand tax-free compounding of income is where most rich people get their money from.

Let me break this down as SIMPLE as possible for everyone to understand. I leaving out other huge benefits business owner will get like partial use of tax free assets.Where do the tax free fully depreciated assets go? and such...

John is a entrepreneur opening a burger shop

Chris is a staff accountant for Ford.

John opens burger shop with $50,000 and pays himself $10,000 a year reinvesting most all profits back into business, growing more shops each year and eventually sells the 10 shops for 10 million.

John pays no Federal income tax on the $200,000 he got in salary he got over years except 7.5% SS/MED or about $15,000

John pays 15% of 10 million or 1.5 million from sale of his business.

Total taxes paid by John is $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.
________________________________
Chris is a damn good accountant so he makes $300,000 a year for 20 years.
But he will pay more in taxes than John even though he makes 4 million less.
According to Turbo tax Chirs pays $82,000 a year in income taxes on his $200,000 plus $9800 SS/MED
Chris pays $92,600 a year in taxes or $1,852,000 over 20 years

Total taxes paid by Chris $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit


See the problem yet y'all? It get worse when you lower incomes and take into account all taxes, local, sales, property etc etc. Capital gains tax treatment is a fantastic advantage for the wealthy. Instead of being taxed every month like everyone else the gains remain untaxed until the asset is sold and at a reduced rate with no additional levies like SS and MED.

Cliffs:
Chris the W2 employee pays $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit.
John the entrepreneur pays $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.

No, I don't see the problem. What I see is the pov that you completely overlooked. How much tax revenue and employment did John generate opening businesses vs. Chris, who employed nobody?

Do you not see the difference and not comprehend why some people get tax breaks while others don't? John provided a service that benefitted the common good by employing people. Chris had a job that benefitted himself. John took a risk. Chris worked in corporate America. John should get tax breaks and if Chris was actually a good accountant, he would have taken advantage of them himself by opening his own businesses. The opportunity was available and he didn't take it.

You're a fool to think that business owners provide some great service to society. And you're a fool to think that business ownership is a viable option for everyone.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Zebo
You don't need a tax attorney to understand tax-free compounding of income is where most rich people get their money from.

Let me break this down as SIMPLE as possible for everyone to understand. I leaving out other huge benefits business owner will get like partial use of tax free assets.Where do the tax free fully depreciated assets go? and such...

John is a entrepreneur opening a burger shop

Chris is a staff accountant for Ford.

John opens burger shop with $50,000 and pays himself $10,000 a year reinvesting most all profits back into business, growing more shops each year and eventually sells the 10 shops for 10 million.

John pays no Federal income tax on the $200,000 he got in salary he got over years except 7.5% SS/MED or about $15,000

John pays 15% of 10 million or 1.5 million from sale of his business.

Total taxes paid by John is $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.
________________________________
Chris is a damn good accountant so he makes $300,000 a year for 20 years.
But he will pay more in taxes than John even though he makes 4 million less.
According to Turbo tax Chirs pays $82,000 a year in income taxes on his $200,000 plus $9800 SS/MED
Chris pays $92,600 a year in taxes or $1,852,000 over 20 years

Total taxes paid by Chris $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit


See the problem yet y'all? It get worse when you lower incomes and take into account all taxes, local, sales, property etc etc. Capital gains tax treatment is a fantastic advantage for the wealthy. Instead of being taxed every month like everyone else the gains remain untaxed until the asset is sold and at a reduced rate with no additional levies like SS and MED.

Cliffs:
Chris the W2 employee pays $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit.
John the entrepreneur pays $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.

No, I don't see the problem. What I see is the pov that you completely overlooked. How much tax revenue and employment did John generate opening businesses vs. Chris, who employed nobody?

Do you not see the difference and not comprehend why some people get tax breaks while others don't? John provided a service that benefitted the common good by employing people. Chris had a job that benefitted himself. John took a risk. Chris worked in corporate America. John should get tax breaks and if Chris was actually a good accountant, he would have taken advantage of them himself by opening his own businesses. The opportunity was available and he didn't take it.

You're a fool to think that business owners provide some great service to society. And you're a fool to think that business ownership is a viable option for everyone.

I didn't say that business ownership was a viable option for everyone. However, it's a viable option for those that attempt to try. I did and made a decent return in the process.

If a dipshit like me can make money doing that surely a smart guy like you and others can? 😉

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Zebo
You don't need a tax attorney to understand tax-free compounding of income is where most rich people get their money from.

Let me break this down as SIMPLE as possible for everyone to understand. I leaving out other huge benefits business owner will get like partial use of tax free assets.Where do the tax free fully depreciated assets go? and such...

John is a entrepreneur opening a burger shop

Chris is a staff accountant for Ford.

John opens burger shop with $50,000 and pays himself $10,000 a year reinvesting most all profits back into business, growing more shops each year and eventually sells the 10 shops for 10 million.

John pays no Federal income tax on the $200,000 he got in salary he got over years except 7.5% SS/MED or about $15,000

John pays 15% of 10 million or 1.5 million from sale of his business.

Total taxes paid by John is $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.
________________________________
Chris is a damn good accountant so he makes $300,000 a year for 20 years.
But he will pay more in taxes than John even though he makes 4 million less.
According to Turbo tax Chirs pays $82,000 a year in income taxes on his $200,000 plus $9800 SS/MED
Chris pays $92,600 a year in taxes or $1,852,000 over 20 years

Total taxes paid by Chris $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit


See the problem yet y'all? It get worse when you lower incomes and take into account all taxes, local, sales, property etc etc. Capital gains tax treatment is a fantastic advantage for the wealthy. Instead of being taxed every month like everyone else the gains remain untaxed until the asset is sold and at a reduced rate with no additional levies like SS and MED.

Cliffs:
Chris the W2 employee pays $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit.
John the entrepreneur pays $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.

No, I don't see the problem. What I see is the pov that you completely overlooked. How much tax revenue and employment did John generate opening businesses vs. Chris, who employed nobody?

Do you not see the difference and not comprehend why some people get tax breaks while others don't? John provided a service that benefitted the common good by employing people. Chris had a job that benefitted himself. John took a risk. Chris worked in corporate America. John should get tax breaks and if Chris was actually a good accountant, he would have taken advantage of them himself by opening his own businesses. The opportunity was available and he didn't take it.

Sure - I understand that viewpoint but I disagree because I could have just as easily cited Jason who buys and sells gas wells or Tammy who has her own hedge fund both with no employees which calls into question 'common good' of employing but they get the same tax breaks.

Anyway why should the government really be making value judgments? Then the Doctors should not even be taxed while taxing cigarette makers 100% since Doctors are far more valuable than Cigarette makers in almost everyones eyes.

I also disagree because it also promotes a continuation of generational social hierarchy no matter how you dress it up. Roman's called them ?patricians", the middle ages gave us the notion of the ?great chain of being? chosen ?by the grace of God? to dominate. Old Mythologies die hard. Today we use terms like "entrepreneurs, risk takers, employers" to dress up the veneer of treating the elite favorably. Meanwhile they pay less taxes and the middle and lower is soaked. Anyone with a clue knows, it's not just about "hard work", in reality for the most part, success is about market position. See there is a difference between Lord Sagan and you. He went to prep school. You went to the public high school. He has wealthy friends, wealthy family, who will bankroll him now that it's his turn. Ask some of his friends to bankroll your business. Let me know if they stop laughing before they throw you out. Even if you managed to talked them into bankrolling some business of yours, you?re get exactly one chance. If you lose, you won?t be getting a second chance. Credit ruined, name ruined and back to work, w-2 SS payer. Lord Segan could dabble in this and that until he finds his gimmick because he can afford to. See how it works? People with money help each other out. They don?t help out people who don?t have any.

 

[KAMAZON]

Originally posted by: Budmantom
It crazy how we demonize the rich yet they are the ones that keep this country running.

I wonder how far behind the rest of the country is.



NY Post

Something like:

Top 1% of the *nation* pays 50% of the taxes of their county I'll bet or something equally as skewed lol.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Zebo
You don't need a tax attorney to understand tax-free compounding of income is where most rich people get their money from.

Let me break this down as SIMPLE as possible for everyone to understand. I leaving out other huge benefits business owner will get like partial use of tax free assets.Where do the tax free fully depreciated assets go? and such...

John is a entrepreneur opening a burger shop

Chris is a staff accountant for Ford.

John opens burger shop with $50,000 and pays himself $10,000 a year reinvesting most all profits back into business, growing more shops each year and eventually sells the 10 shops for 10 million.

John pays no Federal income tax on the $200,000 he got in salary he got over years except 7.5% SS/MED or about $15,000

John pays 15% of 10 million or 1.5 million from sale of his business.

Total taxes paid by John is $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.
________________________________
Chris is a damn good accountant so he makes $300,000 a year for 20 years.
But he will pay more in taxes than John even though he makes 4 million less.
According to Turbo tax Chirs pays $82,000 a year in income taxes on his $200,000 plus $9800 SS/MED
Chris pays $92,600 a year in taxes or $1,852,000 over 20 years

Total taxes paid by Chris $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit


See the problem yet y'all? It get worse when you lower incomes and take into account all taxes, local, sales, property etc etc. Capital gains tax treatment is a fantastic advantage for the wealthy. Instead of being taxed every month like everyone else the gains remain untaxed until the asset is sold and at a reduced rate with no additional levies like SS and MED.

Cliffs:
Chris the W2 employee pays $1,852,000 on 6 million in profit.
John the entrepreneur pays $1,515,000 on 10.2 million in profit.

No, I don't see the problem. What I see is the pov that you completely overlooked. How much tax revenue and employment did John generate opening businesses vs. Chris, who employed nobody?

Do you not see the difference and not comprehend why some people get tax breaks while others don't? John provided a service that benefitted the common good by employing people. Chris had a job that benefitted himself. John took a risk. Chris worked in corporate America. John should get tax breaks and if Chris was actually a good accountant, he would have taken advantage of them himself by opening his own businesses. The opportunity was available and he didn't take it.

Sure - I understand that viewpoint but I disagree because I could have just as easily cited Jason who buys and sells gas wells or Tammy who has her own hedge fund both with no employees which calls into question 'common good' of employing but they get the same tax breaks.

Anyway why should the government really be making value judgments? Then the Doctors should not even be taxed while taxing cigarette makers 100% since Doctors are far more valuable than Cigarette makers in almost everyones eyes.

I also disagree because it also promotes a continuation of generational social hierarchy no matter how you dress it up. Roman's called them ?patricians", the middle ages gave us the notion of the ?great chain of being? chosen ?by the grace of God? to dominate. Old Mythologies die hard. Today we use terms like "entrepreneurs, risk takers, employers" to dress up the veneer of treating the elite favorably. Meanwhile they pay less taxes and the middle and lower is soaked. Anyone with a clue knows, it's not just about "hard work", in reality for the most part, success is about market position. See there is a difference between Lord Sagan and you. He went to prep school. You went to the public high school. He has wealthy friends, wealthy family, who will bankroll him now that it's his turn. Ask some of his friends to bankroll your business. Let me know if they stop laughing before they throw you out. Even if you managed to talked them into bankrolling some business of yours, you?re get exactly one chance. If you lose, you won?t be getting a second chance. Credit ruined, name ruined and back to work, w-2 SS payer. Lord Segan could dabble in this and that until he finds his gimmick because he can afford to. See how it works? People with money help each other out. They don?t help out people who don?t have any.

Oh yeah. You could have just as easily as cited those, but you didn't. Because Jason's gas wells still employ people and Tammy's hedge fund is not really a valid comparison. Nice stretch though.

btw, the rich don't pay less in taxes in dollar value. Not by a long shot. What the dupes in here are claiming is that the rich don't pay as much as SOME people who pay taxes, specifiically a certain percetantage that falls above the top 50% of earners. Well not shit, Sherlock. The bottom 50% don't pay the same amount either. Go figure. The rich already pay the vast amount.

Benefits gained by the government by taxing wage earners at certain rates. And when it comes down to it, percentages really don't meant shit, because percentages are skewed at both ends. But ask yourself, at which end are they most skewed? I wouldn't even dare to say that it's the 1% end that pays 39% of the taxes in this country already, despite all their alleged tax breaks and tax shelters.

As far as the rest of your ignorant asumptions about me, you are so far off base that it's not even worth addressing.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken


btw, the rich don't pay less in taxes in dollar value.

True. So what - they make more and should pay more. Since their very richness in the result of system in place. From an educated work force, police, to the Fed, to the courts, to everything else they use more of it and benefit more from it. Without those system in place they would be one rich guy like in Zimbabwe and everyone else because the sorta rich we would off

But ask yourself, at which end are they most skewed?

Only Federal income tax is progressive. All other taxes are regressive. Excise (like gas), Sales, Utility, SS, Medicaid, property, etc. and why we have a largely flat tax system already - just with a load of paper work.

I wouldn't even dare to say that it's the 1% end that pays 39% of the taxes in this country already

Me neither I'd say the top 1% of Federal tax payers pay 23% of federal receipts. but it's meaningless without context. How much wealth did they make relative to the other 99%? What is their percentage of all income vs. AGI vs. tax paid, is it really comparatively progressive after that?

As far as the rest of your ignorant asumptions about me, you are so far off base that it's not even worth addressing.

Was just an example showing how money can help someone out, relax.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Another way to look at it is: Poor blue collar guy works 40 hours/week and has $30k. Rich guy works 40 hours/week and has 4000k and pays 1500k of that in taxes, both put in effort, one guy is rich. Fairness is hard to nail down.

Blue collar guy has enough for 3 square meals a day, a wide screen TV, a car etc. Meanwhile, in a lot of African countries you are lucky if you get any food at all. From African guy's perspective, 'blue collar' guy is loaded.

It's not that fairness is hard to nail down, from an existential perspective, it doesn't exist.

yea and if you go to a section 8 nieghborhood it is fair to have a big screen a cadillac and a I phone...

how? the rest of us are enabling them.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: retrospooty
I have heard that before... I call total BS

Show me a real verifiable link that shows the top earning 1% pays 50% of the countries income tax.

Also, show a verifiable link to the lower x percentage that pays zero tax. Also total BS

The IRS numbers are out there.

For the country as a whole the bottom 50% pay about 3% of income tax.

The top 25% pay 86% of all income taxes.

And the top 1% pay 39% of all income taxes.

BTW all those numbers went up under Bush.

How dare those that control most of the wealth be expected to pay most of the taxes.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: Zebo
... See there is a difference between Lord Sagan and you. He went to prep school. You went to the public high school. He has wealthy friends, wealthy family, who will bankroll him now that it's his turn. Ask some of his friends to bankroll your business. Let me know if they stop laughing before they throw you out. Even if you managed to talked them into bankrolling some business of yours, you?re get exactly one chance. If you lose, you won?t be getting a second chance. Credit ruined, name ruined and back to work, w-2 SS payer. Lord Segan could dabble in this and that until he finds his gimmick because he can afford to. See how it works? People with money help each other out. They don?t help out people who don?t have any.

All of this is generally true, with some rare exceptions. Not to mention that a lot of rich people hate poor people for some reason I cannot fully explain. Perhaps they realize how fragile it all is, and fear joining them.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: retrospooty
I have heard that before... I call total BS

Show me a real verifiable link that shows the top earning 1% pays 50% of the countries income tax.

Also, show a verifiable link to the lower x percentage that pays zero tax. Also total BS

The IRS numbers are out there.

For the country as a whole the bottom 50% pay about 3% of income tax.

The top 25% pay 86% of all income taxes.

And the top 1% pay 39% of all income taxes.

BTW all those numbers went up under Bush.

How dare those that control most of the wealth be expected to pay most of the taxes.

LOL... Good point.

But, I still have not seen any verifiable link to show that any of this is true.