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Top 1% pays 50% of the taxes.

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Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644
I know personally dozens of people worth 100s of millions and several worth billions.

LMAO, sure you do. You're also a billionaire yourself, have a garage full of exotics, married a supermodel and benchpress 800 lbs, just like everyone else in the forum.

This is why people don't respond to you. You talk nothing but bullshit.

While I'm generally not responding to Boberfett, I have to note he's finally displaced vic as the worst poster in the forum IMO.

A past friend of mine comes from one of the leading Seattle families - he took me on a boat ride from one of their homes on the same lake as Bill Gates over to see Gates' house, passing their family friends the Nordstroms. He was able to get billionare Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen, another family friend, to bring his bought and paid for rock band to play a gig. He lived modestly at the time, with roommates. (Not any more - he married a beautiful golf pro from Palm Springs and got a nice house now).

I see no reason to doubt Segan's statements; I can't say they're right, but they ring true.

(For what it's worth, though, my friend isn't one of the 'liberal rich' - he has a family-driven hatred of anything to do with unions, though he doesn't understand them much.

Rather, he's almost completely apolitical, he just shuts down and gets unhappy and squirmy if politics comes up, no interest at all other than to hate anything about unions.)

(It was also through this friend that I learned how Paul Allen was screwing the people of Seattle to gouge them for tax subsidies for a sports franchise. Just pure greed.

The editorial view is mine, not his, he was neutral about it.)
 
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

Facts people, Facts.

32k to 78k pay 25% federal rate.

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

Never mind deductions and credits, and anything like that....

Not everyone has an accountant to help them cheat, if you're single with no kids then you're screwed.

If you truly believe that, look in the mirror. Your Democrats have built the tax code.
 
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

You mean the same deductions and credits that rich get, but even more? Way more?

You mean the credits that phase out?

BTW, your hero Clinton had people paying higher tax rates before Bush slashed all the brackets.

I wonder if that's why he was able to run a surplus and pay down the national debt... Maybe we should have tried that over the past 8 years instead of trying to fund two wars with no money...
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
We have tens of millions uninsured, and millions of people out of work, nice to see the right wing ideologues come here and demonstrate how out of touch they are with their priorities.


You posting partisan comments on this forum will not feed a hungry child.
 
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

Facts people, Facts.

32k to 78k pay 25% federal rate.

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

Never mind deductions and credits, and anything like that....

Not everyone has an accountant to help them cheat, if you're single with no kids then you're screwed.

If you truly believe that, look in the mirror. Your Democrats have built the tax code.

Hmm if you don't believe that then you are part of the problem.

Why do you think all of these lowlife losers have so many kids?

Man it's so hard being a responsible white man these days, eh comrade?
 
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

You mean the same deductions and credits that rich get, but even more? Way more?

You mean the credits that phase out?

BTW, your hero Clinton had people paying higher tax rates before Bush slashed all the brackets.

I wonder if that's why he was able to run a surplus and pay down the national debt... Maybe we should have tried that over the past 8 years instead of trying to fund two wars with no money...

Then why the hell are you libs complaining? You want tax money, you tax the middle and upper middle class. And that's what the Democrats do.
 
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: senseamp
We have tens of millions uninsured, and millions of people out of work, nice to see the right wing ideologues come here and demonstrate how out of touch they are with their priorities.


You posting partisan comments on this forum will not feed a hungry child.

GOP continuing to make itself a permanent minority party will help this country in the long run. They haven't learned anything from the last 8 years.
 
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

You mean the same deductions and credits that rich get, but even more? Way more?

You mean the credits that phase out?

BTW, your hero Clinton had people paying higher tax rates before Bush slashed all the brackets.

I wonder if that's why he was able to run a surplus and pay down the national debt... Maybe we should have tried that over the past 8 years instead of trying to fund two wars with no money...

Republican voters aren't too good at math. In their formulas, only the 'tax cuts' count; the fact that the money is borrowed and owed by taxpayers, they don't care about.

The fact that most taxpayers got a joke of a cut while the top got the big cuts under Bush - disproporationately high for their taxes paid - they don't notice.

They happily lap up the slogan 'everyone got a cut' that the propagandists fed them.
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: senseamp
We have tens of millions uninsured, and millions of people out of work, nice to see the right wing ideologues come here and demonstrate how out of touch they are with their priorities.


You posting partisan comments on this forum will not feed a hungry child.

GOP continuing to make itself a permanent minority party will help this country in the long run. They haven't learned anything from the last 8 years.

Only if the Democrats resists further encroachments by the same wealthy interests that do already have a lot of influence, and they don't become the 'new Republicans'.
 
Originally posted by: ayabe

Hmm if you don't believe that then you are part of the problem.

Why do you think all of these lowlife losers have so many kids?

Man it's so hard being a responsible white man these days, eh comrade?

Not suprising, really, when Obama and the blue states hand out cash to their welfare queens. He doesnt care about responsible white men.

He's putting gas in their tank and all that.
 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Ah, a realistic answer. Never mind that for every "Pursuit of Happyness" story, there's a George W. Bush, son of a successful businessman and President, grandson of a railroad baron, who was able to float through life wanting for nothing because his family was wealthy before he was ever born. For every kid from the ghetto who was able to get an education and a nice scholarship to a great university, there's a Paris Hilton who has literally zero marketable talents, but shitloads of money because daddy owns some hotels.

I'd like to see this backed up.

Trust fund babies are a rare breed. There are lots more people living a comfortable lifestyle through hard work than there are Paris Hiltons.

Granted, trust fund babies on the scale of Paris Hilton are few and far between. However, so are the people who come from abject poverty building themselves into millionaires. The fact of the matter is money begets money. So while Bill Gates made billions out of virtually nothing, we can't forget that he was the son of a prominent lawyer and the grandson of a banking magnate; he wasn't the richest kid in the world, but being in the upper eschelon to begin with allowed him access to finer education then you'd find in a poverty stricken inner city school (for example).

My aunt is well off. She's not hugely rich, but she'd certainly be in the upper 1 percent of earners (techincally her husband would be). They were able to put their children through private school from a young age, which makes admission into higher caliber colleges easier, which translated into her sons getting advanced degrees from fine schools. One is working as a financial advisor in San Francisco where he makes a high six figure income and the possibilities for growth are astronomical. He works damn hard, and I won't say he's undeserving of his income, but without the help of all that expensive education in his past, how likely is it that he would be as financially successful as he is now? Not very.

I work at a private K-12 which caters to a clientele that can afford to spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on education for their children. We have the sons and daughters of company presidents, CEOs, CFOs, doctors, lawyers, and the wealthy elite of the area in attendance. Financial aid is made available to some students, but the simple fact is that most of our clientele is wealthy and can afford not only the tuition, but further donations on top of that. But looking at the graduation statistics, in the last three years, only one student has not been enrolled in college at the time of graduation. There are zero public high schools in the country that can make that claim.

The fact is money begets money. Money opens doors to educational opportunities, which lead to further opportunity for money. Drive, commitment and a dedicated work ethic are absolutely important factors, yes. But budmanton's ridiculous claim of "pulling yourself up by the bootstraps" ignores the fact that most of today's super-rich came from backgrounds that already had the financial means to allow them to obtain an education and pursue their dreams in a way that's not usually possible in a family where a child is expected to contribute financially at a young age.
 
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Ah, a realistic answer. Never mind that for every "Pursuit of Happyness" story, there's a George W. Bush, son of a successful businessman and President, grandson of a railroad baron, who was able to float through life wanting for nothing because his family was wealthy before he was ever born. For every kid from the ghetto who was able to get an education and a nice scholarship to a great university, there's a Paris Hilton who has literally zero marketable talents, but shitloads of money because daddy owns some hotels.

I'd like to see this backed up.

Trust fund babies are a rare breed. There are lots more people living a comfortable lifestyle through hard work than there are Paris Hiltons.

Granted, trust fund babies on the scale of Paris Hilton are few and far between. However, so are the people who come from abject poverty building themselves into millionaires. The fact of the matter is money begets money. So while Bill Gates made billions out of virtually nothing, we can't forget that he was the son of a prominent lawyer and the grandson of a banking magnate; he wasn't the richest kid in the world, but being in the upper eschelon to begin with allowed him access to finer education then you'd find in a poverty stricken inner city school (for example).

My aunt is well off. She's not hugely rich, but she'd certainly be in the upper 1 percent of earners (techincally her husband would be). They were able to put their children through private school from a young age, which makes admission into higher caliber colleges easier, which translated into her sons getting advanced degrees from fine schools. One is working as a financial advisor in San Francisco where he makes a high six figure income and the possibilities for growth are astronomical. He works damn hard, and I won't say he's undeserving of his income, but without the help of all that expensive education in his past, how likely is it that he would be as financially successful as he is now? Not very.

I work at a private K-12 which caters to a clientele that can afford to spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on education for their children. We have the sons and daughters of company presidents, CEOs, CFOs, doctors, lawyers, and the wealthy elite of the area in attendance. Financial aid is made available to some students, but the simple fact is that most of our clientele is wealthy and can afford not only the tuition, but further donations on top of that. But looking at the graduation statistics, in the last three years, only one student has not been enrolled in college at the time of graduation. There are zero public high schools in the country that can make that claim.

The fact is money begets money. Money opens doors to educational opportunities, which lead to further opportunity for money. Drive, commitment and a dedicated work ethic are absolutely important factors, yes. But budmanton's ridiculous claim of "pulling yourself up by the bootstraps" ignores the fact that most of today's super-rich came from backgrounds that already had the financial means to allow them to obtain an education and pursue their dreams in a way that's not usually possible in a family where a child is expected to contribute financially at a young age.

money begets money you say....

funny that you use school as your example....maybe the people who rely on welfare shouldn't have multiple kids they cannot afford so that they can educate their kids properly (school supplies, clothes, food, extra curricular activities, etc)...

these kids in turn are pregnant before they graduate high cycle and the cycle continues.

how are they ever going to break the cycle and improve their standings if they continue to do this?
 
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
I work at a private K-12 which caters to a clientele that can afford to spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on education for their children. We have the sons and daughters of company presidents, CEOs, CFOs, doctors, lawyers, and the wealthy elite of the area in attendance. Financial aid is made available to some students, but the simple fact is that most of our clientele is wealthy and can afford not only the tuition, but further donations on top of that. But looking at the graduation statistics, in the last three years, only one student has not been enrolled in college at the time of graduation. There are zero public high schools in the country that can make that claim.

There in lies the problem. If public schools actually worked, they wouldn't have to be funded through 'public' means. Parents would have no trouble getting private loans because the lending companies would know that the students would make enough money to pay off the debt down the road.

 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
I work at a private K-12 which caters to a clientele that can afford to spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on education for their children. We have the sons and daughters of company presidents, CEOs, CFOs, doctors, lawyers, and the wealthy elite of the area in attendance. Financial aid is made available to some students, but the simple fact is that most of our clientele is wealthy and can afford not only the tuition, but further donations on top of that. But looking at the graduation statistics, in the last three years, only one student has not been enrolled in college at the time of graduation. There are zero public high schools in the country that can make that claim.

There in lies the problem. If public schools actually worked, they wouldn't have to be funded through 'public' means. Parents would have no trouble getting private loans because the lending companies would know that the students would make enough money to pay off the debt down the road.

It's the old 'don't fund the government program and then say it shouldn't be funded because it doesn't work' problem. Well-funded, well-run public education works well.
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
I work at a private K-12 which caters to a clientele that can afford to spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on education for their children. We have the sons and daughters of company presidents, CEOs, CFOs, doctors, lawyers, and the wealthy elite of the area in attendance. Financial aid is made available to some students, but the simple fact is that most of our clientele is wealthy and can afford not only the tuition, but further donations on top of that. But looking at the graduation statistics, in the last three years, only one student has not been enrolled in college at the time of graduation. There are zero public high schools in the country that can make that claim.

There in lies the problem. If public schools actually worked, they wouldn't have to be funded through 'public' means. Parents would have no trouble getting private loans because the lending companies would know that the students would make enough money to pay off the debt down the road.

It's the old 'don't fund the government program and then say it shouldn't be funded because it doesn't work' problem. Well-funded, well-run public education works well.

You mean like DC public schools, which spend more money per pupil than Sidwell.
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
It's the old 'don't fund the government program and then say it shouldn't be funded because it doesn't work' problem. Well-funded, well-run public education works well.

Then a private school funded through private loans should have no problem working well as well. At a minimum all they would have to do is copy what the public schools are doing (a pretty low bar). Do you understand the logic?
 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Craig234
It's the old 'don't fund the government program and then say it shouldn't be funded because it doesn't work' problem. Well-funded, well-run public education works well.

Then a private school funded through private loans should have no problem working well as well. At a minimum all they would have to do is copy what the public schools are doing (a pretty low bar). Do you understand the logic?

I don't see what point you are making in terms of any response to what I said. I never said private schools don't work well, for those who can pay for them.

You are discussing whether schools can work period; the public vs. private debate is more about the issue of providing education for the poor, about 'universal education'.
 
Originally posted by: chess9
Show me the tax returns and employment contracts of the top 1% and I'll show you a large group of tax cheats, overpaid swindlers, fat cats eating out of the corporate dining room and off the fat of the company, and so much more. I'll bet their actual tax rates are lower than the average Americans'.

I worked in a tax law firm for two years (I'd aced my tax courses in law school so they thought they'd give me a shot even though I didn't have an LLM.). Anyway, I never saw so many tax avoidance schemes in my life. LOL! They were paying the senior partner $200 an hour in 1973 for a reason....

The naivete on this board is beyond astounding....

-Robert

as is the elitism in your post.
 
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: bbdub333
Originally posted by: retrospooty
I made only 12,000 one year and $14,000 the next and I still paid a few thousand in taxes each year.

You are either a liar or an idiot if this is the case. Even if you had absolutely no deductions, you'd pay maybe $500 in income tax if this was all regular income from a regular job. If you really did pay a few thousand in taxes, you need to hire an accountant.

Liar,
I made $14.xxxK in 2008 (full time grad student) and before any deduction my I owed $772 in federal.

After tuition and health care credits I owed $0 in federal 🙂

FU - dont call me a liar. You have no idea what you are talking about. This is back in 1988 and 89, and that is what I paid, straight up, no deductions, no dependants, no property, nothing at all. I'm and old terd.

I am not saying my situation is normal, or current, just saying that there is no way that the poorer 50% of the people in this country pay almost zero taxes. Looking for legit link to that data, rather than a blog, or article or post from a right wink hack.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: retrospooty
I have heard that before... I call total BS

Show me a real verifiable link that shows the top earning 1% pays 50% of the countries income tax.

Also, show a verifiable link to the lower x percentage that pays zero tax. Also total BS
The IRS numbers are out there.

For the country as a whole the bottom 50% pay about 3% of income tax.

The top 25% pay 86% of all income taxes.

And the top 1% pay 39% of all income taxes.

BTW all those numbers went up under Bush.

Out there where? Link please? Sorry, but someone stating something on the internet or article doesnt make it true. Show me legit data or STFU !

There is no way that the bottom 50% of the people pay 3% of the tax. BS, thats fuxxy math at its finest.
 
Originally posted by: nealh
You know what I want to know is what your income was last yr from those who are posting

I work damn hard to earn money..I spent 13yrs getting educated. I was 32 yrs old before I had job making any money.

I pay more in taxes than most of you make....I dont have fancy lawyers and I dont cheat on my taxes...but I fed up listening to you guys whine I dont pay enough

I would bet my life all of you here who are bitching want to be wealthy someday ...there was a great poll take about taxes. They asked if people thought the rich pay enough in taxes..51% said NO
They asked the same people if they wanted to be wealthy and guess what they said yes...then they asked do you think you should pay more taxes if your were wealthy....guess the answer...NO

I have no problem paying a fair rate on my taxes...I cant stand the way the idiots in congress waste money with no care in the world

I probaby pay more sales tax than most do as well....I spend more...so I bet the wealthy still pay more sales taxes too....

Maybe the super rich(what they hell you define as rich) have ways to shelter money..but I refuse to go to jail to cheat on my taxes or stretch the line

I cant see how the wealthy paying more taxes will help any of you...do think Congress who currently gets more tax dollars than ever before needs more money to waste. Do you think they will get more fiscally responsible
Yes Congress get more tax dollars than ever before....less loop holes, lower rate and higher % of people paying their taxes and not cheating

I only hope I am there to hear you people when you make more money and need to pay higher taxes and see the idiots throw the money after sh*t

BTW I am not rich....I dont spend beyond my means, pay all my bills...if I cant afford it now, I dont get it. I have a home loan and monthly CC debt paid off every month(got love reward programs)

so in 13 years of education, you weren't required to take english classes?
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
I don't see what point you are making in terms of any response to what I said. I never said private schools don't work well, for those who can pay for them.

You are discussing whether schools can work period; the public vs. private debate is more about the issue of providing education for the poor, about 'universal education'.

Do you understand that achievement and willingness to work are assets that private lenders are willing to bank on? Future income potential is an asset, just like many other assets, which can be borrowed against.

For poor kids underachievement in school is the symptom, rather than the disease, of a poor home environment.

 
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: Craig234
I don't see what point you are making in terms of any response to what I said. I never said private schools don't work well, for those who can pay for them.

You are discussing whether schools can work period; the public vs. private debate is more about the issue of providing education for the poor, about 'universal education'.

Do you understand that achievement and willingness to work are assets that private lenders are willing to bank on? Future income potential is an asset, just like many other assets, which can be borrowed against.

For poor kids underachievement in school is the symptom, rather than the disease, of a poor home environment.

Not exactly, no. I understand that education increases the riches in society - some monetary, some not - to a point, and there is a public interest in investing in it.

I understand that education *can* be a restricted bottleneck to wealth, as it was a century+ ago, and that ti's a public policy issue to sinvest in it.

Your theory of private financing isn't without merit, but I suspect it has some holes, and may not be the optimal system by any means.
 
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: chess9
Show me the tax returns and employment contracts of the top 1% and I'll show you a large group of tax cheats, overpaid swindlers, fat cats eating out of the corporate dining room and off the fat of the company, and so much more. I'll bet their actual tax rates are lower than the average Americans'.

I worked in a tax law firm for two years (I'd aced my tax courses in law school so they thought they'd give me a shot even though I didn't have an LLM.). Anyway, I never saw so many tax avoidance schemes in my life. LOL! They were paying the senior partner $200 an hour in 1973 for a reason....

The naivete on this board is beyond astounding....

-Robert

as is the elitism in your post.

The last thing I am is an elitist. Don't draw conclusions from one post.

-Robert

 
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