Too Fat to Graduate: Lincoln University imposes new fitness rule

[Kaido]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/11/30/lincoln.fitness.overweight/index.html

Cliff's: If your BMI is above 30, you must take and complete a fitness course or you can't graduate.

At first I thought this was stupid, then I thought hey, that's actually a pretty good idea, but now I'm back to thinking it's stupid. I think the intentions behind the idea is good, but how would you feel if you were told you were too fat to graduate? Obviously Lincoln University hasn't seen the real world - so many middle-managers (among other workers) are hugely overweight, primarily as a result of the working conditions (late nights = drinking & junk food, travel = fast food, etc.), and yet they can do their jobs just fine. I'm not saying that those people shouldn't fix their lives and get in shape, but when you're overwork, kept up all night, and tired, it's hard to make good decisions, and that's how many jobs are, so a lot of people fall into that trap.

I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, yay for someone taking the initiative to help people get in better shape by requiring an exercise class, but on the other hand, you go to college because you're now an adult with your own choices to make, and if taking care of your body isn't a big priority in your life, well, that has nothing to do with academia. I absolutely hated P.E. in middle school and high school, and if I went to Lincoln, I probably would have switched colleges if it were before I made the personal, internal decision to get my body in shape. Plus what if you are obese by genetics and can't do much about it?

Seems like a stupid rule. Good intentions, but...it's college, not the army. I dunno. Just thought I'd throw it out there for discussion ^_^

 

[MrEgo]

Kind of a separate topic, but how much truth is there to the term "genetically obese"?

 

[Kipper]

Cornell has had a swim test for graduation for DECADES. PE requirements are pretty routine at liberal arts schools or any school with a liberal arts focus. It's just a class, not a requirement that you lose weight or cannot graduate.

The entire purpose of a university education is to produce educated persons, and this is a recognition that part of being an educated person is to to have some measure of physical fitness - or at the very least, have an understanding of what that constitutes. Mens sana in CORPORE SANO - a sound mind, in a SOUND BODY.

I should point out that cases of PURE genetic obesity are very rare (Prader-Willi, etc.). Predispositions, yes, are obviously widespread in the population - but predisposition does not equal a sentence. In any event, physical size should not serve as an impediment to physical fitness, with only a few exceptions. You can be fit at ANY size. Studies have shown that obese, fit people have a fraction of the cardiovascular and all-cause death risk that lean, unfit people do.

We tend to focus too much on weight and numbers instead of fitness overall.

Edit: perhaps what the university should do is make the requirement universal, instead of targeting those with excess weight.

 

[Kaido]

Kind of a separate topic, but how much truth is there to the term "genetically obese"?

I dunno. I suspect some people have it, but that it's rare. One music professor I had said that in her 30 years of private training, she had only ever encountered ONE person who was tone-deaf. I think a lot of things are like that - there's an excuse available and people jump on the bandwagon. Our culture is fast food & staying up late, which is pretty much gauranteed to make anybody fat. Worked for me at least :awe: Once I started going to bed at a reasonable hour, eating better, and exercising a bit, I lost a ton of weight. So meh. I think it's mostly lifestyle for most people.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Kind of a separate topic, but how much truth is there to the term "genetically obese"?

There is a ton of truth. There are thyroid disorders (and some other diseases), which may make someone obese through 100% genetics. There are slow metabolisms, which are PART of the equation. And then there are people who just like to eat too much. Everything in life is a nature vs. nurture argument. How much genetics affects one's body composition depends on the individual.

 

[Kaido]

Cornell has had a swim test for graduation for DECADES. PE requirements are pretty routine at liberal arts schools or any school with a liberal arts focus. It's just a class, not a requirement that you lose weight or cannot graduate.

The entire purpose of a university education is to produce educated persons, and this is a recognition that part of being an educated person is to to have some measure of physical fitness - or at the very least, have an understanding of what that constitutes. Mens sana in CORPORE SANO - a sound mind, in a SOUND BODY.

I should point out that cases of PURE genetic obesity are very rare (Prader-Willi, etc.). Predispositions, yes, are obviously widespread in the population - but predisposition does not equal a sentence. In any event, physical size should not serve as an impediment to physical fitness, with only a few exceptions. You can be fit at ANY size. Studies have shown that obese, fit people have a fraction of the cardiovascular and all-cause death risk that lean, unfit people do.

We tend to focus too much on weight and numbers instead of fitness overall.

Yeah, I think the article is kind of overblown in that you don't have to meet a certain BMI number, just take & complete a class. If you at least show up, you'd probably at least get by with a 'D' if you didn't do anything.

What's this swim test you speak of?

 

[Kaido]

There is a ton of truth. There are thyroid disorders (and some other diseases), which may make someone obese through 100% genetics. There are slow metabolisms, which are PART of the equation. And then there are people who just like to eat too much. Everything in life is a nature vs. nurture argument. How much genetics affects one's body composition depends on the individual.

Yeah, my friend had a thyroid disorder and shot up a good 70 or 80 pounds in about a year and had NO idea what was going on, since he didn't even eat bad. Once he got on the thyroid meds, he was back to normal in no time!

 

[MrEgo]

I think that term came about because obese parents are likely going to raise an obese child because the child will share the same eating habits as the parents. It shouldn't be a shocker that there is a correlation between obese parents and obese children.

But yeah.. a convenient excuse for obese people to justify not trying to correct it.

*edit - thank you to the above posters for the responses. I still think the term is still way overly used, though.

 

[brikis98]

If they are going to do it, then EVERYONE at the university should be required to take it. For one thing, BMI is a poor indicator of health - there are plenty of extremely unhealthy skinny people too. Moreover, if the goal is to have all students be fit in mind and body, then fitness education for everyone would be beneficial. Some universities already have PE classes and even swim tests as requirements for graduation, so this shouldn't be any different. The key, of course, is teaching the class in such a way that the students don't just take it as a big joke.

 

[brikis98]

What's this swim test you speak of?

Cornell Swim Test. I think Harvard and a number of other universities have one as well. My guess is one of the ivy's (prob harvard) started it and the others all copied. For the Cornell one, you had to swim once across the pool on your chest, once on your back and once more anyway you want. If you failed, you had to take a swimming PE class.

 

[zebano]

My university required a personal wellness class. The lecture was two hours a week on healthy eating/exercise/STDs and other things I learned in grade school at the end it got into BMR and a few other number crunching games. The second part was two 1/2 semester courses, one was a fun introduction to a sport/skill (rockclimbing, kayaking, dance, racketball) where I took fencing, and a second part which was a fitness class (weightlifting, jogging or a few other cardio options) I took swimming.


I don't really see how a BMI under 30 really qualifies you to avoid this type of class.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

BMI is retarded. The entire football line is going to be obese according to BMI. Go by BF% and I'm on board.

 

[Bateluer]

BMI blows, but this a good start. Honestly, the entire student body should be required to take multiple semesters of PE, actual PE not lecture health courses, in order to graduate, regardless of their BMI.

 

[RESmonkey]

BMI is retarded. The entire football line is going to be obese according to BMI. Go by BF% and I'm on board.

this.

 

[Kipper]

BMI is retarded. The entire football line is going to be obese according to BMI. Go by BF% and I'm on board.

First, how many people are going to be on the football team at a major school? Thirty? Forty? A drop in the bucket. Football players don't exactly have low body fat, either. A fair amount of muscle mass, to be sure, but there is a bit of fat there as well. Simply because BMI is inapplicable to the football team is not a reason to toss it.

From the practitioner's standpoint, BMI is the easiest, cheapest, most effective way to assess risk. There are problems with the other alternatives - calipers require consistency and skill, and there is significant variation with differences in sex and race with the way body fat is distributed that may not be captured with calipers. Bioimpedance is notoriously inaccurate. Other methods (DXA, CT, hydrostatic weighing, etc.) are too expensive or too resource-intensive.

So is BMI perfect? No. But is it a convenient tool to use in addition to other markers to assess risk? Absolutely. This isn't to mention that virtually every relevant person should know that BMI is inapplicable to persons who are vigorously active (e.g. athletes). It does, however, apply pretty well to the general population...and it usually does.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

BMI is retarded. The entire football line is going to be obese according to BMI. Go by BF% and I'm on board.

I agree with BF% as a better testing method.

Really though, they should be instituting these tests in elementary and high schools, not just universities and colleges, as well as re-instituting mandatory PE classes. It's far easier to build healthy exercise habits when kids are younger.

Of course, you can't really test BF% in children as they are still growing and physically maturing, but if they're fit enough to pass a basic standard, that should be good enough.

I was required to take PE until Grade 10, and we had regular fitness testing. Among the tests: resting HR, 5 minute run (used to be 12 minutes in previous years), shuttle run (out and back sprints), pushups, situps, etc.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

First, how many people are going to be on the football team at a major school? Thirty? Forty? A drop in the bucket. Football players don't exactly have low body fat, either. A fair amount of muscle mass, to be sure, but there is a bit of fat there as well. Simply because BMI is inapplicable to the football team is not a reason to toss it.

From the practitioner's standpoint, BMI is the easiest, cheapest, most effective way to assess risk. There are problems with the other alternatives - calipers require consistency and skill, and there is significant variation with differences in sex and race with the way body fat is distributed that may not be captured with calipers. Bioimpedance is notoriously inaccurate. Other methods (DXA, CT, hydrostatic weighing, etc.) are too expensive or too resource-intensive.

So is BMI perfect? No. But is it a convenient tool to use in addition to other markers to assess risk? Absolutely. This isn't to mention that virtually every relevant person should know that BMI is inapplicable to persons who are vigorously active (e.g. athletes). It does, however, apply pretty well to the general population...and it usually does.

IcebergSlim's answer was just making a point. Think of the track and field athletes, some basketball players, baseball players, gymnasts, powerlifters, and a ton of non-involved gym rats. I myself am a lean, non-collegiate athlete and my BMI is over 25 - technically considered overweight. If the school were dedicating itself to the cause, it could hire a fair amount of competent fitness consultants. With ten individuals who could accurately measure with calipers, it would not be difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. From there, BF standards could be set. But even then, this whole thing would exclude those skinny individuals who are unhealthy. I think ALL should be required to take a class on healthy living and get to choose from there rather than being singled out and forced to do something they don't care about.

 

[Kipper]

IcebergSlim's answer was just making a point. Think of the track and field athletes, some basketball players, baseball players, gymnasts, powerlifters, and a ton of non-involved gym rats. I myself am a lean, non-collegiate athlete and my BMI is over 25 - technically considered overweight. If the school were dedicating itself to the cause, it could hire a fair amount of competent fitness consultants. With ten individuals who could accurately measure with calipers, it would not be difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. From there, BF standards could be set. But even then, this whole thing would exclude those skinny individuals who are unhealthy. I think ALL should be required to take a class on healthy living and get to choose from there rather than being singled out and forced to do something they don't care about.

The bottom line is that if the university shifts to having this as a general requirement, they sidestep the discrimination charge.

On a separate note, the difficulty with calipers is that as I mentioned, body fat distribution varies with the population and sex. It also does not differentiate between visceral fat and subcutaneous fat (the fat surrounding organs or directly under the skin). Visceral fat is the more dangerous of the two, which is why people who appear to be lean can in fact carry higher risk than overweight people because of differences in visceral fat. The only way to assess this would be DXA, CT, or MRI...none of which is cost-effective.

I'm also not aware of any authoritative epidemiological evidence that reliably associates body fat percentage with risk for disease and/or death. Most of the literature, based on nationally representative samples (NHANES) or mines data from the Framingham Heart Study, associate BMI with risk. So the university's choice to use BMI here is in fact pretty well supported - and it makes sense, based on the points I made above about BMI being the easiest, cheapest way to do this sort of risk assessment.

Can you imagine the administrative nightmare of lining up thousands of students ALL to have their skin pinched in various areas? Might be a logistics professional's payday, but it is definitely an administrator's nightmare.

Edit: Should also add I am dismayed that Lincoln hasn't taken steps to address the miserable food situation that most college campuses have (especially smaller, less well-funded ones) and has instead chosen to focus on exercise (instead of nutrition) - as if lack of exercise were the problem. There's no point in telling people they need to move more if they can negate ten hours of exercising with a 15-minute snack.