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Too bad Bush blew it
- Thread starter wirelessenabled
- Start date
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
No fan of Bush here.... but no matter how you look at it, global support for the US after 9/11 was only going to be a fleeting thing no matter who was in charge at the time. It's not like the world would still be in love with us today if someone else was president.
Jaskalas
Lifer
That is the price of war. Do you think if there had been new WMDs found in Iraq, (old ones were found), that the world might think differently? Europe being a bastion of liberal and pacifist groupthink, would condemn any action. Do you think Hugo Chavez would love us instead of building an anti-American alliance (with foreign partners such as Iran) in South America? Do you think without Iraq, that the Muslim countries wouldn?t swear for our death, or that Russia and China wouldn?t be interested in displacing us for world leadership?
The stage was set before September 11th, we are merely actors playing our part ? and while we have made a wrong move, that doesn?t erase the rest of the board. The stage as it exists today was created over generations, not in the last six years.
We are the top dog, being on top has its natural detractors. This also has a natural remedy through our decline, we will no longer be the world leader within 10 years. No one is going to change that. While our negative image will persist through many generations, the world will look to a new enemy to hate and loath, while still playing shell games to nurse off the wealth of the next great nation.
blackangst1
Lifer
Holy crap! Another Bush/war bashing thread! I havent seen one of these in a loooong time!
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
It's just a reminder of how everything was so perfect in the world before Bush. I mean the birds were chirping, the sun was shining, and the socialist from Europe liked us. Ahhh... the memories...
😉
blackangst1
Lifer
QFT. We never bombed innocent civi's or aspirin factories because our intel was 100% perfect, we never killed anyone in any conflicts, and no US military were ever killed. Man if only we had Clinton back to have all that again.
BoomerD
No Lifer
Bush has blown more things than a Saturday Night hooker...
Yes, we had MASSIVE world support after 9-11....MIGHT that have withered away? Sure, but it MIGHT have grown stronger IF Bush hadn't gone Gonzo and invaded Iraq with phonied intelligence reports.
Look at the handling of Katrina...
Look at the destruction of many environmental laws in the name of the almighty Dollar.
Look at all the "gimme's Big Oil has gotten under Bush.
While I tend to agree that a President can't take all the credit nor be assigned all the blame for things that happen in our economy, I DO believe the President can be credited or blamed at least in part. Under Clinton, the US economy expanded like wildfire...too bad the same can't be said for Bush.
(It IS the economy, Stupid!)
For whatever reason, less than 50% (2000--but with enough electoral votes) of the people in this great nation elected into the Presidency a man who managed to run several businesses into the ground, WHY would anyone expect him to be able to manage the huge corporation known as The United States of America?
Yes, we had MASSIVE world support after 9-11....MIGHT that have withered away? Sure, but it MIGHT have grown stronger IF Bush hadn't gone Gonzo and invaded Iraq with phonied intelligence reports.
Look at the handling of Katrina...
Look at the destruction of many environmental laws in the name of the almighty Dollar.
Look at all the "gimme's Big Oil has gotten under Bush.
While I tend to agree that a President can't take all the credit nor be assigned all the blame for things that happen in our economy, I DO believe the President can be credited or blamed at least in part. Under Clinton, the US economy expanded like wildfire...too bad the same can't be said for Bush.
(It IS the economy, Stupid!)
For whatever reason, less than 50% (2000--but with enough electoral votes) of the people in this great nation elected into the Presidency a man who managed to run several businesses into the ground, WHY would anyone expect him to be able to manage the huge corporation known as The United States of America?
No, it's not. Plenty of nations have had wars and come out just fine. The US fought in WWII, and that didn't exactly make us pariahs in the world.
It's the price of *unnecessary, agressive* war.
You're such an apologist, as if simply being the top dog is the only issue, and nothing the top dog does has any relevance. Benevolent or cruel? Who cares, it's all just jealousy.
BS. It's ignorant and it's wrong. The US has at times used its power for the good of people and has reaped a lot of goodwill as a result.
The question is how to keep the US doing good instead of doing as the poster above would have it, 'might makes right' amorality and immorality. He has no answer.
As for the US not being the top nation coming up, that's an important issue. It's precisely because the US does have a 'better way' than the nations like China, for individual human rights, that it's critical the US continue to be a force in the world spreading those values - and not have its own elite class, ever resentful of the increased advantages of the elites of other nations not having to deal with the people having much power, simply move the US to be more like China.
The only advantage the US is really preserving now - with its losing advantages in education, finance, political goodwill and other areas - is its military strength.
And that's a dangerous situation, leaving the US no choice but to forfeit power, or abuse force - the latter which would very likely lead to increased terrorism by the 'oppressed'.
That's consistent with the government foreseeing that and making terrorism the 'demon' for our society, lest the public have much sympathy for the terrorists.
The right would force the left to choose between a loss of power, and supporting the abuse of power - rather than the left having what it wants, a powerful US that does good.
The US will always have disdain thrown towards it by the rest of the world until there is another superpower.
As long as there is a unipower hegemon, that hegemon will be loathed by everyone else. Once theres a bipolar world again, which is inevitable, then the US will have countries desperately trying to crawl back into out safetynet.
As long as there is a unipower hegemon, that hegemon will be loathed by everyone else. Once theres a bipolar world again, which is inevitable, then the US will have countries desperately trying to crawl back into out safetynet.
Bush is a total disaster. He is a disaster in a thousand dimensions. This is just one. The subject of Bush as a disaster can never be exhausted. I guess it's pretty tough of folk who voted for Bush to know that they favored the greatest piece of shit ever to hit the United States. They would qualify as traitors if they weren't so fucking stupid.
spittledip
Diamond Member
sad...
AVAFREAK182
Banned
grrr bush
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Better tolerated then. One could go to a place like Scotland and not have people think you were some damn fool.
Not the case now.
manowar821
Diamond Member
Yeah, Pabster's a jerk. Just ignore him.
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