(Tom's) Seven GeForce GTX 660 Ti Cards: Exploring Memory Bandwidth

[3DVagabond]

Some here have already predicted the outcome. Some might be surprised. Read the whole REVIEW, but here are some highlights (lowlights?)

They tweaked the settings to stress the memory bandwidth rather than the GPU.

Conclusion: Emphasis Tom's

So what does this tell us?

We aren't saying that anyone else ran their benchmarks on Nvidia's GeForce GTX 660 Ti incorrectly. Really, the card that wins depends on games, settings, and resolutions. This card isn’t a good choice for less demanding titles, but it does make a strong showing when a lot of GPU performance and, relatively speaking, not a lot of memory bandwidth are needed. But this exposes the card's big issue. Nvidia's GeForce GTX 660 Ti isn’t really a premium card. It would need to perform better at higher-end settings to satisfy the folks shopping for a less expensive alternative to the GTX 670. If you're really only looking for a middle-of-the-road card to game at mainstream resolutions and modest settings, the less expensive Radeon HD 7870 is ample.

 

[SPBHM]

that's terrible...
Nvidia needs to lower the price of this card.

25% less ROPs/mem bandwidth reduction can make a lot of damage!

 

[notty22]

TH proved a point, but they tested in 1 or 2 games.

A review site could have done something similar in 1 game or more back when it was 1.5gb gtx 480 VS 5870 or even 5970 with only 1gb.
Choose one game, Crysis, choose resolution, raise the AA enough to bring the memory buffer over 1gb and Wala. 1 card tanks the other does not. I know they were exposing bandwidth there and not so much buffer size , I was just using a example, to show my opinion.

 

[3DVagabond]

TH proved a point, but they tested in 1 or 2 games.

A review site could have done something similar in 1 game or more back when it was 1.5gb gtx 480 VS 5870 or even 5970 with only 1gb.
Choose one game, Crysis, choose resolution, raise the AA enough to bring the memory buffer over 1gb and Wala. 1 card tanks the other does not. I know they were exposing bandwidth there and not so much buffer size , I was just using a example, to show my opinion.

If you look the 2gig 660ti is out performing the 3gig. Also the 7870 is only 2gig. The amt. of memory isn't the problem.

It's not just bandwidth, either. The 7870 beats the 670 and the 670 has the same size memory bus and faster RAM?

 

[Keysplayr]

If you look the 2gig 660ti is out performing the 3gig. Also the 7870 is only 2gig. The amt. of memory isn't the problem.

It's not just bandwidth, either. The 7870 beats the 670 and the 670 has the same size memory bus and faster RAM?

Again. It's one game. FXAA is perfect for this scenario and when used, you can also turn on PhysX is Batman AC.

See, there are pros and cons for every situation 3D.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Again. It's one game. FXAA is perfect for this scenario and when used, you can also turn on PhysX is Batman AC.

See, there are pros and cons for every situation 3D.

Sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade. This card is just ridiculously overpriced for the performance you are getting. They cut too much off the chip to be anywhere near the $300 price range.

 

[toyota]

it still makes no sense for the 7870 to be beating the 670 with 8x AA.

 

[3DVagabond]

it still makes no sense for the 7870 to be beating the 670 with 8x AA.

That's what's the most surprising (revealing?). What is it that's making GK104 tank w/ extreme AA so badly that the 7870 is faster than the 670?

 

[Keysplayr]

it still makes no sense for the 7870 to be beating the 670 with 8x AA.

Agreed

That's what's the most surprising (revealing?). What is it that's making GK104 tank w/ extreme AA so badly that the 7870 is faster than the 670?

Maybe the 7870 isn't applying AA to the entire scene. Magic drivers and all. That would be some reveal. Might be worth looking into.

 

[Cerb]

Again. It's one game. FXAA is perfect for this scenario and when used, you can also turn on PhysX is Batman AC.

See, there are pros and cons for every situation 3D.

FXAA still needs to be used with MSAA or SGSSAA, to be worth using at all, so there is no pro, only wasted money. I assume NV is still selling every one they can produce, so prices haven't needed to drop quite yet.

 

[Keysplayr]

Sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade. This card is just ridiculously overpriced for the performance you are getting. They cut too much off the chip to be anywhere near the $300 price range.

What do you mean? The 660Ti is giving performance on average greater than 7870 and up around 7950 performance. At least that is what I am seeing in many many reviews.
Of course, ANYONE would like to see lower prices and that goes without saying.

 

[Keysplayr]

FXAA still needs to be used with MSAA or SGSSAA, to be worth using at all, so there is no pro, only wasted money.

You mean, when I choose FXAA High level in Batman AC, I also have to overide for MSAA in the nvidia control panel for that game? I don't see why if that is what you're saying. Could you please elaborate and show me what you mean?

 

[KompuKare]

Maybe the 7870 isn't applying AA to the entire scene. Magic drivers and all. That would be some reveal. Might be worth looking into.

Hm, while both have done that kind of stuff before, I rather think NV have more form for that kind of thing...

@#!"£$ bumbgate (cough) @#!"£$

 

[Keysplayr]

Hm, while both have done that kind of stuff before, I rather think NV have more form for that kind of thing...

@#!"£$ bumbgate (cough) @#!"£$

Not applicable. Poor solder connections would not make a GPU not apply AA to an entire scene.

 

[KompuKare]

No of course not. And I didn't say or imply there's anything wrong with 660TI (except price), this is more along the lines of "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

And no the other choice is not really more moral or anything (Phenom's TLB bug), but as I've said before:

NV is a one-man show. Everything that's good about NV is JHH, everything that's bad about NV is JHH. And when a real problem occurred instead of setting the proper money aside to deal with it (which in IMO was a lot more than $250 million), JHH felt too personally attached to that money...

Seems Intel are the only ones willing to right by their consumers even if it costs them lots of money.

 

[Granseth]

If you look the 2gig 660ti is out performing the 3gig. Also the 7870 is only 2gig. The amt. of memory isn't the problem.

It's not just bandwidth, either. The 7870 beats the 670 and the 670 has the same size memory bus and faster RAM?

I agree it's strange how much worse the 3 GB 660TI perform compared to the 2 GB variant.

 

[ViRGE]

I'm all for cranking up the quality, but am I the only person that finds 8x MSAA a silly setting to use? When 4x MSAA doesn't solve your jaggies, 8x isn't going to do any better.

 

[KCfromNC]

Maybe the 7870 isn't applying AA to the entire scene. Magic drivers and all. That would be some reveal. Might be worth looking into.

Could be lots of things. Any reason to believe your idea is more likely than nVidia driver or silicon bugs, to pick another random cause out of thin air.

 

[96Firebird]

I'm all for cranking up the quality, but am I the only person that finds 8x MSAA a silly setting to use? When 4x MSAA doesn't solve your jaggies, 8x isn't going to do any better.

Especially with the cards used in the benchmark, just like people don't usually buy a 660Ti for 2560x resolutions.

 

[Keysplayr]

No of course not. And I didn't say or imply there's anything wrong with 660TI (except price), this is more along the lines of "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

And no the other choice is not really more moral or anything (Phenom's TLB bug), but as I've said before:

NV is a one-man show. Everything that's good about NV is JHH, everything that's bad about NV is JHH. And when a real problem occurred instead of setting the proper money aside to deal with it (which in IMO was a lot more than $250 million), JHH felt too personally attached to that money...

Seems Intel are the only ones willing to right by their consumers even if it costs them lots of money.

Anything else you'd like to add about bumpgate to this conversation about the 660Ti?

 

[Keysplayr]

I'm all for cranking up the quality, but am I the only person that finds 8x MSAA a silly setting to use? When 4x MSAA doesn't solve your jaggies, 8x isn't going to do any better.

Perhaps. Batman AC also has a few CSAA modes as well in it's options. I'll probably give those a run to see how they fare.

 

[Keysplayr]

Could be lots of things. Any reason to believe your idea is more likely than nVidia driver or silicon bugs, to pick another random cause out of thin air.

It could be either one. Difference is, I can admit that.

 

[tviceman]

I'm all for cranking up the quality, but am I the only person that finds 8x MSAA a silly setting to use? When 4x MSAA doesn't solve your jaggies, 8x isn't going to do any better.

Exactly. I was spouting this a few weeks ago, but the folks I was in an argument with kept glazing over it. It seems 8X AA is becoming the new minimum performance metric, although the difference in image quality between 4X and 8X AA is all but non-existent during live action.

 

[tviceman]

Without having overclocked the vram on any of the gtx660ti's they used for this article, it went from interesting and informative to dull and repetitive. I'd like to know if the drop off in performance is more of a result of shaving off a memory controller and losing the ROP's, or if it's more from the lower bandwidth itself.

 

[sontin]

Batman:AC is using a deferred Renderer. So it's hunting for bandwidth when MSAA is applied. AMD optimized their 8xMSAA performance with the latest drivers.