"Tom Brady prefer his balls to feel a certain way" - balls underinflated

[KeithTalent]

Im so sick of seeing this crap on TV. Its such a non issue as has been noted by practically all of the NFL players who have chimed in. All QBs have "something" they do to the balls. I agree it just sounds like Colts are sore losers at this point trying to make a mountain oout of a mole hill.

It's like the Ray Lewis deer antler spray from two years ago. Media making something out of nothing in the week(s) off before the Super Bowl.

KT

 

[SP33Demon]

Ah yes. Your amazing fantasy football expertise over the last couple of years of looking at spreadsheets supersedes any football knowledge that Jerry Rice would ever have.

I see what is going on here.

Your post makes zero sense, tell your mom she utterly failed by letting you drink antifreeze as a baby. I agree with Jerry Rice' opinion that it's cheating, this has nothing to do with my knowledge (which is more than yours anyway). BTW, still waiting for your PM to join our fantasy league and put your money where your mouth is.

 

[SP33Demon]

What are you talking about?

KT

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37103466&postcount=266

Jerry Rice' opinion will always be more relevant than yours.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Im so sick of seeing this crap on TV. Its such a non issue as has been noted by practically all of the NFL players who have chimed in. All QBs have "something" they do to the balls. I agree it just sounds like Colts are sore losers at this point trying to make a mountain oout of a mole hill.

Every single Colt that has been interviewed (that I've seen) say it didn't impact the game. Calling the Colts sore losers because your team is probably cheating is the height of homerism and idiocy.

 

[KeithTalent]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37103466&postcount=266

Jerry Rice' opinion will always be more relevant than yours.

Not to me, champ.

KT

 

[HomerJS]

Im so sick of seeing this crap on TV. Its such a non issue as has been noted by practically all of the NFL players who have chimed in. All QBs have "something" they do to the balls. I agree it just sounds like Colts are sore losers at this point trying to make a mountain oout of a mole hill.

So if Seattle punter decides to replace air in K ball with a 50/50 mix of air and helium NE would be ok with it?

 

[cubby1223]

Richard Sherman had a very good point, written about here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/22/richard-sherman-deflategate_n_6523248.html

Marshawn Lynch was planning on wearing gold shoes before the NFL threatened to suspend him for the playoff game if he wore them.

Break the rules and under-inflate footballs? Go ahead, you won't be punished!
"Accidentally" lean back and place your whole weight onto another player's ankle? Go ahead, you won't be punished!
Wear shoes of a different color? Oh hell no, suspend his ass!

 

[cubby1223]

So if Seattle punter decides to replace air in K ball with a 50/50 mix of air and helium NE would be ok with it?

Ooh, how about hydrogen filled balls being kicked hard? There's something at least the XFL should have done!

 

[Phokus]

Patriots fucking rule, 'they hate us cuz they ain't us'. And all that

I like how Aaron Rodgers can publicly say that he likes to overinflate balls past NFL spec and sneak them past the refs and invite no investigation/scrutiny (same with the Panthers literally using heaters to warm up balls on the sideline, another NFL no-no), but oh god, some butthurt team that constantly gets owned by the Pats just has a suspicion of underinflated balls and they need to kneecap the pats out of jealousy.

Also, for any butthurt steelers fans:

Most fans don’t know it, but before the game we would doctor the footballs that would be used. Until the season of 2000 it was up to the home team to provide twenty-four game balls to the officials for each game. A brand-new NFL football straight from the factory is not easy to throw or catch. It’s rock hard and very slippery. So in the privacy of the locker room before the game, players would take the footballs and rub them and scrub them to remove the glaze, or deflate them, then pump them up with air real big to stretch the leather. On some teams the kickers would put them through a cycle in the dryer. Some teams did this, but naturally not the Steelers, because we were righteous folk who would never stretch the rules, and when these other teams—not the Steelers—were finished, they would put them back in the plastic wrapping and right back in the box. Some teams—who were not the Steelers—after the officials had checked and approved the game balls, would let out a couple of pound of air to make it easier for the quarterback to grip it. A little less air would make the ball spongier. It was what might be called a perceived advantage-both teams played with the same ball.

http://books.google.com/books?id=wuWJhkUqRKEC&lpg=PA58&vq=doctor&pg=PA67#v=onepage&q=doctor&f=true

 

[IronWing]

Most fans don’t know it, but before the game we would doctor the footballs that would be used. Until the season of 2000 it was up to the home team to provide twenty-four game balls to the officials for each game. A brand-new NFL football straight from the factory is not easy to throw or catch. It’s rock hard and very slippery. So in the privacy of the locker room before the game, players would take the footballs and rub them and scrub them to remove the glaze, or deflate them, then pump them up with air real big to stretch the leather. On some teams the kickers would put them through a cycle in the dryer. Some teams did this, but naturally not the Steelers, because we were righteous folk who would never stretch the rules, and when these other teams—not the Steelers—were finished, they would put them back in the plastic wrapping and right back in the box. Some teams—who were not the Steelers—after the officials had checked and approved the game balls, would let out a couple of pound of air to make it easier for the quarterback to grip it. A little less air would make the ball spongier. It was what might be called a perceived advantage-both teams played with the same ball.

All of that is legal under the rules except for the deflation part. There is nothing in the rules to prevent a team from attaching wings and a parachute to the ball, as long as it meets the deflation standard and is not corrugated.

 

[cubby1223]

In Brady's next press conference many expect him to deny any knowledge of using flexballs.

(on a side note, whomever at Gillette put that there needs a serious raise)

 

[Phokus]

All of that is legal under the rules except for the deflation part. There is nothing in the rules to prevent a team from attaching wings and a parachute to the ball, as long as it meets the deflation standard and is not corrugated.

Untrue, putting the ball in the dryer would DEFINITELY be against the rules (as is trying to pump up the ball past is stretching point, basically altering the ball).

 

[IronWing]

Untrue, putting the ball in the dryer would DEFINITELY be against the rules (as is trying to pump up the ball past is stretching point, basically altering the ball).

Rule 2 The Ball
Section 1
BALL DIMENSIONS

The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell.

The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.

The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

Section 2
BALL SUPPLY
Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game. These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.
In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the Commissioner.
In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center. The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).
Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field.

 

[darkewaffle]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/b...re-a-front-row-seat-for-the-foxborough-farce/

Loved this piece, Pierce can really write.

 

[Anubis]

Patriots fucking rule, 'they hate us cuz they ain't us'. And all that

I like how Aaron Rodgers can publicly say that he likes to overinflate balls past NFL spec and sneak them past the refs and invite no investigation/scrutiny (same with the Panthers literally using heaters to warm up balls on the sideline, another NFL no-no), but oh god, some butthurt team that constantly gets owned by the Pats just has a suspicion of underinflated balls and they need to kneecap the pats out of jealousy.

yea that's really what it seems like now, people pissed off they lost, same thing with spygate, everyone fing did it, someone just got pissed that pats did it better

 

[Sho'Nuff]

So if Seattle punter decides to replace air in K ball with a 50/50 mix of air and helium NE would be ok with it?

Probably, because 95% of kickoffs are not returned anymore.

 

[edro]

I am hearing now that they inflated to 12.5psi (minimum) and the balls lost 2 psi before and during play.
That seems unlikely...

We need someone to do some testing.

 

[SP33Demon]

Patriots fucking rule, 'they hate us cuz they ain't us'. And all that

I like how Aaron Rodgers can publicly say that he likes to overinflate balls past NFL spec and sneak them past the refs and invite no investigation/scrutiny (same with the Panthers literally using heaters to warm up balls on the sideline, another NFL no-no), but oh god, some butthurt team that constantly gets owned by the Pats just has a suspicion of underinflated balls and they need to kneecap the pats out of jealousy.

Also, for any butthurt steelers fans:
http://books.google.com/books?id=wuWJhkUqRKEC&lpg=PA58&vq=doctor&pg=PA67#v=onepage&q=doctor&f=true

Rodgers never said he overinflates past NFL spec, just that he likes them fully inflated:

Rodgers said he likes the ball to be inflated because of his strong grip pressure and large hand size but doesn't believe that's the norm.

"The majority of quarterbacks, I would say more than half, are maybe on the other end of the spectrum and like it on the flatter side," he said on his show. "My belief is that there should be a minimum air-pressure requirement but not a maximum. There's no advantage, in my opinion -- we're not kicking the football -- there's no advantage in having a pumped-up football.

"There is, if you don't have strong grip pressure or smaller hands, an advantage to having a flat football, though, because that is easier to throw. So I think that is something they need to look at. There should be a minimum on the air pressure but not a maximum. Every game they're taking air out of the footballs I'm throwing, and I think that's a disadvantage for the way that I like them prepped."
...
"The majority of people don't like throwing brand-new footballs, and that's why the change was made and Peyton was big on helping all the quarterbacks out with that," Rodgers said. "But if they're going to let us prep them the way we want them, I don't believe they should be able to take air out of the footballs."

Despite the fact that Rodgers does not seem to know that there is already a minimum requirement for inflation, he makes it clear that he feels that air should never be taken out. And I agree with Rodgers that a fully inflated ball provides no advantage to anyone, and it's not something they are going to ever test for. A DB isn't going to think "dam, that ball feels like there's a roll of quarters in it!" because no team is going to ever make a ball heavier on purpose, i.e. harder to catch. The only time I could see a super heavy ball (i.e. harder to catch) being an advantage would be on a squib kick kickoff/punts. However, kickoff balls are actually regulated by the officials so that would never happen.

Kicking footballs are shipped directly from the manufacturer to the official of the game. He then opens the eight balls prior to the game and a representative from each team is allowed 45 minutes to use brushes, towels and water to remove the slickness of a new ball, according to MMQB. At that point, the balls go under the control of the kicking ball coordinator. The coordinator keeps watch of the eight specially marked kicking balls during the game and works directly with the officials to get them into play, according to Newsday.

I don't see why the NFL couldn't just handle game balls the same as kicking balls. Just employ another coordinator for game balls, and you still keep the original kicking ball coordinator.

One silly thought: What if Odell Beckham's 2 finger catch was really the use of magnets? What if the NYG put magnets in the ball, and Beckham's gloves have magnets that stick to the ones in the ball? If teams are really in possession of the ball the entire time (i.e. before the game), a ref would never notice specially doctored balls upon a routine inspection before the game. If I had millions of dollars at my disposal, I'd be looking into doctoring the ball and gloves that the receivers wear. Nobody would ever know.

 

[vi edit]

Despite the fact that Rodgers does not seem to know that there is already a minimum requirement for inflation, he makes it clear that he feels that air should never be taken out. And I agree with Rodgers that a fully inflated ball provides no advantage to anyone, and it's not something they are going to ever test for. A DB isn't going to think "dam, that ball feels like there's a roll of quarters in it!" because no team is going to ever make a ball heavier on purpose, i.e. harder to catch. The only time I could see a super heavy ball (i.e. harder to catch) being an advantage would be on a squib kick kickoff/punts. However, kickoff balls are actually regulated by the officials so that would never happen.

Are you implying that the actual weight makes it harder to catch?

 

[KeithTalent]

I am hearing now that they inflated to 12.5psi (minimum) and the balls lost 2 psi before and during play.
That seems unlikely...

We need someone to do some testing.

We really don't.

KT

 

[SP33Demon]

Are you implying that the actual weight makes it harder to catch?

A heavier ball is harder to catch because it has no give like a deflated ball which is easier to grip. That should be common sense, lol.

 

[Phokus]

There's probably other rules that this applies to, like the NFL caught the Panthers heating the balls and warned them not to do it again but that's not covered in your rules.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Rodgers never said he overinflates past NFL spec, just that he likes them fully inflated:

You must have missed his original comments on the subject:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.

 

[smackababy]

I am hearing now that they inflated to 12.5psi (minimum) and the balls lost 2 psi before and during play.
That seems unlikely...

We need someone to do some testing.

12.5 psi inside 70 degree facilities. I don't think it that unlikely for a ball to lose some PSI from spending near 3 hours out in the sub 50 weather, along with general use.

 

[vi edit]

The way you word it you make it seam like there is a meaningful weight difference. There's not.