"Tom Brady prefer his balls to feel a certain way" - balls underinflated

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should pats lose their spot to colts in the superbowl?

  • yes

  • no

  • RG3 is better than Luck


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emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,824
1,583
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uh, you know I was very on the Pats side but these text messages are pretty damning.

But what do the texts prove?


On Oct. 17, 2014, after Brady had complained angrily, the men exchanged these texts, the report says.
McNally: Tom sucks...im going make that next ball a f----- balloon
Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and
said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...
Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though...
Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs f----- us...a few of then (sic) were at almost 16
Jastremski: They didnt recheck then after they put air in them
McNally: F--- tom ...16 is nothing...wait till next sunday
Jastremski: Omg! Spaz

Like this series. It basically said Tom was mad because the balls were at 16. They were supposed to be at 12.5 and 13.5. If the balls were at 16, and Tom was upset at them. How is it that this guy was deflating them below 12.5 after the refs checked them?

I know I am a Pats fan. But these texts seem to not be really indicative of anything.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
Fine them, dock them draft pics for next year. Who cares they already got this year's picks in, it'll still hurt the organization. Sit Belichick for a year, Sean Peyton got as much for less for something he didn't even know was happening. Sit Brady for half a year.

They are repeat offenders.

I think they should both be suspended for the season if intent can be proved. Players have gotten one year suspensions for things that had nothing to do with the game at all (AP, Ray Rice). What was done here directly affects the integrity of the game which should be all the NFL cares about anyhow.

That being said, I believe this report left just enough wiggle room to give the NFL an easy way to not hand out harsh punishment.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
I think they should both be suspended for the season if intent can be proved. Players have gotten one year suspensions for things that had nothing to do with the game at all (AP, Ray Rice). What was done here directly affects the integrity of the game which should be all the NFL cares about anyhow.

That being said, I believe this report left just enough wiggle room to give the NFL an easy way to not hand out harsh punishment.
Saints coach was suspended for an entire year based on circumstantial evidence also and he had nothing to do with the hits. Bellicheat continues to skate cause of Robert KraPTs blowjob exchanges with Goodell. He flat out doesn't cause about integrity of the league at all.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
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Brady and Manning are the reason the rules changed to allow teams to prepare them. Can you possibly wonder why they would want that rule changed?

Brady also denied the NFL access to his text records. I'm sure it's because he's a huge privacy advocate, not that he has even MORE damning texts than the ones that were found. :rolleyes:

Brady lied to the NFL, he said he didn't even know the guys who handle the balls. Oops.

Good on you for not sticking up for your home team just because they are your home team. :thumbsup:

FTFY
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
688
126
That being said, I believe this report left just enough wiggle room to give the NFL an easy way to not hand out harsh punishment.

I wonder if the Patriots had lost the Super Bowl if the wording would have been a little more direct and clear......
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
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I think they should both be suspended for the season if intent can be proved. Players have gotten one year suspensions for things that had nothing to do with the game at all (AP, Ray Rice). What was done here directly affects the integrity of the game which should be all the NFL cares about anyhow.

That being said, I believe this report left just enough wiggle room to give the NFL an easy way to not hand out harsh punishment.

While I think you're right on the end result, they will use that wiggle room, it's not really any more damning than the evidence against Peyton.

The reason I said half a season was specifically AP and Rice, they punishment will be compared to the "crime". You don't want to punish a guy more for letting air out of the ball than beating a woman. I'd agree with the year suspension, but not given what happened last year.

Would this make Brady specifically a repeat offender to cheating? I don't recall if he was listed in the video scandal. If he was you could probably justify a harsher punishment than AP and Rice.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,824
1,583
136
Have to admit, I haven't had time to read the whole report. But this stuck out to me.

Clip from an ESPN article.

11 Patriots footballs vs. four Colts footballs. In rejecting Bill Belichick's explanation about the science of how PSI in footballs will naturally drop in certain conditions, the Wells report concluded that the average rate of drop in 11 Patriots footballs was significantly more than the average rate of drop in four Colts footballs. Why 11 to four? Because officials measured only four Colts footballs, as they were running out of time before the second half began. This simply isn't fair to take a larger sample size and compare it to a smaller sample size. For example, I could just as easily pick the initial four Patriots PSI measurements (a drop from 12.5 to 11.80, 11.20, 11.50 and 11.00 from alternate official Dyrol Prioleau), match them up with the four Colts measurements (a drop from an estimated 13.0/13.1 to 12.35, 12.30, 12.95 and 12.15 from Prioleau), and come to a different conclusion that the drop rates of PSI between the two teams were close. Also, it's clear when matching the PSI readings between the two alternate officials that there is margin for error in the readings. Thus, I reject the Wells report explanation for dismissing the role of science based on their usage of this uneven data between teams.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
But what do the texts prove?




Like this series. It basically said Tom was mad because the balls were at 16. They were supposed to be at 12.5 and 13.5. If the balls were at 16, and Tom was upset at them. How is it that this guy was deflating them below 12.5 after the refs checked them?

I know I am a Pats fan. But these texts seem to not be really indicative of anything.

UGH. I hate to agree with emperus. I just don't think these text prove shit. besides Brady is an asshole to the guys who keep his balls.

to me the text seem like they were taken out of context to hit the "probable" mark .
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
119
106
still no proof. hell, it's mostly the guy bitching that he's gonna over inflate to piss brady off. the whole thing is useless. just make sure the balls are regulation

one thing did sound shady though

fuck tom....make sure the pump is attached to the needle....fuckin watermelons coming

make sure the pump is attached to the needle? do they normally alter the needles or pump so that they don't typically function properly? not sure what else this could mean
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
still no proof. hell, it's mostly the guy bitching that he's gonna over inflate to piss brady off. the whole thing is useless. just make sure the balls are regulation

one thing did sound shady though



make sure the pump is attached to the needle? do they normally alter the needles or pump so that they don't typically function properly? not sure what else this could mean

It's all pretty much jibberish.

NFL performs a sting operation during the AFL Championship game which puts the integrity of the NFL into question.

Two teams are caught heating footballs during a game and the NFL just warns them.

Indy had 3 out of 4 balls underinflated, no action taken.

And there's talk of suspending Brady who the NFL just asked if Brady would come to the next SB to be honored as one of it's greatest players.

The NFL is a friggin joke.

If the NFL tries to suspend Brady like they did with Jonathan Vilma, I see that Brady's agent has already fired salvos at the NFL and I could see Brady suing the NFL like Vilma with Brady winning.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,770
126
What I find amazing is these guys keeping the old messages on their phones, one would think they would start deleting them the minute they heard the story broke.
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
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Cheating in a game should automatically end up in a loss. That would teach not to again.
 

Ban Bot

Senior member
Jun 1, 2010
796
1
76
I can see for many Pat fans this is Spygate 2.0 -- see no evil, hear no evil, know no evil. Even though the Pats got caught red handed.
The use of "Probably" is for legal issues as covered by a number of sites. That has been the "standard" the NFL set in ~ 2008 for these issues. The NFL treats these issues in the realm of "civil" load of evidence, not criminal. For competitive balance issues there only needs to good probability a misdeed was done, not an undeniable burden of proof.
Some are downplaying the texts but all of them together are pretty damning. But before pasting those some other issues:

The balls went missing after the refs authorized them. The Pats equipment guys clearly broke protocol and disspearing into a closet toilet with the balls is incriminating as they were not to be in possession of the balls in the first place.

Tom Brady lied about knowing McNally.

The Patriots, after stating they would completely cooperate, didn't. Specifically the investigators wanted repeated access to the equipment managers and Kraft deemed it "excessive."

And then there are the texts many are downplaying.

May 9, 2014, McNally and Jastremski

McNally: You working
Jastremski: Yup
McNally: Nice dude....jimmy needs some kicks....lets make a deal.....come on help the deflator
McNally: Chill buddy im just f----- with you ....im not going to espn........yet

Why oh why would they call Tom Brady the deflator?

And why, in spring 2014 (a year ago) would McNally talk about "going to ESPN"?

Yes, let's tell ESPN that Tom likes his balls at 12.5psi within the legal range... that makes a lot of sense!

Tom, the 12.5psi Deflator.

Oct. 17, 2014, following a Thursday night game between the Patriots and the New York Jets during which Tom Brady complained angrily about the inflation level of the game balls, McNally and Jastremski exchanged the following text messages:

McNally: Tom sucks...im going make that next ball a f----- balloon
Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...
Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though...
Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs f----- us...a few of then were at almost 16
Jastremski: They didnt recheck then after they put air in them
McNally: F--- tom ...16 is nothing...wait till next sunday
Jastremski: Omg! Spaz

This one is difficult to understand without more context. What appears to be said is Tom was mad because the refs overinflated the balls. The question is why did the refs feel the need to inflate the balls? If they were in range when tested there would be no need for extra air.

On Oct. 21, 2014, McNally and Jastremski exchanged the following text messages:

McNally: Make sure you blow up the ball to look like a rugby ball so tom can get used to it before sunday
Jastremski: Omg

This one is more innocuous. It could be argued, due to the over inflation the refs caused, they are gonna piss Tom off by "prepping" him with over inflated balls.

The subtext, though, is the refs feel some need to over inflate Tom's balls. And the equipment guys are keen to test PSI to fit Tom's specific requirements.

On Oct. 23, 2014, three days before a Sunday game against the Chicago Bears, Jastremski and McNally exchanged the following messages:

Jastremski: Can't wait to give you your needle this week :)
McNally: F--- tom....make sure the pump is attached to the needle.....f----- watermelons coming
Jastremski: So angry
McNally: The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating

This is pretty clear: Tom had been pissed at them. They reference the needle used for deflation--affirmed by the last comment--and McNally sarcastically comments that he wants a pump on it--i.e. he wants a needle to INFLATE not DEFLATE.

If the balls are prepped ahead of time there is no need for last second deflation.

Oct. 24, 2014, Jastremski and McNally exchanged the following messages:

Jastremski: I have a big needle for u this week
McNally: Better be surrounded by cash and newkicks....or its a rugby sunday
McNally: F--- tom
Jastremski: Maybe u will have some nice size 11s in ur locker
McNally: Tom must really be working your balls hard this week

Oh, joy, kick backs for the [deflating] needle to a guy Tom doesn't even know.

That sounds completely innocent.

On Jan. 7, 2015, eleven days before the AFC Championship Game, McNally and Jastremski discussed how McNally would have a "big autograph day" and receive items autographed by Brady the following weekend, before the playoff game against the Baltimore Ravens. McNally and Jastremski exchanged the following text messages:

McNally: Remember to put a couple sweet pig skins ready for tom to sign
Jastremski: U got it kid...big autograph day for you
McNally: Nice throw some kicks in and make it real special
Jastremski: It ur lucky. 11?
McNally: 11 or 11 and half kid

Ahem.

And in the broader context at least two teams complained about NE balls.

Nothing will ever convince Pat fans Tom or anyone associated with the Pats intentionally deflated balls outside spec less Tom or someone admits such.

No one was caught in the act of actually deflating the balls. What is known is
  • deflated balls were found,
  • the Patriots did not "fully" cooperate as promised and impeded the investigation,
  • lies were made,
  • the ball security was violated by the Pats, and
  • the equipment staff specifically discuss deflating Tom's balls
As an NFL fan I wish this case was buried and a behind the scenes/not publicized as any damage is done and uncorrectable and all they can do is fix it going forward. It doesn't help anyone at this point and it is bad for the NFL. My Hawks didn't lose to NE due to deflated balls and I think this detracts from one of the best playoffs in years (ok, and worst in some ways, but no doubt full of drama). But I have little doubt in my mind the Pats are guilty. Which is unfortunate as Tom getting suspended at the twilight years of his career after his 4 ring screws up the AFC competitive balance. Sure, AFC teams may say NE screwed it up for years by cheating but that cannot be undone. And how much did this hurt? I think it helped fumbles and aided Tom (hence why he did it and why he lobbied in 2007 to have more control over his balls). But I don't see why QBs don't have more choice on PSI anyways. They outlawed stickum but the gloves receivers use now are even better. They aren't outlawed. The only real issue is what appears to be tampering with certified balls and lying.

I don't think the Pats or Tom Brady care what anyone thinks, they have 4 recent rings and their wins and stats won't be voiced. And they will just chalk up all talk of Deflate Gate and SpyGate simple haters hating winners, even if lying and minor rule violations did occur.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Listening to some of the analyst talk about this now, some are talking about minimum 2 games as much as half a season. Not giving Brady much benefit of doubt.
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,326
68
91
These rule breaking news stories make me sick.
I don't care if they deflated the footballs.
I also don't care if they lied about it.

I just wish this story would get buried along with all the other trivial cheating scandals.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,770
126
Saints coach was suspended for an entire year based on circumstantial evidence also and he had nothing to do with the hits. Bellicheat continues to skate cause of Robert KraPTs blowjob exchanges with Goodell. He flat out doesn't cause about integrity of the league at all.

Bilicheck was not involved in this whole deal, IMO he was lied to by Brady as was Kraft. As a Patriot fan since 1967 I'd like to stick up for Brady here but I just can't. You have zero contact with Mcnally for 6 months and then your calling him every day?, texting him "are you cool"..Sorry Tom, maybe the league should have started the investigation after the SB was over and you would have then man'd-up and admit you made a mistake, now you've thrusted yourself into a huge hole and you will feel the wrath. I don't believe he needed the 1.2Lbs of air out of a ball to be the QB he is, so why risk it??..Dumb and dumber.
 

vailr

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,365
55
91
Lance Armstrong needs to apologize to Tom Brady for those under-inflated footballs.
Tom Brady would have won the Tour de France, if it wasn't for Lance Armstrong.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
To support a great charity, spent a lot of money to win the auction. A Tom Brady autographed football. Yes, it's deflated but they gave me an air pump. fwiw - it was a comedy night fundraiser.

IMG_20150507_234116.jpg
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
hey let's make up a number, with the help of a tiny sample set, that reinforces the outcome we already want

:rolleyes:

Huh? That's several years of data and it's suspicious. There was a rebuttal posted to this which raised a few decent issue with the analysis but I don't recall it dismantling the main point.