Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: z42
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
There is 1 QB that cannot be argued with. John Elway. The guy never had a great team around him (until his last 2 years) but he still managed to get them into the playoff and play in superbowls. Best QB ever.
You're kidding right? I know you are too young to have seen his career, but he was very mediocre during most of his career. He was what Brett Favre has become; a guy with a great arm who is not very accurate and makes some poor decisions. Elway had a GREAT team around him when he won his 2 superbowls. He had a pretty good team around him his whole career. Elway woudn't sniff my top 10 list. He didn't accomplish anything until the offensive line and running game became Dominant.
I saw Elway's entire career. I'd like you to give us the actual years when Elway was "mediocre"...
My recollection is he was in the top 3 rated quarterbacks virtually every year of his career.
That doesn't make hime the greatest QB ever, but it isn't "mediocre."
I'd be glad to. Here's a link to his career stats
http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=ELWAYJOH01
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/ElwaJo00.htm
As you can see, his last 6 years were very, very good. His first 10 years were not. during his first 10 seasons his "greatness" resulted in 158 TDs and 157 INTs. His highest completion % during those 10 years was 58% and his highest passer rating was 83 with an average near 75.
During the 86, 87 and 89 superbowls, he threw for a whopping 2 TDs and 6 Int's, going 46/101 passing. He did rack up 669 yards as his teams were way behind because of all the INTs.
The last 6 years he played he was spectacular. His TD to Int ratio went way, way up along with his completion % and his passer rating. I attribute a lot of that to Shanahan coming aboard and establishing the running game so that teams couldn't constantly sit in passing lanes. But Elway did play great for 6 years.
Of course, if you want to talk about winning the 2 superbowls, he played just as bad in the 2 that he won as the 3 that he lost.
I'm not saying that he was terrible, or that he was mediocre. If you look at his career as a whole, I think it's borderline HOF stuff. But to say he is even close to the greatest is just buying into the hype surrounding his last 4-6 years playing. Denver was always a very good team; most analysts in the late 80s were of the opinion that Elway was part of the reason they lost in big games and not the reason they got there. That did change in the mid 90s, and I give him a lot of credit for working hard to improve his game.