Toilet flange replacement

[Fanatical Meat]

Hey guys My toilet is wobbling and leaking a small amount. I re-mounted the toilet around 7 years ago. I remember the flange (the part that bolts into the toilet) being very corroded and I think it was below the tile that was added before we purchased the home. I know that isn’t right.
I am sort of scared to do this job but I understand how it mounts much better now.
I tried to tighten the toilet but the bolt just spun around which make me think something broke and now it needs a proper fix.
Assumptions:
House was built in 1960
Last time I had the toilet off it looked like cast iron
No PVC can be seen anywhere, waste pipe is cast iron.

I saw this which is a pvc Mount that has a rubber gasket to tighten on the pipe.
I assume this is the solution I want

Oatey 4 in. PVC Twist-N-Set Open Toilet Flange 436512 - The Home Depot

Oatey Twist-N-Set Replacement Closet Flanges are designed to replace broken cast iron closet flanges with a gasket that expands to fit inside of service weight, heavy weight and no hub pipe. The replacement

www.homedepot.com

**above implies it is for PVC piping but it is not the label plainly says "for use with cast iron pipe"

Questions:
How difficult is it to remove a corroded flange. YouTube videos make it seem like a chisel will break it up with ease. What about the waste pipe? I fear the waste pipe could break too.
YouTube videos tend to make home repairs look far easier than they are.
I am assuming it has lead bonding the flange to the pipe does this change removal?
Bonus points what type drill bit should be used for drilling a pilot hole into tile?

@Greenman you are good with this stuff, should I call in a professional or deal with it myself?

 

[Greenman]

Hey guys My toilet is wobbling and leaking a small amount. I re-mounted the toilet around 7 years ago. I remember the flange (the part that bolts into the toilet) being very corroded and I think it was below the tile that was added before we purchased the home. I know that isn’t right.
I am sort of scared to do this job but I understand how it mounts much better now.
I tried to tighten the toilet but the bolt just spun around which make me think something broke and now it needs a proper fix.
Assumptions:
House was built in 1960
Last time I had the toilet off it looked like cast iron
No PVC can be seen anywhere, waste pipe is cast iron.

I saw this which is a pvc Mount that has a rubber gasket to tighten on the pipe.
I assume this is the solution I want

Oatey 4 in. PVC Twist-N-Set Open Toilet Flange 436512 - The Home Depot

Oatey Twist-N-Set Replacement Closet Flanges are designed to replace broken cast iron closet flanges with a gasket that expands to fit inside of service weight, heavy weight and no hub pipe. The replacement

www.homedepot.com

**above implies it is for PVC piping but it is not the label plainly says "for use with cast iron pipe"

Questions:
How difficult is it to remove a corroded flange. YouTube videos make it seem like a chisel will break it up with ease. What about the waste pipe? I fear the waste pipe could break too.
YouTube videos tend to make home repairs look far easier than they are.
I am assuming it has lead bonding the flange to the pipe does this change removal?
Bonus points what type drill bit should be used for drilling a pilot hole into tile?

@Greenman you are good with this stuff, should I call in a professional or deal with it myself?

An angle grinder with a metal cut off wheel will remove the old flange. Wear an N95 and safety glasses, you don't want shit particles flying in your face. If it's old school iron, there will be a lead and oakum seal, you shouldn't get into that by cutting away the ring. If the tile is high enough, you might not even need to cut the old flange out. Get a diamond bit to drill the tile, works best with a hammer drill.
If you do have to cut off the flange, there is a chance that the pipe might drop a bit, you might have to go under the house and support it. Remember to use brass or stainless screws to hold down the new flange.
Start at 8am, and you should be good to go by lunch time.

Edit: Almost forgot. After the toilet is reset and been in service for a couple days so you know it's not leaking, be sure to seal around the base with caulking or grout.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

An angle grinder with a metal cut off wheel will remove the old flange. Wear an N95 and safety glasses, you don't want shit particles flying in your face. If it's old school iron, there will be a lead and oakum seal, you shouldn't get into that by cutting away the ring. If the tile is high enough, you might not even need to cut the old flange out. Get a diamond bit to drill the tile, works best with a hammer drill.
If you do have to cut off the flange, there is a chance that the pipe might drop a bit, you might have to go under the house and support it. Remember to use brass or stainless screws to hold down the new flange.
Start at 8am, and you should be good to go by lunch time.

Edit: Almost forgot. After the toilet is reset and been in service for a couple days so you know it's not leaking, be sure to seal around the base with caulking or grout.

Thanks man, I was wondering if I needed to remove the old flange, seems like it would be possible to add the above pvc replacement flange over the old stuff or even go a 3 inch version assuming I have a 4 inch pipe.
I’m pretty sure I remember the flange being below the tile maybe 3/8th an inch give or take.
Cutting description make me think I might be safer with a plumber but I’ll disassemble tomorrow and decide.

 

[Greenman]

You could also use one of these,

JONES STEPHENS 7 in. O.D. x 0.1 in. H Metal Closet Flange Repair Kit C85000 - The Home Depot

Jones Stephens has built its reputation over the years as a leader in the plumbing industry, providing the market with thousands of products to complete any project. If you need it, we got it. The Closet

www.homedepot.com

Then use an extra thick wax ring. It's a simpler instillation.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You could also use one of these,

JONES STEPHENS 7 in. O.D. x 0.1 in. H Metal Closet Flange Repair Kit C85000 - The Home Depot

Jones Stephens has built its reputation over the years as a leader in the plumbing industry, providing the market with thousands of products to complete any project. If you need it, we got it. The Closet

www.homedepot.com

Then use an extra thick wax ring. It's a simpler instillation.

Would that go over the existing flange?
I have two wax rings, last time I re-seated the toilet I found one wax ring on the flange and one wax ring on the toilet was perfect.

Edit: oops just saw in the description mount over existing flange

 

[herm0016]

IMHO
I seem to have good luck with the rubber rings. and i do not caulk around the base of the toilet, so that if it leaks in the future i will know. I have not had any leaks yet with the rubber rings.

it seems like we could come up with a better way to mount a toilet.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

How high should the flange/closet bolt thing be off the floor? Is more than 1/8th an inch but less than 1/4 an inch a good metric to go by?
@herm0016 I tried those before and the toilet always wobbled extremely. Probably due to the tile being too high but it was extreme, saw a plumber at Home Depot last time I mounted it and he said wax rings have worked for over 100 years, why mess with something that works.

 

[herm0016]

roughly flush with finished floor.

they work until they dry out and leak. . . horses worked for 100s of years, why mess with something that works. . .

if it was wobbling, the ring was not compressed enough, or the flange was too high. if the flange is roughly level with the finished floor they work.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Land Beaver delay, this is one angry mofo

 

[herm0016]

haha. woodchuck? its got a reason to be angry i think

 

[Fanatical Meat]

haha. woodchuck? its got a reason to be angry i think

Has the flat tail, pretty sure it is an unusually big ground hog but I am not a naturalist.
That dude was angry, hissed at me the whole time we even had a battle of dominance before I picked up the cage. Starring match was a draw but he stopped hissing.
Just let him out 4-5 miles straight line from home. Place abuts a park & wildlife preserve. Only 2 houses in the area and they are about 1000 feet away.
I like this drop off spot because it is far enough from home and not a death sentence for the animal, not many residences nearby and for them to return they’d need to travel and cross one major highway, one major two lane road, one stream and one good sized lake or cross the bridges.

Edit: oops groundhog & woodchuck are the same beastie.

 

[Greenman]

IMHO
I seem to have good luck with the rubber rings. and i do not caulk around the base of the toilet, so that if it leaks in the future i will know. I have not had any leaks yet with the rubber rings.

it seems like we could come up with a better way to mount a toilet.

The problem with not caulking the toilet base is water and sometimes piss gets under the edge and all sorts of shit starts growing. It's required by code, and a good idea overall.

 

[Greenman]

How high should the flange/closet bolt thing be off the floor? Is more than 1/8th an inch but less than 1/4 an inch a good metric to go by?
@herm0016 I tried those before and the toilet always wobbled extremely. Probably due to the tile being too high but it was extreme, saw a plumber at Home Depot last time I mounted it and he said wax rings have worked for over 100 years, why mess with something that works.

The seal has nothing to do with the toilet wobbling, unless the flange is set to high. I've never used the rubber gaskets for the same reason the plumber gave you, wax works. It's a dependable, long term seal. The only time I've seen one fail is when the waste pipe wasn't properly anchored and dropped half an inch.

 

[Thump553]

Would that go over the existing flange?
I have two wax rings, last time I re-seated the toilet I found one wax ring on the flange and one wax ring on the toilet was perfect.

Edit: oops just saw in the description mount over existing flange

I had the exact same problem a few years ago. I tried several things but this sort of the thing was the successful solution.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I had the exact same problem a few years ago. I tried several things but this sort of the thing was the successful solution.

Excellent tell me more
Just mount it over what you had?

Dumb question, the wax ring goes on the old flange?

I ask because I suspect I simply need a more rigid way to bolt the toilet.
I’m not looking for a permanent fix a 10 year fix would be good enough. Ideally we want a new tub some day and I am sure that will involve a new floor.

@Greenman what sort of screw should I use? I assume around 1” long but what is a good corrosion resistant screw?

 

[Greenman]

Excellent tell me more
Just mount it over what you had?

Dumb question, the wax ring goes on the old flange?

I ask because I suspect I simply need a more rigid way to bolt the toilet.
I’m not looking for a permanent fix a 10 year fix would be good enough. Ideally we want a new tub some day and I am sure that will involve a new floor.

@Greenman what sort of screw should I use? I assume around 1” long but what is a good corrosion resistant screw?

Brass or stainless.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Brass or stainless.

Ah
drill full width of the screw thru the tile then let the brass go into the floor to anchor?

 

[Greenman]

Ah
drill full width of the screw thru the tile then let the brass go into the floor to anchor?

That's how you do it.
Plant the new flange, make sure it's screwed down tight, use a wax ring with plastic extension on it, not the straight wax type, then set your toilet.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

That's how you do it.
Plant the new flange, make sure it's screwed down tight, use a wax ring with plastic extension on it, not the straight wax type, then set your toilet.

Thanks Im going on another homedepot run, I have regular wax rings. I had trouble in the past with wax rings that had the plastic rings. Toilet didn’t seat right but I sort of get it. The toilet will be “higher” with the repair kit you posted earlier and that will allow it to fit.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You could also use one of these,

JONES STEPHENS 7 in. O.D. x 0.1 in. H Metal Closet Flange Repair Kit C85000 - The Home Depot

Jones Stephens has built its reputation over the years as a leader in the plumbing industry, providing the market with thousands of products to complete any project. If you need it, we got it. The Closet

www.homedepot.com

Then use an extra thick wax ring. It's a simpler instillation.

Damn it, Home Depot doesn’t have that or changed vendors. Same item number and part number but different manufacturer and slightly different part.

Here’s what I got

 

[Greenman]

Looks like it will work.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Looks like it will work.

Yeah good news it’s US made, bad news feels sort of flimsy but I tend to over think things. Crapper doesn't need to be super tight just tight enough.

 

[NutBucket]

Right, you don't want to crank down on those bolts. Also make sure the toilet sits nicely in the floor and doesn't rock. Had that problem before and it broke the flange. Had to shim the toilet with some plastic chopsticks. Don't judge me, it's what I had handy that wouldn't rot! I've heard plumbers will use coins.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I got it done during the week and it is good enough for now but another failure will be a plumber.
Flange is too high not too low. Bathroom likely had 1960 tile removed and replaced with 2008 thinner tile is my guess.
Floor is not level where the toilet sits either, never noticed it because you can’t walk there. One side of the flange is about 1/4” from the floor the other side is a little less than 1/2 and inch (maybe .4)
I shimmed the low side a lot and toilet is pretty level now but I don’t like the look with the shims and there is no hope of remedying with caulk just too much of a gap.
Sub floor may have rot or it may not I am not sure, when looking up from the basement the wood absolutely has gotten wet at some time but it isn’t water stained that much.

Gap:


The flange appears weird looks like one solid piece with the pipe. I think it is bolted to the floor but I could only find two wholes that I assume have bolts buried under wax. There didn’t appear to be a seam anywhere. Regardless the flange wasn’t in that bad shape, I put one of those brace things on the side that became loose.

Pretty level now not perfect but damn close
*I have no idea how so much hair got one this from sitting on its side*


Example of how much I had to shim, the gap bothers me. I wish there was a toilet skirt I could put around it without the skirt collecting pee



Bolts are hand tight plus approximately a 3/4 turn.

Everything is either brass or stainless (the brace thing), I used one standard wax ring. Not extra thick, no reinforcement I was thinking I want to minimize the space between the toilet and the floor.

 

[sdifox]

Err you need to add more support for that seat. Most of the weight is going to the front.