To save Healthcare, let the sickest 20% die

[TechAZ]

There is lots of factors but R&D is not one of them. Plenty of German/English/French medical device and pharmaceutical companies out there at forefront.

You'll never get costs under control with multi layer system we have with billers, insurance companies, lawyers and skimming off the care.

You'll never get costs under control with providers banking millions and CEOs hundreds of millions a year. All the other viable systems cap such things. Granted a orthopedic in uk is not poor but he.ll make $200,000 instead of $2,000,000 like here.

Ortho docs make 2mill here? lol?

This healthcare problem is very complex. Of course, everything is marked up, but the costs TO the hospital from suppliers is crazy. Simple instruments and supplies are out of control cost-wise, much more for equipment. There's also the insurance end, and gov't reimbursement that is not rising with the care that hospitals provide.

 

[Brigandier]

80/20 rule of thumb:
20% of patients use 80% of health care resources

And we should probably just kill anyone with a pre-existing condition, those chumps cost money too.

 

[Darwin333]

On the bright side, getting rid of the sickest 20% would mean that we get rid of a significant portion of the tea party on medicare.

So its ok in your book to "get rid" of people that you disagree with politically?

 

[Venix]

It just blows my mind that a thief such as yourself keeps talking about 'stealing'.

I know that Hapc is one of the dumbest people on this forum, a loser who lives with mommy and hasn't worked a day in his life, but what's the story behind him being a thief?

 

[Rainsford]

Ortho docs make 2mill here? lol?

This healthcare problem is very complex. Of course, everything is marked up, but the costs TO the hospital from suppliers is crazy. Simple instruments and supplies are out of control cost-wise, much more for equipment. There's also the insurance end, and gov't reimbursement that is not rising with the care that hospitals provide.

The real beneficiaries of the health care industry in this country are ironically NOT the doctors who treat patients, or the researchers and scientists who develop new drugs and treatments. And it's certainly not the patients themselves. It's enormous medical companies and insurance companies who manage to keep the lion's share of the profits in return for providing somewhat questionable value to the market.

I laugh every time I hear opposition to government health care phrased in terms of keeping medical decisions between families and doctors, as if that's how the system works now.

 

[RightIsWrong]

So, is this 80/20 rule a permanent rule because if it is, you will effectively kill off the entire population of the country because that 20% will always include someone and once they are in it....they are no longer allowed to live by your logic.

 

[her209]

I know that Hapc is one of the dumbest people on this forum, a loser who lives with mommy and hasn't worked a day in his life, but what's the story behind him being a thief?

Basically:

1. Ate his roommate's ice cream without permission
2. Could find a replacement at the local store
3. Was suggested to him to buy "regular" ice cream and put it in the old empty container
4. Someone else suggested just to eat everything else of his roommate's, then lying to him that the fridge lost power and everything was thrown out
5. Ended up doing doing number 3.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2097982

 

[Red Dawn]

Basically:

1. Ate his roommate's ice cream without permission
2. Could find a replacement at the local store
3. Was suggested to him to buy "regular" ice cream and put it in the old empty container
4. Someone else suggested just to eat everything else of his roommate's, then lying to him that the fridge lost power and everything was thrown out
5. Ended up doing doing number 3.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2097982

Lol, I dislike the little self entitled bastard as much as the next person but eating a roommates Ice Cream and replacing it really doesn't amount to much in terms of thievery.

 

[Phokus]

Lol, I dislike the little self entitled bastard as much as the next person but eating a roommates Ice Cream and replacing it really doesn't amount to much in terms of thievery.

His roommate bought some organic brand of ice cream and he replaced it with a cheap shitty version and used fucking bleach to wash out the container. Yes, that's stealing in my book. He went out of his way to do something even more fucked up rather than just admitting it to his roommate and giving him his money back.

Best summary of what HACP did:

It's a very typical ATOT thread.

1. OP says BLANK happened, asks advice
2. Other posters provide plenty of good options and a few joke answers
3. OP either ignores them completely or picks one of the joke answers
4. Problem goes from bad to worse

 

[Zebo]

Lol, I dislike the little self entitled bastard as much as the next person but eating a roommates Ice Cream and replacing it really doesn't amount to much in terms of thievery.

Yeah it's not like he took a man's girlfriend or something or heaven forbid drank a man's beer! That would be war back when I had roommates.

 

[Zebo]

His roommate bought some organic brand of ice cream and he replaced it with a cheap shitty version and used fucking bleach to wash out the container. Yes, that's stealing in my book. He went out of his way to do something even more fucked up rather than just admitting it to his roommate and giving him his money back.

LOL you're right that's just sad. What a weasel.

I hadn't heard this story just references to it in various threads. LOL.

 

[Phokus]

LOL you're right that's just sad. What a weasel.

I hadn't heard this story just references to it in various threads. LOL.

I mean, who the fuck uses bleach in that situation.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

There is lots of factors but R&D is not one of them. Plenty of German/English/French medical device and pharmaceutical companies out there at forefront.

You'll never get costs under control with multi layer system we have with billers, insurance companies, lawyers and skimming off the care.

You'll never get costs under control with providers banking millions and CEOs hundreds of millions a year. All the other viable systems cap such things. Granted a orthopedic in uk is not poor but he.ll make $200,000 instead of $2,000,000 like here.

I know of no German CEOs like pfizers making 120 million a year either.

Since we grant them monopoly status which we do with patents and medical licensing they can charge whatever they want so long as you want to live. That needs to change one way or the other. You can't have free market with government created and enforced monopolies. You either have to control them to control costs or do away with system entirely.

However, a care provider in the UK likely doesn't have nearly the chance of getting a frivolous lawsuit smacked in his face.

Excerpt:

So are frivolous lawsuits a rarity? No, they happen all the time. In fact, a Harvard study concluded that 80% of malpractice lawsuits are frivolous. Thus, frivolous malpractice lawsuits are not an occasional imperfection in the legal system; they are its bread and butter. I won't claim that doctors do not make mistakes. I've made some, and I've seen enough ones made by others to make me realize that medical mistakes are very common. Fortunately, most of these mistakes do not cause appreciable harm. Human biology is more resilient and robust than you may imagine.

Do you realise how much insurance costs for these doctors in the US? It's alot.

Excerpt:

Malpractice insurance premiums vary widely from state to state. Florida is the highest-premium state, with an average 2004 premium of more than $195,000...

If we go by the salary of your hypothetical UK doctor, he'd literally be paying to practice.

As said above, the health care system is *very* complex, and requires big changes in all areas, not just the profits of a few pharma CEOs. Yes they're ludicrous and need to be changed, but there's bigger things taking larger chunks of the costs and that *includes* the people complaining.

 

[Phokus]

So its ok in your book to "get rid" of people that you disagree with politically?

When those same people:

1) Scream about the evils of "BIG GUBMINT"

2) Scream that nobody better touch THEIR government benefits

3) And want to deny those same benefits to the rest of the population? Why should THEY get government health insurance but the rest of us get shit?

Under those circumstances, yes FUCK them. In fact, take away their medicare and lets watch them crawl back like leeches begging for it back.

 

[Zebo]

Agree I brought up all the middle men skimmers and bottom feeders other countries don't have. But they also cap & control costs on their monopolies they created as well.

Basically to control costs they control costs. We don't.

 

[boomerang]

When those same people:

1) Scream about the evils of "BIG GUBMINT"

2) Scream that nobody better touch THEIR government benefits

3) And want to deny those same benefits to the rest of the population? Why should THEY get government health insurance but the rest of us get shit?

Under those circumstances, yes FUCK them. In fact, take away their medicare and lets watch them crawl back like leeches begging for it back.

You sound like a spoiled child.

 

[JohnnyGage]

Ortho docs make 2mill here? lol?

This healthcare problem is very complex. Of course, everything is marked up, but the costs TO the hospital from suppliers is crazy. Simple instruments and supplies are out of control cost-wise, much more for equipment. There's also the insurance end, and gov't reimbursement that is not rising with the care that hospitals provide.

Yeah, 2 mil. not even close. Maybe after years and they own their own practice with lots of other docs, they MIGHT see that after they sell the practice and retire.

 

[theeedude]

Good to see brainstorming on the Republican "replace" plan

 

[Phokus]

You sound like a spoiled child.

It amazes me that conservatives don't find it offensive that this privileged group of assholes vigorously defend their government cheese, but want to make sure that nobody else gets a piece.

 

[dawp]

However, a care provider in the UK likely doesn't have nearly the chance of getting a frivolous lawsuit smacked in his face.

Excerpt:



Do you realise how much insurance costs for these doctors in the US? It's alot.

Excerpt:



If we go by the salary of your hypothetical UK doctor, he'd literally be paying to practice.

As said above, the health care system is *very* complex, and requires big changes in all areas, not just the profits of a few pharma CEOs. Yes they're ludicrous and need to be changed, but there's bigger things taking larger chunks of the costs and that *includes* the people complaining.

In Texas the awards are capped at $250,000 like all good republicans want and the cost in TX are still among the highest in the country. And guess what, all the bad doctors are going to texas because of lower malpractice rates and they can get insurance again. Tort reform is a red herring. It does nothing but protect incompetent doctors.

 

[alkemyst]

Sadly this healthcare reform is mostly fed by the underemployed and not truly needy.

We have always had 'free' healthcare for our poor over most of our lives.

People are seeing COBRA rates and freaking out.

People are also excluded from the existing free care and bitching (felons, etc).

I have bought my own health insurance since I was independent. It sucked as it was almost as much as my car payment but I did it.

That was almost 20 years ago at 19.

Today everyone wants something for nothing.

 

[shira]

How about this? If you can't afford it, you can't have it.

Ah, so you're for death panels.

 

[shira]

How about this? If you can't afford it, you can't have it.

Great solution: The poor black woman can't have an abortion because she can't afford one, so she's forced to give birth. But then the baby will die of some minor ailment because the woman can't afford health care.

You are a brilliant theoretician, and I'm sure the pro-life crowd will be overjoyed.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Or even worse, the child lives to grow up into a perfectly healthy, strong, resentful, discontented, angry soon-to-be criminal.

 

[shira]

What's also interesting is that not only does the US pump more money into medicinal research than any other country, but we also spend the most. I see it almost like the textbook market. Charge the US college student to hell and back for a basic text book and offer the same book over int he asian and indian markets for a fraction of the price.

I wonder how well those other 30 systems would work if everything were forced to be equal. To ensure that the same amount of development goes into biomedical research today, and to offset the US putting less into research and paying less for drugs. If the US got the opportunity to put out the same amount of money per capita that other countries do, and all the other countries had to pick up that remaining balance, how well would those other, more socialised systems work?

I think we do indeed practice socialised medicine, only its done on a global scale rather than a local scale. Only recently has big pharma started offering their own socialised system, allowing some to pay less and allowing those with insurance and big bank accounts to foot the offset.

I'm far from a supporter of big pharma. I dislike how orphan drugs exist and how much money is sunk into advertising and making 1,000 different drugs that are all the same thing, each heavily marketed.

That said, I *also* understand that the world view wouldn't be so cheery, if it wasn't for the US bankrolling most of it.

Most physicians in the U.S. are wealthy. Most physicians in other first-world countries are just middle class. The difference is that health care in the U.S. is a for-profit industry, whereas in most other places it's not. That difference is a major contributor to why we spend so much more per-capita for health care than any other country.

But the right tells us that free markets are always a good thing.