To create an mATX HTPC or go Acer Revo

[Scouzer]

I have some old parts laying around and I'm thinking about finally turning it into an HTPC. I already have an HTPC but it's been pissing me off lately so I think it's time to upgrade.

I can't really decide if I want to go the Acer Revo versus mATX route either. mATX sure is huge still for sitting in an entertainment unit. Thoughts?

Anyway, if I go the fullsize HTPC route:

Existing parts laying around:

Athlon X2 3800+
Asus M2N-E
1GB DDR2
Radeon 4350 Passively Cooled (Hope this can power full Blu-Ray playback...)

New Parts I'd buy:

Sparkle Power SPI 350W ATX12V 2.0 24/20PINS Power Supply W/ 120MM Ball Bearing Fan
Liteon IHOS104 4X BLU-RAY Reader BD-ROM Drive SATA Black OEM
Kingston SSDNow V Series 30GB 2.5IN SATA Solid State Disk Flash Drive
Nmedia HTPC-1000B Desktop Media Centre Case mATX Black 1X5.25 4X3.5INT Card Reader No PS

Cost: $272 Canadian

Before you guys go bananas about the SSD, I don't store anything on my HTPC. I stream it all from my laptop. Storage space isn't an issue.

 

[Zorba]

That Acer looks really cool, I might have to get one of those to use as a front end in another room. I personally love my "full size" HTPC, but I think we are using them for different tasks.

Also, that case you linked to looks massive. I personally like this one a lot: Case

 

[Zaap]

Can the Revo handle BD playback? (I'm assuming you'd need to use a USB-external BD drive for actual discs?)

Otherwise the 4350 should handle BD fine.

 

[Zaap]

Also, that case you linked to looks massive. I personally like this one a lot: Case

If his 4350 card isn't half-height capable, then he would have to use a full-height case. If so, and if it's going to be visible, may as well go with one that looks good.

Also, some of the half-height cases have leafblowers for PSUs. There's a lot to be said for a quiet full-sized PSU with an HTPC.

 

[Scouzer]

My 4350 is a half height card, but I lost the half height bracket

 

[poofyhairguy]

I upgraded recently from pretty much exactly what you have lying around on my HTPC, and I must say that it did a pretty good job for me (little different GPU as I am an NVIDIA nut).

Only thing I didn't like was the size, so when I went to replace it (I gave it away) I went Mini ITX+ION...

 

[Scouzer]

Thanks for the replies guys. I kind of shifted gears on this and I don't want to reuse my old parts. Instead I was looking at this:

Foxcon R10-G3
2GB DDR2 Stick
Celeron E3300 (I don't even know 100% if this would work with the R10)
Liteon Blu-Ray

Cost: $285

I'd reuse some junky HDD I have laying around still.

Since I lost my 4350's low profile bracket, what happens if I just remove the full size bracket? I mean it'd be ugly as hell... but would it still all work fine?

 

[Aikouka]

The brackets are used to hold the card in place. I've removed the brackets off PCI cards before, but I really don't recommend it as those cards only ever gave problems due to not seating very well.

 

[Scouzer]

The brackets are used to hold the card in place. I've removed the brackets off PCI cards before, but I really don't recommend it as those cards only ever gave problems due to not seating very well.

Crappy.

This is driving me nuts. I like the Foxcon case I showed earlier, but I'm not convinced it'll fit a fullsize Blu-Ray player, a stock HSF, and a half height video card. There's not enough pictures/reviews to really know.

So I've spent hours combing through other HTPC cases, they almost all suck. I really like the Silverstone GD05B but it seems a stock HSF will get in the way of an optical drive--UGH!

I am beyond frustrated with this right now. I can't find a decent case that can hold all my stuff. The Nmedia case I linked earlier actually ended up being too big for my entertainment unit.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Just so you know and you don't waste a bunch of your time: yes an ION setup can playback Blu Ray level content.

I tried about two months ago when I shifted HTPCs to make a Mini ITX build based on 775 CPUs (much like you are doing, but I used a SSD from the start to contain heat) and in my opinion 775 CPUs and the Mini ITX form factor don't mix well- even the 45nm parts put off too much heat.

I quickly learned if you are going Mini ITX and you are not prepared to redesign cases with new fans and cooling, then you have two choices: i3 or ION.

I couldn't afford i3 so I went dual core ION. The ION plays back my Avatar Blu Ray rip perfectly, which is maybe one of the meanest x264 files on the planet.

There is only two things I can't do with my ION setup: transcode media (like say streaming to a PS3/iPhone) and playback 1080p Flash (but 720p Flash works great). Since I was using my box to just playback content I have hosted on a networked media server and nothing else, ION worked perfectly for me even though I doubted it grealty at first. If you need to do those two tasks that an ION can't do then I suggest ponying up for a i3.

Trying to mix those form factors with 775 parts is a nightmare. If you insist on trying though you will need one of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835220034

 

[Scouzer]

Thanks for the great replies poofy. I don't really understand these days what parts are cooler than others.

Which case did you end up using? I'm really struggling because it seems the most common problem is the CPU fan can't fit under the PSU in most of these tiny cases. However, there's no way to know the dimensions on a stock CPU fan. Very frustrating.

My problems are further hampered because a standard Blu-Ray player is 185mm long--as opposed to a DVD player which is 170mm. That 15mm makes all the difference in a lot of these cases.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Thanks for the great replies poofy. I don't really understand these days what parts are cooler than others.

Which case did you end up using? I'm really struggling because it seems the most common problem is the CPU fan can't fit under the PSU in most of these tiny cases. However, there's no way to know the dimensions on a stock CPU fan. Very frustrating.

My problems are further hampered because a standard Blu-Ray player is 185mm long--as opposed to a DVD player which is 170mm. That 15mm makes all the difference in a lot of these cases.

Here is my entire build, but it doesn't help you unless you plan to get an expensive 2.5 inch Blu Ray drive:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2071013

Personally I just rip my Blu Rays onto my computer, and stream those via my network to the box described above. But part of the reason for doing that is that I wanted appliance-like-simplicity from my mediabox (for the sake of my fiance), which required Linux, which requires I pre-rip my Blu Rays a lot of the time. I hate optical disks anyway (me Wii is also HD based) so it works for me.

For you I honestly recommend that if you are wanting to play Blu Rays on the HTPC you might want a MicroATX build. Then you can use a 775 CPU without any problems and all your parts will fit. My all-time-favorite (that might fit your media center based on height) is this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-186-_-Product

It is on sale right now. Combine it with a mobo like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500019

Add some RAM and a cheap CPU and you got a Blu Ray HTPC in no time.

 

[Scouzer]

Your build looks great. I love that case you found.

That Lian-Li is a wicked nice looking case. Unfortunately it's definitely out of my price range. I guess I've kind of narrowed it down now to two possible builds:

Apex MI-008 MINI-ITX Case
Intel DG41MJ
Celeron E3300
1GB DDR2 (Laying around)
300GB HDD (Laying around)
Radeon 4350 (Laying around)
Liteon IHOS104 4X BLU-RAY Reader

Problem... the Blu-Ray is either not going to fit or *barely* going to fit:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article905-page4.html

That's what happened when a reviewer used a 166 mm drive. The Blu-Ray drive is 184mm... it'd be one hell of a tight fit if it'd work. Maybe if I got a right angle molex adapter?

Furthermore I'm at the mercy of Intel whether I get one of the new low profile HSF--the fullsize ones won't fit.

So if I go mATX I'd get the same build except I'd get:

Gigabyte GA-G31M-ES2L
Silverstone GD05B

Which would cost me about $15 more. No big deal there.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Even though I really want to see another person flesh out a Apex MI-008 (as I am thinking of making a hackintosh Mac Mini out of one), I must say that I have seen a GD05B in person and it looks fantastic as well.

The upsides to the mATX build for the parts you have expressed is that it will be quieter (almost all 120mm fans can be used plus there is more airflow space), the Blu Ray drive will certainly fit, and the GPU upgrade will go smoothly.

The upside to the Apex MI-008 is that the width will be about half.

One thing I must tell warn you though- I have heard putting a external GPU in a MI-008 blocks airflow (when heat is already an issue with a 775 CPU):

http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=525934&postcount=27

So whatever you do, make sure if you go the Mini-ITX route you buy from a place with a decent return policy!

 

[simonizor]

If you don't store any files on it and you're looking for a blu ray player, why not get a PS3? It's probably cheaper than any HTPC you can build, and with a program called PS3 Media Server, you can stream pretty much any known media file type to it. I stream 1080p .mkv blu ray rips to mine all the time, and it looks and works great.

With the PS3, you have pretty much all of the functions of an HTPC, and you can play games on it if you desire to. If you ever felt like storing your movies on it, you could upgrade the hard drive to something more suitable. If you have a compatible TV, you can enable HDMI control in the settings, which allows you to control your PS3 with your TV's remote, and the PS3 will turn the TV on if you turn it on and turn off with the TV when you turn it off (if you're not in game or in a movie, of course). There are pretty much no limitations that I can think of that would make the PS3 a poor choice.

I bought my PS3 with the intention of replacing my stolen 360 as my main source of gaming entertainment, but I've shifted back to PC gaming lately, and my PS3 has taken the unexpected role of HTPC. It does the job extremely well.

 

[Scouzer]

Even though I really want to see another person flesh out a Apex MI-008 (as I am thinking of making a hackintosh Mac Mini out of one), I must say that I have seen a GD05B in person and it looks fantastic as well.

The upsides to the mATX build for the parts you have expressed is that it will be quieter (almost all 120mm fans can be used plus there is more airflow space), the Blu Ray drive will certainly fit, and the GPU upgrade will go smoothly.

The upside to the Apex MI-008 is that the width will be about half.

One thing I must tell warn you though- I have heard putting a external GPU in a MI-008 blocks airflow (when heat is already an issue with a 775 CPU):

http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=525934&postcount=27

So whatever you do, make sure if you go the Mini-ITX route you buy from a place with a decent return policy!

Argh! I swear these damn mini PCs are just not made to be home made! Prebuilt or die!

Lol, what a headache. I wouldn't have guessed a piddly 4350 (or 9500) in his case would be a problem. I guess it is. It's the straw that broke the camel's back!

As far as a PS3, nah. I occasionally surf the net on my HTPC, watch Youtube, and most importantly I watch a lot of Slingbox. I actually don't have cable TV, I bought a Slingbox to put at my parent's house to steal their cable. haha. saves me $60/mo.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I occasionally surf the net on my HTPC, watch Youtube, and most importantly I watch a lot of Slingbox. I actually don't have cable TV, I bought a Slingbox to put at my parent's house to steal their cable. haha. saves me $60/mo.

Ok, didn't know that.

If you plan on dealing with the monstrosity called the Slingbox program on your HTPC, go mATX and throw in the Q6600. That program (well just the Windows version, the OSX version is ok) eats my laptop for lunch every time I use it! ION won't cut it for that....

 

[Scouzer]

Ok, didn't know that.

If you plan on dealing with the monstrosity called the Slingbox program on your HTPC, go mATX and throw in the Q6600. That program (well just the Windows version, the OSX version is ok) eats my laptop for lunch every time I use it! ION won't cut it for that....

Well it's not a Slingbox HD, just Slingbox Tuner. I only watch 640x240 resolution due to bandwidth limitations.

Plus they've abandoned development on Slingplayer in favour of the web based version

 

[Scouzer]

Well, I pulled the trigger:

Silverstone GD05B
Gigabyte GA-G31M-ES2L
Celeron E3300
Liteon IHOS104 4X BLU-RAY Reader
1GB DDR2 (Laying around)
300GB HDD (Laying around)
Radeon 4350 (Laying around)

I'm pretty damn disappointed I didn't get a mini ITX setup, but the risks were too great. There's nowhere to buy this stuff locally so if I had to return anything it'd be shipping + 15% restocking fee. Not worth it in my mind.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Well, I pulled the trigger:

Silverstone GD05B
Gigabyte GA-G31M-ES2L
Celeron E3300
Liteon IHOS104 4X BLU-RAY Reader
1GB DDR2 (Laying around)
300GB HDD (Laying around)
Radeon 4350 (Laying around)

I'm pretty damn disappointed I didn't get a mini ITX setup, but the risks were too great. There's nowhere to buy this stuff locally so if I had to return anything it'd be shipping + 15% restocking fee. Not worth it in my mind.

Seems like an exciting build. That really is a cool case- if it can take a Blu Ray drive then maybe I could use it to finally build my dad a HTPC he won't turn his nose up at.

I am interested to know:

- Your thoughts on that mobo (I need a new mATX mobo for hackintosh build, and gigabyte is my favorite brand) will be much appreciate by me.

-If 1GB of RAM is enough for Blu Ray playback.

-Pictures of what it will look like.


Keep me posted!

 

[Zorba]

If so, and if it's going to be visible, may as well go with one that looks good.

Also, some of the half-height cases have leafblowers for PSUs. There's a lot to be said for a quiet full-sized PSU with an HTPC.

That case actually has the most quite PSU I have ever heard. You really can't hear it at all.

My personal preference is a very small case, but I can see why some people would like the bigger cases that look more like other components. I linked to the small case since the OP mentioned an HTPC taking up a lot of room.

My 4350 is a half height card, but I lost the half height bracket

I am using the case I linked in the first reply. I made half height brackets using the blanks that came with the case, it actually was pretty easy - if you have a drill.

 

[zylander]

My current HTPC uses that nMedia case you originally posted. I like the case a lot but it is pretty big. My HTPC uses an Intel BOXG45ID motherboard with on board HDMI which plays BD discs and BD rips with no problems, so no need for a PCI video card. Lately I have not been happy dealing with playing BD discs on my HTPC and Im thinking of building an mITX HTPC to stream all my stored media to and then just buy a stand alone BD player. Another thing that looks REALLY interesting is the new Zotac ZBOX. Im waiting to see some reviews on it and how well it handles BD rip playback.

 

[yuppiejr]

I think the ION + Atom platform is pretty killer, it's hard to beat the size + features of the Revo at $199 and it will do Blu-Ray/HD all day long as long as you are feeding it properly encoded media from an external source. I gather that realtime encode and decoding certain codecs/container formats are not it's forte' but assuming most people have a separate more powerful PC or media server to handle this work it can be dealt with easily enough.

On the DIY mATX front I recently found great fairly affordable HTPC desktop case (IF you can accomodate the depth) in this APEX model: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811154087

... you can also get it at Micro Center for $50 as the "Powerspec DM-387". It will accomodate a full size 5 1/4" optical drive, micro ATX mainboard with stock cooler and half height PCI-e graphics card. The included 80mm fan is junk, you will want to replace it with something quieter.. but all in I figure you're looking at $60 for a nice, quiet HTPC case with a PSU that should run pretty much anything that fill fit in the chasis.

This is the build I went with in order to tide me over until I swap with one of the new ION/Atom builds coming out later in the year (this machine will end up resold for desktop duties):

APEX / Powerspec mATX Desktop HTPC case : $50
Panasonic Panaflo 80mm quiet fan w/ 4 pin adapter (purchased 2, need 1) : $12
ATI Radeon 4350 card w/ HCMI : $35
AMD x2 250 CPU + Biostar mATX mainboard : $65

I had RAM, hard drive and optical drives to spare so they all went in at no additional cost...

 

[Scouzer]

Ugh, my Silverstone case is on back order. Of course the one part that doesn't have any reasonable substitutes is the one on back order. Maybe I'll downgrade GD04B... argh

NCIX doesn't even have an ETA for me

 

[Fallen Kell]

Sorry to hear that...