To: Atheists/Agnostics etc.

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Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
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But your hard work and determination leads to what end ? Is what I am asking. Do you want to leave a legacy to mankind ? What is 'success' in your words ?

I want to go a little deeper than just saying I want to be successful. What does being successful or a failure or a good or bad person matter at all if there is nothing after this.

And I assure you, that my belief in God has not made me less hard working or determined, like yourself.

Personal satisfaction. The joy of helping others. Being with friends. Raising wonderful successful children (2 of whom believe in God, one who does not).

I don't need to follow some goals laid out by God or a book. I'm happy, I try to make others happy around me, and I try to help my children become contributing members of society who make the world better.

That's more than enough for me. God's never done anything for me, and I've never done anything for him. I rather like it that way.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
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Because if the stance you're taking is that if I cannot prove something to be true if I make a claim, therefor it is false, it is an arrogant stance. As in you'll take that stance whether it is true or not.

That is how you're coming across.

Most scientists would tell you that claiming something is true with absolutely no way to prove or verify it is ignorance. Take that as you will.

If you want to believe, believe. If you don't, don't. These discussions are pointless.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
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Most scientists would tell you that claiming something is true with absolutely no way to prove or verify it is ignorance. Take that as you will.

If you want to believe, believe. If you don't, don't. These discussions are pointless.

I suppose scientists saying something holds some sort of significant weight?

I agree with your 2nd point.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
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If there is no God, if there is nothing after death, if there is no right/wrong determined by a higher power etc. Then, to be blunt, what keeps you from ending it all right now ?

I would ask if you have Heaven to look forward to and this Earth is nothing to live for, why not end it all?

Life is for the living, it is not healthy to live for a pretend world after death.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
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The reason why some believers do "believe" is because of evidence. Using your example about Jesus, did you know that the book of Genesis directly prophesied about him? Also, Isaiah 53?

Well, it did.. and when the Gospel was written (a few thousand years after Genesis), it was recorded that he actually did walk the earth. The Bible is largely a prophetic book -- no man can prophecy something thousands of years before it happens, and then it actually happens as described.

If that was the only thing that Bible was concerned with and that came to be, then why would you doubt the existence of God?

This is why believers don't need a physical manifestation of God to believe he exist - if they find evidence that what they read has and will come true (because it has before), then it leaves very little room for doubt.

If I had parents that NEVER lead me wrong, for instance, why would I doubt their leadership? I have no reason to. Even if they asked me to do something I didn't understand, I still wouldn't have a valid reason to doubt them.
Biblical prophecies that came true, eh? Such as?
Is the level of accuracy better than you might get with random guessing? Are we looking at things that require some metal stretching exercises or creative interpretation, or just really vague things that are on the level of a newspaper horoscope?
"Something bad will happen today, and you might communicate information to another person."
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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Biblical prophecies that came true, eh? Such as?
Is the level of accuracy better than you might get with random guessing? Are we looking at things that require some metal stretching exercises or creative interpretation, or just really vague things that are on the level of a newspaper horoscope?
"Something bad will happen today, and you might communicate information to another person."

The one you just quoted.

Believe what you will, discredit it all you want. I really don't care. I find it hard pressed for a man to "guess" at the details of a person's life hundreds of years before that person was even born, and that person lives the life and does the things that person predicted.

What are the odds of him getting that right by guessing?

No horoscope comes even close. Go and ask a "horoscope reader" the exact details of a day of your life 10 years from now and see how far you get.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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I suppose scientists saying something holds some sort of significant weight?

It hold weight because it is based on reason and logic and critical thinking. All things the human brain is capable of doing. Albeit better for some than others :)
 
Nov 29, 2006
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The one you just quoted.

Believe what you will, discredit it all you want. I really don't care. I find it hard pressed for a man to "guess" at the details of a person's life hundreds of years before that person was even born, and that person lives the life and does the things that person predicted.

What are the odds of him getting that right by guessing?

No horoscope comes even close. Go and ask a "horoscope reader" the exact details of a day of your life 10 years from now and see how far you get.

They were talking about Horus :p
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
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The one you just quoted.

Believe what you will, discredit it all you want. I really don't care. I find it hard pressed for a man to "guess" at the details of a person's life hundreds of years before that person was even born, and that person lives the life and does the things that person predicted.

What are the odds of him getting that right by guessing?

If you have someone willing to work the story a little after the fact? Extremely high, almost certain.
 

reallyscrued

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2004
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14 pages late to the party.


Asterisk man, if you can't understand how the absence of a belief in the afterlife makes life that much more precious, you will gain nothing from this thread.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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If you have someone willing to work the story a little after the fact? Extremely high, almost certain.


Ahahaha I knew this was coming!

Boy oh boy, you're reaching... big time. So you mean that those who killed Jesus read that part in Isaiah, pretended to hate him, and killed him? All those people played along?

LOL!
 
Nov 29, 2006
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Ahahaha I knew this was coming!

Boy oh boy, you're reaching... big time. So you mean that those who killed Jesus read that part in Isaiah, pretended to hate him, and killed him? All those people played along?

LOL!

No. Duh. God killed him(self?). Its all predetermined remember :p
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
I haven't trolled a religious thread with something new in a while. Let's see...

Hey religious troll, where's Heaven?
Religious person 500 years ago: "Up." Religious person 500 years ago, "where's Hell?" "Down."

Now that we have those telescope thingamabobbers, and a fairly solid understanding of the geology of the Earth - solid enough to exclude "the underworld" from being a part of this planet, both of those premises are fairly falsifiable.

Magically, the location of Heaven has evolved to be in another plane of existence. (Where's it say that in the Bible?) Furthermore, the Bible states that Heaven is up. (Which way did Jesus go when he ascended to Heaven? Tower of Babel? Etc.)

So, OP, how do you reconcile this?
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
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It hold weight because it is based on reason and logic and critical thinking. All things the human brain is capable of doing. Albeit better for some than others :)

It will hold based on reason and logic regardless of source if it is a good statement. Stating a scientist said it or Wilbur the horse is irrelevant.

That said, other than him stating as such, I've never read that.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Here's something else - if the Bible was divinely inspired, surely there must be something in the Bible that speaks of some truth that was later discovered via science. Name one thing in the Bible that was later found out to be true.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
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Ahahaha I knew this was coming!

Boy oh boy, you're reaching... big time. So you mean that those who killed Jesus read that part in Isaiah, pretended to hate him, and killed him? All those people played along?

LOL!
So...the book told a prophecy about something in itself? Amazing.
The next sentence will start with the word "reading."

Reading Isaiah 53.....it reads like a vague horoscope, that we then read and say, "Uh....Jesus! Jesus did some of that stuff! That's gotta bet it!" Or maybe it was some other guy. Or maybe it was just a story some people told a very long time ago.



Here's something else - if the Bible was divinely inspired, surely there must be something in the Bible that speaks of some truth that was later discovered via science. Name one thing in the Bible that was later found out to be true.
And then compare it to the list of things the Bible predicted that didn't happen, or which weren't true, or which it missed entirely. (Well, the list of things it missed or felt didn't need mentioning is quite incredibly lengthy.)
"Oh yeah, there are these geological fault thingies I put here and there. The ground's going to shake like hell sometimes, you might want to watch that. Also, living next to the ocean can be dangerous, because sometimes I'm going to send big splashes of seawater far inland, and you're all quite susceptible to dying if you're submersed for more than a few minutes. And some of those 'clean' things I said you can eat - they can also kill you if you don't cook them properly. But if you cook them too much, then you can get a buildup of carcinogens, which can damage your DNA, which can also kill you. No, I'm not going to give you any recipes. More fun: Sunlight exposure makes your body produce some substances that help you live. But it can also damage your DNA and eventually kill you."
I have a feeling that, if the original texts would be fed through the proper algorithm, you would find a giant trollface encoded in there.



I haven't trolled a religious thread with something new in a while. Let's see...

Hey religious troll, where's Heaven?
Religious person 500 years ago: "Up." Religious person 500 years ago, "where's Hell?" "Down."

Now that we have those telescope thingamabobbers, and a fairly solid understanding of the geology of the Earth - solid enough to exclude "the underworld" from being a part of this planet, both of those premises are fairly falsifiable.

Magically, the location of Heaven has evolved to be in another plane of existence. (Where's it say that in the Bible?) Furthermore, the Bible states that Heaven is up. (Which way did Jesus go when he ascended to Heaven? Tower of Babel? Etc.)

So, OP, how do you reconcile this?
It's all probably next door to where the Greek gods are living now, since the top of Mount Olympus was found to be strangely god-free.
 
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Feb 6, 2007
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If God created the world for mankind, who did he create the Universe for? I mean, the Earth is such an infintessimally small part of the Universe that under virtually any method of rounding you use, the Earth simply doesn't exist. And yet, if a human were placed anywhere else in the Universe that wasn't Earth, they would die in a matter of minutes, if not quicker. And there are even places on our own planet we can't go; hell, 70+% of the Earth is covered in water and we can't survive in that environment. We can't survive at the poles, we can't survive at the peaks of mountains; there's an awful short range of habitable zones we can actually live in year-round.

"Here you go humans. I have made this wonderful Universe, the vast majority of which is completely uninhabitable to you. But don't worry, I made you this awesome planet... the vast majority of which is completely uninhabitable to you. But you're my favorite!"

Seems a little far-fetched, no?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Ahahaha I knew this was coming!

Boy oh boy, you're reaching... big time. So you mean that those who killed Jesus read that part in Isaiah, pretended to hate him, and killed him? All those people played along?

LOL!

Proof that people killed Jesus?
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
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Here's something else - if the Bible was divinely inspired, surely there must be something in the Bible that speaks of some truth that was later discovered via science. Name one thing in the Bible that was later found out to be true.

To be fair, light did come before the earth, the earth before animals and animals before people. The rest of it is batshit insane though.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,085
5,618
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Jesus died, didn't he? It couldn't have been a natural cause since it would not have been an act of salvation.

Indeed, although that requires the assumptions that he actually existed, was God in the flesh, and/or that God exists.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
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Don't know if you've been paying attention, but I've been laughing at your endless stupidy and absurb equivalencies since the Evolution thread.

But... keep 'em coming, taxt, keep 'em coming. Laughing is good for my health!

You had no rebuttals then, and you have no rebuttals now.

You are the reason people think so lowly of religion.