To Anyone Who Loved Everquest- or Challenging MMO's

[Bateluer]

2,718
backers

$358,173
pledged of $800,000 goal

12
days to go

They seem to really be lagging.

 

[MiataNC]

They seem to really be lagging.

I think they blew it by launching the Kickstarter before having anything really concrete to show. I have high hopes, but I think the project is going to be stillborn unless they get financial support from other sources.

 

[Bateluer]

I think they blew it by launching the Kickstarter before having anything really concrete to show. I have high hopes, but I think the project is going to be stillborn unless they get financial support from other sources.

I've seen that kill other Kickstarters before. Gotta launch with something more concrete than concept art, lore, and lofty ambitions.

 

[Subyman]

Some of the best stuff in EQ were made by the devs letting things happen organically instead of creating systems for every need of the player. The emergent gameplay in Everquest was the most extreme I've ever witnessed in a game. From the East Commons tunnel to people training entire zones on other groups, you never knew what to expect when logging into EQ.

 

[laezyre]

Pantheon kickstarter is at $365,337 this am. It's steadily moving up. My understanding is that they will continue to get funding after the kickstarter drive is over, even if $800,000 is not reached. Check out the kickstarter site and the web page. It's still very early, but the dev team has a lot of plans you can read about. We get updates every day with great dev interaction.
www.pjpantheon.com

 

[BudAshes]

Some of the best stuff in EQ were made by the devs letting things happen organically instead of creating systems for every need of the player. The emergent gameplay in Everquest was the most extreme I've ever witnessed in a game. From the East Commons tunnel to people training entire zones on other groups, you never knew what to expect when logging into EQ.

Yup this is the only cool part about MMORPG's. If the players don't influence the universe then it's just another boring pile of crap for boring turds, ie WOW.

 

[laezyre]

"Yup this is the only cool part about MMORPG's. If the players don't influence the universe then it's just another boring pile of crap for boring turds, ie WOW."

This is exactly what McQuaid and friends are doing now. They are getting all their input from fans and building the game around that. The kickstarter has only 9 days left, please consider helping them with a small donation. The team will make the game regardless of the kickstarter funding BTW.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588672538/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen

 

[Subyman]

Looks cool, but 2017 is too far out for me to put money on anything. Way too many MMOs between now and then to want to "invest" in it. The most I'll go on Kickstarter anymore is 1 year.

 

[Ventanni]

I started playing EQ again. Man, it's a 10x better game to start now than it used to be with the new starting zone.

Runs like crap though! Haha.

 

[xantub]

looking forward to it, pledged $85 (game + 7 months subscription). Definitely the type of game I want. I'm not hardcore (as in raid-hardcore), but I do want to play a game where grouping is the norm, and not something you do only after max level.

 

[laezyre]

Pantheon will NOT be just EQ with better graphics. They have a lot of details on the website, but they are taking ideas from EQ, Vanguard, FFXI, and, of course, players. I pledged $250 and this gets me a free game with a $1/year subscription rate. It will more than pay for itself, plus there are some creative and fun perks I get. I think it's great to get something different that players want out there.

 

[akugami]

Some of the best stuff in EQ were made by the devs letting things happen organically instead of creating systems for every need of the player. The emergent gameplay in Everquest was the most extreme I've ever witnessed in a game. From the East Commons tunnel to people training entire zones on other groups, you never knew what to expect when logging into EQ.

I think there were some interviews where the devs were surprised by what players were doing within the bounds of the game and sometimes they had to decide whether to apply a patch and "fix" the issues or just let it be. And, at least early on, I think they let most of the stuff players were doing stay in.

I know it's partially nostalgia but there was a great sense of freedom that I got as an early player in EQ1 that I simply have not experienced since. There was a real sense that you could do anything and go anywhere and if you ventured into the wrong place, you were going to get your ass handed to you.

 

[laezyre]

I know it's partially nostalgia but there was a great sense of freedom that I got as an early player in EQ1 that I simply have not experienced since. There was a real sense that you could do anything and go anywhere and if you ventured into the wrong place, you were going to get your ass handed to you.

This is a huge thing I miss about MMO's. I'd just add that if you came with a good group, you could either die repeatedly or come back with some amazing loot and a sense of accomplishment. Big risk and big reward was my favorite thing about EQ. None of this hand holding, care bear "penalty" for dying we have in MMO's today. Loot on EZ mode makes it cheap and almost worthless.

 

[T9D]

Failed to get the funding on Kick Starter

That was a horrible video to be honest. Everything they said was so generic and shallow. With nothing to back up what they were saying. Everything was like 'it's going to be the best! YEAH!'. Graphics and game play looked totally bland and boring too. I think people who can't make it on their own just need to fall away into obscurity. I hate that they don't have a product that real investors or companies want to invest in. And they try to fleece players to get it made when they just don't have the product or support.

If they get it done and it turns out great then wonderful. But they had plenty of chances and failed before. Go make the game and get investors not players to pay for it. Then come back with your game more finished and have something to truly show before maybe making a kick starter. If they can't get that far then they need to find a new career or different path of game to make. I feel like kick starter keeps some of the guys employed and careers going that shouldn't be on life support anymore.

 

[laezyre]

The kickstarter ended at just over 460K. They have a new website for game info and funding. This is the link: https://www.pantheonrotf.com/members/home

I agree that the kickstarter was launched too early in the game's development. This made it more difficult to show much of the game, since it's largely conceptual at this point. I think they all agree about this error. However, the dev team will make the game and continue the funding on the new website. Thanks to everyone for their help. Please visit the new site.

 

[drebo]

This is about the most generic sounding MMO I've ever seen.

"Rise of the Fallen"? Sorry, but there are just too many clichés for the game to be interesting.

 

[Bateluer]

Failed to get the funding on Kick Starter

That was a horrible video to be honest. Everything they said was so generic and shallow. With nothing to back up what they were saying. Everything was like 'it's going to be the best! YEAH!'. Graphics and game play looked totally bland and boring too. I think people who can't make it on their own just need to fall away into obscurity. I hate that they don't have a product that real investors or companies want to invest in. And they try to fleece players to get it made when they just don't have the product or support.

Warhorse had an awesome product and game in Kingdom Come: Deliverance, but no traditional publisher wanted the game because it had no dragons or magic in it. Both Obsidian and InXile had great products in Eternity and Numenera, but no publishers wanted to back them because they were aiming outside the box.

Unless you want to see nothing but shoddy F2P/P2W MMOs and FPS titles every 6 months, then you'd better start looking at indie devs and Kickstarter projects.


Pantheon's kickstarter fizzled simply because they launched it too early with little more than an early alpha. If they'd been another year or so into development and had more to show, it would have been a different story.

 

[laezyre]

This is about the most generic sounding MMO I've ever seen.

"Rise of the Fallen"? Sorry, but there are just too many clichés for the game to be interesting.

Are you judging the game by the name? Try checking out the website if you haven't yet. It's actually the opposite of generic. People are claiming that it's too different then mainstream MMO's, or too niche. That's fine with me. Most people interested in Pantheon are sick of the recent crop of WoW clones that we've seen for years. Pantheon's development team is trying to make the game different from anything we've seen in a long time.

 

[akugami]

Pantheon's kickstarter fizzled simply because they launched it too early with little more than an early alpha. If they'd been another year or so into development and had more to show, it would have been a different story.

I'll go one step further and say it's not even far enough along in development to be called an alpha. Probably needs another year of baking to be considered alpha.

Are you judging the game by the name? Try checking out the website if you haven't yet. It's actually the opposite of generic. People are claiming that it's too different then mainstream MMO's, or too niche. That's fine with me. Most people interested in Pantheon are sick of the recent crop of WoW clones that we've seen for years. Pantheon's development team is trying to make the game different from anything we've seen in a long time.

Some of the backstory and concepts are really generic and cliche. With that said, generic and cliche doesn't mean you can't have a really solid and fun to play game.

I'm interested in Pantheon because it is supposed to be the complete opposite of what we have now, which are MMO's that you can level to 50 in two weeks with solo play. I'm not interested in that. Been there, done that. I'm looking for a more social game where I don't care if I'm at level 20 for 3 months as long as it is fun. It is the developers job to make it so that I have a ton to do with challenging content to explore while I'm level 20 (or 25, 30, whatever) and I won't even notice what my level is. I should be having so much fun or are challenged to such a degree ingame that I don't care what my level is or that the backstory/premise is a bit generic.

If they can make a spiritual successor to EQ1 with challenging content, group based play, and social interaction then the game has a great chance to succeed. I'm not saying it's going to have 5 million subscribers but a subscriber base of 500k is realistic and entirely possible. And if they go the traditional subscription model, 500k x $10 would be $5m in revenue per month. That's more than enough to keep a MMO going.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

^^don't kid yourself he is answering to his bank account first also has he 100% committed to not accepting publisher money? What happens if he does?
I would love an epic not so easy mmo again but I'll wait until we see more from this project
As far as I am concerned there is a 100% chance that an mmo I am excited about will fail. I'd list them but I doubt anyone cares

Rut Roh!

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/04/16/fallen-falling-pantheon-development-on-hold/#more-201799

That is, we’ve shown there is interest in a game like Pantheon, we’ve built the term sheets and business plan, and now have a prototype we can show to potential investors.

The downside now is that our initial resources have depleted, which regrettably means that development is going to slow down **until finances can be secured**. It’s not something we want to do by any means, but as we cannot guarantee paychecks to the team, they each need to be able to spend time on other things to pay the bills.

Once we’re able to get that level of funding we can then secure much-needed studio space and be able to pick up the pace of production dramatically.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Rut Roh!

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/04/16/fallen-falling-pantheon-development-on-hold/#more-201799

That is, we’ve shown there is interest in a game like Pantheon, we’ve built the term sheets and business plan, and now have a prototype we can show to potential investors.

The downside now is that our initial resources have depleted, which regrettably means that development is going to slow down **until finances can be secured**. It’s not something we want to do by any means, but as we cannot guarantee paychecks to the team, they each need to be able to spend time on other things to pay the bills.

Once we’re able to get that level of funding we can then secure much-needed studio space and be able to pick up the pace of production dramatically.

Part of the problem is MMO flooding, there's just so many in development and EQ/WoW are still keeping potential players out of the playerbase pool even 10+ years later.

Older games need to die so newer games can be born but the problem is, people seem to be under the impression that every single aspect of a game must be completely newly innovated. Even taking a few popular aspects from the older games = "omg reskin!"

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I'm with you, I wanted to point out that Brad strongly implied there would be no outside investors and now he's shopping the idea to investors.

 

[MongGrel]

I loved EQ in it's day, I was in beta 2 ,3 and 4.

But that being said, have also forked over a couple times in recent years for Founders editions of two games I felt feel on their face that I thought would be big hits, so ........

*edit* NM should have read down to the end before posting that, heh.

And ya, Rise of the Fallen??????????

I mean, really.

 

[Jovec]

History seems to show that EQ got made despite Brad, not because of him, and that SoE forced Smedley to get rid of him. Vanguard was a disaster and MS backed out once they saw the mess they had on their hands. By all accounts (from Sigil employees) Brad was in a heroin-induced year long AFK the last year of Vanguard's development, and the game was DOA being incomplete, poor performing, and bug-laden.

The Pantheon devs didn't get much of that $160k website donation money (after the failed KS). One claimed he got "barely enough for a mortgage payment" or similar. Most believe Brad pocketed the majority of it. Brad was asked if there would be an item-by-item expense accounting of the $160k like Star Citizen apparently did, and he responded no.

They've claimed to have a demo. They claimed they don't have a demo. They've claimed they've shown everything they have to help raise money and no demo's been seen beyond maybe a non-interactive rough zone made from stock Unity assets. The team had only a single programmer. There was never a design doc (they were supposedly working on it). You had to subscribe to a monthly fee to post on the forums. The issue with the forum moderator "mod-for-a-day" debacle - Brad claiming the mod was "mod-for-a-day" and "firing him" because donators didn't like his moderation on the "state of the game" thread, when the mod claims he was doing that job (and more) for Pantheon for months without pay or promise of pay.

Oh, you can still donate to this if you want, but

NOTE: ANY MONEY PLEDGED WILL NOT BEING GOING TOWARDS DEVELOPMENT AT THIS TIME; INSTEAD IT WILL GO TOWARDS KEEPING THE WEBSITE UP AND RUNNING AND TO OTHER MAINTENANCE COSTS. WE WILL ADVISE YOU WHEN AND IF THIS CHANGES.

It looks like some of the dev team (sans Brad?) will be doing an interview with Ktam radio tomorrow.

If Brad and Pantheon are legit, then they seem to be doing everything wrong. Claiming to need only $18 million to make the game? That's like 38S/GMG claiming they only needed another $10 million to ship, after burning through $150+ million for what may be described at most as Alpha. Brad McQuaid isn't getting his investors or funding.

Just because, from here

Hey Guys, Here is the heads up on things. Brad is the only person with access to any and all of the funds. No one else has access to the accounts, it all goes through Brad's Paypal and 2checkout accounts. If you want to get a refund you will need to go through Brad. That being said, in our interview yesterday I asked about the money we have all spent buying Pantheon stuff and he said the money is all gone.

Brad is worth at least 7 figures, owns a mansion and another house and plenty of toys. Some of the Development team can't pay their mortgages - Brad's own words. The web site is bringing in an est $8k a month and Brad gets to keep that while the rest of the team look for new jobs. This site does not cost more than $500/year to operate for hosting and bandwidth. That's a lot of extra money and Brad is asking that people continue their subscriptions even though none of it goes to game development. Is that how you treat your community? How you treat people who you call friend? Sure, it's just business. But the team was never even employees, the only employee at VRI is Brad, everyone else is/was under contract and none of them have seen more than a fraction of the pay promised for the work produced. Ask the Dev's. I have been told they will answer directly if asked.

For those people who are seeking to get their money back. As an Incorporated Company I would hope Brad would have insurance to protect against the potential financial losses. Also you need to remember the money via paypal went directly to Brad and not to VRI as the e-mail accepting the money was his personal Pantheon e-mail account and NOT a VRI Account. There would be a gray area there as to who or which entity would be responsible.

^^ I can't vouch for accuracy.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

^^um wow, wow.
Not World of Warcraft wow either.