TN boy 11 years old shoots and kills 8 year old girl with 12 gauge shotgun

[MagickMan]

This is why the second amendment is bullshit.

if the 4th amendment had even a fraction of the support as the second amendment, guys like Snowden wouldn't need to flee to Russia. damn shame the guys complaining about big government don't seem to mind government snooping and privacy invasion.

The 4th is a failure, I agree about Snowden, and we shouldn't support the 2nd because of that? To undermine the 2nd the gov't would need to invade people's homes and physically take things, that isn't the case with the 4th. Supposedly intangible rights are more easily exploited.

 

[jonks]

When will people understand vehicles are dangerous. We need to call for the ban of motor vehicles. It will save lives.

"X can also cause harm, and you don't see us banning them!" Putting aside the obvious that almost every single physical object can be used to cause harm, this is not a great argument for a host of other reasons, but primarily because it assumes without any analysis equal utility between guns and whatever X is. As motor vehicles enable our society to be mobile, their utility is hard to understate . Without them, citizens would find their lives extraordinarily disrupted, and society would technologically reverse to horse and buggy. This is not true for guns, as most every other developed country, and most states with low gun ownership, still manage to function with roughly equivalent levels of crime and far lower firearm mortality rates. That said, cars, like say asbestos (wonderful fireproofing product, unfortunately causes cancer), would be banned if it were found that the harm they caused outweighed their benefits. It's just not likely given their utility.

 

[jackstar7]

Too predictable. You think you're Charlie Brown, but you're actually the teacher. "WHA, WHA, WHA WHA." :\

I'm not in the same comic. Charlie Brown goes for the football. You're Lucy. I'm Hobbes.

 

[SlickSnake]

From: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...hoots-girl-8-argument-puppy-article-1.2385429

[sarcasm]NRA and politicians: *stuffs mouth with pizza* Stuff happens! Just buy more guns.. if only the girl had a gun! *drinks sprite, burp!*[/sarcasm]

Edited: to better reflect my sentiment accurately.

Yea, it would have been a lot better if he didn't have a gun, and instead ran out with a machete and chopped off her head. That's your point, right?

Seriously, this is a very messed up story and I feel sorry for the parents of the slain girl. And I don't think we are hearing all the story, or rather, the full backstory here, either. But the fact remains, the boy was obviously completely out of his mind to have even considered killing her as an option in the first place.

And it's a lot better that he gets mental help and institutionalized somehow now, rather than later as an even more deranged and hostile adult that could commit far more heinous, vicious and serious crimes.

 

[jonks]

Yea, it would have been a lot better if he didn't have a gun, and instead ran out with a machete and chopped off her head. That's your point, right?

Roll your eyes all you want, but yes, it would be better if people had fewer guns and instead had to rely on knives and machetes instead. Machete/sword/knife attacks happen too, and mortality from blades is far lower than guns. If "every life matters" as conservatives usually argue against abortion, why not reduce the number of deaths?

 

[SlickSnake]

Had the shotgun been locked in a safe or gun cabinet, would this incident occurred? No.
Who's fault is it that the gun was not properly secured? The parents.
They're accessories to the murder of this 8 year old girl and should be held accountable. Period.

And no doubt the parents must have thought they had taught the boy all about handling guns properly, so they felt they didn't have to lock up the gun cabinet. But I guess they completely forgot to teach him any civility and common sense in the process.

It's also possible it was locked, and he knew where they hid the key, because kids are sneaky like that.

 

[SlickSnake]

Roll your eyes all you want, but yes, it would be better if people had fewer guns and instead had to rely on knives and machetes instead. Machete/sword/knife attacks happen too, and mortality from blades is far lower than guns. If "every life matters" as conservatives usually argue against abortion, why not reduce the number of deaths?

Obviously you don't live out in the wooded boondocks like a lot of Americans do, and you feel a firearm isn't necessary for your protection. But the fact remains, there are a lot of lives who would be at possible risk if a firearm was not readily available for protection, and a hunting knife simply won't cut it (pun intended). I'm in a semi-rural area near a lake, and I heard something scratching at the door late one night, and I opened my front door to a full grown wolverine eating and drinking water from bowls that I leave outside for feral cats.

Supposedly, there are none in Texas, or anywhere near Texas, yet there it was, about 2 feet away from me. I almost stepped outside nearly on top of it. It had to have been a male, and easily 80 pounds, if not more, because it was very fat. It was also stretched out completely across my deck, that was 6 feet wide, with its short, odd looking tail hanging partly over the edge. It resembled the pattern in this pic, but was a bit darker over all. After I saw it and it saw me, it sort of growled at me, and I immediately closed the door and went for my shotgun, and spied on it through a window until it ran off again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine

 

[jackstar7]

As of 2015 about 815,000 people had a gun licence in Australia and there were around 3.5 to 5.5 million Registered Firearms in Australia. Most people own and use firearms for purposes such as hunting, controlling feral animals, collecting, security work, and target shooting.

But incomparable...somehow.

 

[werepossum]

Dramatically increase the requirements to own a gun.
Make those laws universally applicable. No exceptions.
Institute widespread gun buyback programs.
Improve education about firearms, noting for example that the research tends to show owning one makes a person less safe, not more.

Etc, etc.

It's not like you suddenly solve the problem by passing some new laws, these things take time. It's long past time to stop throwing our arms up and pretending we're helpless. We're not helpless, and we're a smart and capable country. Time to start acting like it.

lol This is what "I support the Second Amendment" looks like in a proggie, folks.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

lol This is what "I support the Second Amendment" looks like in a proggie, folks.

As opposed to 11 year olds shooting 8 years olds being what "I support the Second Amendment" looks like for you folks. No lol.

 

[fskimospy]

lol This is what "I support the Second Amendment" looks like in a proggie, folks.

What parts specifically do you think violate the Second Amendment, and why?

Are we going to have to file this under the same section of all those public accommodation laws that you said give special privileges to minorities but just can't seem to find? lol.

 

[jonks]

Posts like this always remind me of this Onion article:

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131

They revisited the issue yesterday:
http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/you-take-away-guns-and-someones-just-gonna-invent--51477

 

[jonks]

Obviously you don't live out in the wooded boondocks like a lot of Americans do, and you feel a firearm isn't necessary for your protection. But the fact remains, there are a lot of lives who would be at possible risk if a firearm was not readily available for protection, and a hunting knife simply won't cut it (pun intended). I'm in a semi-rural area near a lake, and I heard something scratching at the door late one night, and I opened my front door to a full grown wolverine eating and drinking water from bowls that I leave outside for feral cats.

Supposedly, there are none in Texas, or anywhere near Texas, yet there it was, about 2 feet away from me. I almost stepped outside nearly on top of it. It had to have been a male, and easily 80 pounds, if not more, because it was very fat. It was also stretched out completely across my deck, that was 6 feet wide, with its short, odd looking tail hanging partly over the edge. It resembled the pattern in this pic, but was a bit darker over all. After I saw it and it saw me, it sort of growled at me, and I immediately closed the door and went for my shotgun, and spied on it through a window until it ran off again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine

I didn't call for a ban of all firearms, I said fewer. I think a person living in a rural area could own a hunting rifle. I don't see a reason why we couldn't enact legislation so that a person could apply for a license to own a rifle, have a background check run, have the rifle recorded in a registry, place a limit on the number of firearms a person could own, and other reasonable restrictions aimed at reducing the number of guns out there. But the NRA and GOP oppose any and every restriction whatsoever, no matter whether practical, efficacious, or logical, because of the dreaded slippery slope.

 

[fskimospy]

They revisited the issue yesterday:
http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/you-take-away-guns-and-someones-just-gonna-invent--51477

It's amazing how good The Onion is as pointing out how fundamentally dumb that position is.

 

[werepossum]

What parts specifically do you think violate the Second Amendment, and why?

Are we going to have to file this under the same section of all those public accommodation laws that you said give special privileges to minorities but just can't seem to find? lol.

Never said those public accommodation laws give special privileges to minorities, I said that government through public accommodation and similar laws (think hate crime legislation for one) provide additional protection to minorities. Today's lesson is that not all big words starting with "P" are the same. Though I'm sure you can come up with scads of stories about the government stepping in and suing businesses for failing to protect straight people from discrimination. Saying that they give me the same protection is akin to telling me those free IUDs are available for me too.

Public accommodation laws exist solely to give added protection to minorities. I understand why and I'm on board with them, I'm just not on board with pretending they aren't therefore that purpose.

 

[fskimospy]

Never said those public accommodation laws give special privileges to minorities, I said that government through public accommodation and similar laws (think hate crime legislation for one) provide additional protection to minorities. Today's lesson is that not all big words starting with "P" are the same.

Okay, so please quote the part of the public accommodation statutes that give extra PROTECTION to minorities.

Though I'm sure you can come up with scads of stories about the government stepping in and suing businesses for failing to protect straight people from discrimination. Saying that they give me the same protection is akin to telling me those free IUDs are available for me too.

Can you provide me of an example where a straight person was discriminated against by a business due to their sexual orientation in a state where sexual orientation is a protected class, they complained to authorities, and the government did not act?

I'll be waiting! Take your time.

Public accommodation laws exist solely to give added protection to minorities. I understand why and I'm on board with them, I'm just not on board with pretending they aren't therefore that purpose.

Public accommodation laws were created to protect minorities from abuses, but they were created in a way where every single person in the entire country is 100% equally protected. You tried your "woe is me" routine as if you were somehow not privileged by these additional protections. It was a lie, as usual for you. When called on it, you just decided to keep lying. That's because you're not a very honest person.

 

[jackstar7]

"there for"

That tripped me up.

 

[fskimospy]

Oh, and werepossum, your latest attempt to lie your way out of something inspired me to do a quick search.

This is what you said when asked how gays were more protected than straight people:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37638117&postcount=133

By laws specifically listing them as protected groups. There simply is no equivalent for straight people. I understand and accept it, but I am not going to pretend it doesn't exist.

Oops.

So again, please point out the law that specifically lists them as a protected group without any equivalent for straight people. Take allllll the time you need. lol.

 

[SlickSnake]

I didn't call for a ban of all firearms, I said fewer. I think a person living in a rural area could own a hunting rifle. I don't see a reason why we couldn't enact legislation so that a person could apply for a license to own a rifle, have a background check run, have the rifle recorded in a registry, place a limit on the number of firearms a person could own, and other reasonable restrictions aimed at reducing the number of guns out there. But the NRA and GOP oppose any and every restriction whatsoever, no matter whether practical, efficacious, or logical, because of the dreaded slippery slope.

There's already a staggering amount of gun laws out there to control firearms including both federal and states laws. Regardless, even more gun laws won't make stupid people any smarter when handling or mishandling firearms. And if there were some sort of outright gun ban, then you can bet most of the firearms would then be in criminals hands, which wouldn't make me feel any safer.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

 

[x26]

From: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...hoots-girl-8-argument-puppy-article-1.2385429



[sarcasm]NRA and politicians: *stuffs mouth with pizza* Stuff happens! Just buy more guns.. if only the girl had a gun! *drinks sprite, burp!*[/sarcasm]

Edited: to better reflect my sentiment accurately.

I sure hope Mommy doesn't unleash you on Society unattended!!

 

[werepossum]

Okay, so please quote the part of the public accommodation statutes that give extra PROTECTION to minorities.

Can you provide me of an example where a straight person was discriminated against by a business due to their sexual orientation in a state where sexual orientation is a protected class, they complained to authorities, and the government did not act?

I'll be waiting! Take your time.

Public accommodation laws were created to protect minorities from abuses, but they were created in a way where every single person in the entire country is 100% equally protected. You tried your "woe is me" routine as if you were somehow not privileged by these additional protections. It was a lie, as usual for you. When called on it, you just decided to keep lying. That's because you're not a very honest person.

THAT. WAS. MY. POINT. Sheesh. Yes, I'm included, just as I also qualify for free Obamacare IUDs. I am NOT saying "woe is me", I am specifically saying that these groups had problems the rest of us do not have and laws were created specifically for their benefit. I even said I'm fine with that. My inclusion has the value of alien abduction insurance, but as I said, I'm fine with that.

"there for"

That tripped me up.

lol My bad. Can't even blame that wonky iPad "autowrecked" function, I typed that on a PC.

Oh, and werepossum, your latest attempt to lie your way out of something inspired me to do a quick search.

This is what you said when asked how gays were more protected than straight people:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37638117&postcount=133

Oops.

So again, please point out the law that specifically lists them as a protected group without any equivalent for straight people. Take allllll the time you need. lol.

lol You got me. The laws were created for their benefit - as you yourself just admitted - and specifically address the conditions (race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation) that lead to their discrimination, and those laws have no equivalent utility for straight non-minority Christians, but they do not specifically list those groups.

I wish you all happiness in enjoying your technical victory. That's more than I ever got from you based on one specific word, but hey, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

 

[Subyman]

Well until just a few years ago the 2nd amendment was interpreted by the courts very differently and that could easily change in the future. It's not exactly the biggest problem.

The number of constituents that vote on 2nd amendment issues is actually a very small percentage of the population, they just exert outsize influence due to being single issue voters that vote a lot. I would not be at all surprised to see the gun lobby lose much of its influence if US elections became more inclusive. Once that happens, quite a lot of what I just listed becomes very possible.

None of these things are impossible or rely on a fundamental change in our culture.

That is a culture change. We'd need Supreme Court intervention or an amendment convention backed by enough people that care and agree that the 2nd amendment should be changed.

There is no way around it. With enough public support, stuff will get changed. What I'm saying is that the current US culture will not support sweeping changes. Even when we get past that then the extremely hard part begins. Trying to round up 300 million guns (buy back, confiscate, whatever.)

Forget Obamacare, this would be one of the largest undertakings of the century. That's why I believe it is impossible to do anything meaningful.

 

[soundforbjt]

That is a culture change. We'd need Supreme Court intervention or an amendment convention backed by enough people that care and agree that the 2nd amendment should be changed.

There is no way around it. With enough public support, stuff will get changed. What I'm saying is that the current US culture will not support sweeping changes. Even when we get past that then the extremely hard part begins. Trying to round up 300 million guns (buy back, confiscate, whatever.)

Forget Obamacare, this would be one of the largest undertakings of the century. That's why I believe it is impossible to do anything meaningful.

Outlaw the sale of ammunition and supplies to "roll your own"? A gun is pretty useless without ammo.

 

[Ns1]

Outlaw the sale of ammunition and supplies to "roll your own"? A gun is pretty useless without ammo.

Chris Rock already covered this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZrFVtmRXrw

 

[fskimospy]

THAT. WAS. MY. POINT. Sheesh. Yes, I'm included, just as I also qualify for free Obamacare IUDs. I am NOT saying "woe is me", I am specifically saying that these groups had problems the rest of us do not have and laws were created specifically for their benefit. I even said I'm fine with that. My inclusion has the value of alien abduction insurance, but as I said, I'm fine with that.

Ahh so now they aren't 'more equal' than you anymore, are they. They are protected from discrimination that you never had to experience to begin with but you thought that protection somehow made them a special and favored class, even when you enjoy the same thing if you ever DO need it.

lol You got me. The laws were created for their benefit - as you yourself just admitted - and specifically address the conditions (race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation) that lead to their discrimination, and those laws have no equivalent utility for straight non-minority Christians, but they do not specifically list those groups.

I wish you all happiness in enjoying your technical victory. That's more than I ever got from you based on one specific word, but hey, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

You tried to paint anti-discrimination and public accommodation laws as making gay people and minorities somehow more protected or more privileged than you were. "More equal", as you put it. All while talking about your willingness to bear that cross for the greater good. That is a shitty opinion to hold when the only thing those laws do is protect people from things you already don't have to worry about. And in the offchance you do? You're protected too.