Times Of Israel Publishes Op-Ed About 'When Genocide Is Permissible', Then Deletes It

[WhipperSnapper]

There'd be a lot more dead Israelis, that's for sure. And a lot less dead civilians because it would be far more even handed. The Israelis tried that in Jenin and it was a disaster.

In that case, who can blame them for not wanting to fight house to house.

I suppose that if I were fighting "house to house", I would just order that the adjoining houses containing the people I'm fighting be obliterated by tank shells or an airstrike. There's no reason to suffer casualties on your own side if you can avoid it.

 

[Victorian Gray]

So, you're saying Hamas is not bent on Israeli genocide in spite of all the evidence to the contrary? It's just a peace-loving group, right?

If every Jewish person packed up and left Israel tomorrow would Hamas follow them to wherever they went and try and kill them?

 

[Dari]

War isn't supposed to be "even handed." If you fight, you fight to win; minimizing casualties to yourself and those you're responsible to protect as much as possible.

If you want to risk losing, you do something stupid and handicap yourself by making it "even handed."

In that case, who can blame them for not wanting to fight house to house.

I suppose that if I were fighting "house to house", I would just order that the adjoining houses containing the people I'm fighting be obliterated by tank shells or an airstrike. There's no reason to suffer casualties on your own side if you can avoid it.

You're both absolutely right. But countries follow rules and killing civvies is a big no no. Legally, you're supposed to avoid civilian deaths but Israel isn't even pretending to do this. Hamas is actively trying to kill Israeli civilians but no one ever said they were a legal force. The only reason Israel gets away with this is because they have political capital in Europe and America. Germany is the undisputed leader in Europe and they would never put Israel on trial. That thought is unthinkable in America as well.

 

[irishScott]

You're both absolutely right. But countries follow rules and killing civvies is a big no no. Legally, you're supposed to avoid civilian deaths but Israel isn't even pretending to do this. Hamas is actively trying to kill Israeli civilians but no one ever said they were a legal force. The only reason Israel gets away with this is because they have political capital in Europe and America. Germany is the undisputed leader in Europe and they would never put Israel on trial. That thought is unthinkable in America as well.

Yes, the roof-knocking, leaflets and phone calls are all complete hoaxes.

Civilians die in war, often by accident. Israel is doing a damn fine job keeping the body count down all things considered. You want to look at a war where the winning side didn't even pretend to look after Civilians, check out Russia in Chechnya during the 90s. Gaza is presently a picnic ground by comparison.

 

[irishScott]

If every Jewish person packed up and left Israel tomorrow would Hamas follow them to wherever they went and try and kill them?

No way to know for sure, but my first thought is "yeah". Their stated mission is the outright destruction of Israel and I doubt they'd stop at just getting the land back. Whether they'd have the capacity to go around the world killing ex-Israelis is another matter.

 

[Victorian Gray]

No way to know for sure, but my first thought is "yeah". Their stated mission is the outright destruction of Israel and I doubt they'd stop at just getting the land back. Whether they'd have the capacity to go around the world killing ex-Israelis is another matter.

Ok, now I see, it's not all Jews they hate enough to kill, just Israeli Jews? And you believe that Hamas (or, perhaps all Palestinians?) would at least *want* to exterminate all ex Israeli Jews even if they simply gave up and left Israel forever?

 

[Phokus]

Yes, the roof-knocking, leaflets and phone calls are all complete hoaxes.

Telling civillians to go into a building for safety and then bombing it is the opposite of protecting civillians. Also bombing children all alone playing soccer on a beach as well. Leaflets/'roof-knocking' is for show to fool you idiots.

 

[Dari]

Telling civillians to go into a building for safety and then bombing it is the opposite of protecting civillians. Also bombing children all alone playing soccer on a beach as well. Leaflets/'roof-knocking' is for show to fool you idiots.

Looks to me like they want to increase the kills per shot ratio. Herd everyone into a building then bomb the building.

 

[alcoholbob]

It makes sense from the Jewish point of view that they would think Hamas would hunt them to the ends of the Earth since its what they would do, seeing how they are hunting down anyone in their 90s who worked with the Nazis directly or indirectly.

 

[DigDog]

something something, WW2, Hitler, Palestine, Israel.

 

[emperus]

No way to know for sure, but my first thought is "yeah". Their stated mission is the outright destruction of Israel and I doubt they'd stop at just getting the land back. Whether they'd have the capacity to go around the world killing ex-Israelis is another matter.

To even entertain the idea that Israel would ever leave that land is proof positive that you don't even understand the foundation of this conflict.

 

[werepossum]

Well, it was published, albeit briefly, and if you click the internal link offered by the paper, the 'Times of Israel' made what sounds to me like a genuine apology.

That authoritarian attitude in favour of "kill em all" is hardly rare in Israel, West Virginia, Russia, Islamabad or Vancouver or London, when the third pint has been consumed.

Many people in most cultures deal with challenges to what they regard as "sacred values", with similar rants.

As others have said on this thread, Anandtech Forums have sometimes let this sort of thing through. Good for them, free speech is vital.

In Israel the Shas party has often advocated a general genocide of Palestinians and few there even bat an eyelid. Every nation has its nutters, it only becomes a problem when they start to win elections.

Recent BBC filming from Sderot, on the Israel/ Gaza border, showed a graffito slogan, high on a wall, in Hebrew, which translates as "kill all Muslims".

Nasty, for sure, but not rare.

Well said.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Yes, the roof-knocking, leaflets and phone calls are all complete hoaxes.

Civilians die in war, often by accident. Israel is doing a damn fine job keeping the body count down all things considered. You want to look at a war where the winning side didn't even pretend to look after Civilians, check out Russia in Chechnya during the 90s. Gaza is presently a picnic ground by comparison.

I've never heard of a nation dropping leaflets, dummy bombs, and making phone calls prior to a military operation. It may be unprecedented in world history.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Whether they'd have the capacity to go around the world killing ex-Israelis is another matter.

If they could, they probably would.

 

[emperus]

I've never heard of a nation dropping leaflets, dummy bombs, and making phone calls prior to a military operation. It may be unprecedented in world history.

All the while the the nation still bombs 3 known UN shelters in 1 week and kills children at a 30% rate.

 

[irishScott]

To even entertain the idea that Israel would ever leave that land is proof positive that you don't even understand the foundation of this conflict.

To even entertain the idea that I wasn't speaking about a hypothetical is proof positive that you don't understand basic grammar.

 

[irishScott]

Ok, now I see, it's not all Jews they hate enough to kill, just Israeli Jews? And you believe that Hamas (or, perhaps all Palestinians?) would at least *want* to exterminate all ex Israeli Jews even if they simply gave up and left Israel forever?

No they probably hate all Jews, but I imagine Israelis top the list. Much like most Arab nations hate Palestinians, but they hate Israelis more.

And yes, I believe given their MANY ideological statements on the matter that a significant faction of Hamas would happily re-start Hitler's death camps if they had the resources and opportunity.

 

[irishScott]

Telling civillians to go into a building for safety and then bombing it is the opposite of protecting civillians. Also bombing children all alone playing soccer on a beach as well. Leaflets/'roof-knocking' is for show to fool you idiots.

Looks to me like they want to increase the kills per shot ratio. Herd everyone into a building then bomb the building.

I haven't heard about the first incident, and the 2nd incident is isolated.

I simply find any accusation that the Israelis are attempting to "up their kill count" to be pathetically ignorant. If the IDF wanted to slaughter Palestinians wholesale, or even just subtly upping their kill numbers, they'd be doing it, and the casualty numbers would blow your ignorant minds. Not to mention that given the world's scrutiny of the events it's in Israel's interest to limit collateral damage as much as possible.

 

[Dari]

I haven't heard about the first incident, and the 2nd incident is isolated.

I simply find any accusation that the Israelis are attempting to "up their kill count" to be pathetically ignorant. If the IDF wanted to slaughter Palestinians wholesale, or even just subtly upping their kill numbers, they'd be doing it, and the casualty numbers would blow your ignorant minds. Not to mention that given the world's scrutiny of the events it's in Israel's interest to limit collateral damage as much as possible.

That's exactly what they're doing. Using tanks where tanks were not meant to be used. Yeah, precision my asshole. Killing hundreds to get one or two seems to be the MO of this latest operation...

 

[Phokus]

I haven't heard about the first incident, and the 2nd incident is isolated.

I simply find any accusation that the Israelis are attempting to "up their kill count" to be pathetically ignorant. If the IDF wanted to slaughter Palestinians wholesale, or even just subtly upping their kill numbers, they'd be doing it, and the casualty numbers would blow your ignorant minds. Not to mention that given the world's scrutiny of the events it's in Israel's interest to limit collateral damage as much as possible.

You don't hear it because you choose not to hear it. LMAO "isolated incident". Israel tells people to go somewhere, then they bomb the place. The UN keeps on telling Israel NOT to bomb a location because of people taking shelter there, they bomb it anyway. That happened in the previous operation as well.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...tack-on-un-school-a-criminal-act-9645278.html

It was the seventh time a UN shelter has been hit in the 27 days of the Gaza conflict. The victims had all taken shelter in the schools after being instructed by the Israeli military to leave their homes.

The Israeli military had been informed no less than 17 times about the location of the Jabaliya school, the UN revealed. An attack the previous week in Beit Lahiya, resulting in 16 deaths, led to the UN and the Israeli military trading accusations over who was to blame for a failure to evacuate the building.

Talk about ignorance. Israel has to balance its lust for murder with the fact that they can't just go COMPLETELY nuts on the Palestinians. Even the US has limits on what it can and can't condone. And this is one of the first times I can remember that the US has criticized Israel for something its done. I can't believe you fall for the 'leaflets/roof knocking' nonsense as if that 'proves' they're humanitarian killers. Israeli propaganda is incredibly effective - it's convinced simpletons such as yourself that they're a just society.

 

[emperus]

You don't hear it because you choose not to hear it. The Israel tells people to go somewhere, then they bomb the place. The UN keeps on telling Israel NOT to bomb a location because of people taking shelter there, they bomb it anyway. That happened in the previous operation as well.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...tack-on-un-school-a-criminal-act-9645278.html






Talk about ignorance. Israel has to balance its lust for murder with the fact that they can't just go COMPLETELY nuts on the Palestinians. Even the US has limits on what it can and can't condone. And this is one of the first times I can remember that the US has criticized Israel for something its done. I can't believe you fall for the 'leaflets/roof knocking' nonsense as if that 'proves' they're humanitarian killers. Israeli propaganda is incredibly effective - it's convinced simpletons such as yourself that they're a just society.[/QUOTE]

This. Especially in the US. I think that is why here is such a gap between perceptions of Israel in the US and abroad.

 

[Phokus]

This. Especially in the US. I think that is why here is such a gap between perceptions of Israel in the US and abroad.

The US media is absolutely afraid of AIPAC. I can't speak for European or Asian media, but there's no denying that American media is kowtowing to batshit crazy rightwing Zionists (Christian, Jew, or otherwise). And of course there are financial interests at stake as well (the 3 billion a year we give to Israel to spend on American weapons sees to that). One of the truly ironic things is, you'll find more criticism of Israeli policy against Palestinians in ISRAELI media (i.e. Haaretz) than you will in US media.

 

[irishScott]

Jewish media conspiracies, pervasive propaganda (and it must be pervasive, because I read multiple international sources as well), instructing the IDF (a world-renowned military) on how to use its tanks, facts taken out of context in a failed attempt to prove an assumption (that a building hit by accident was actually hit intentionally), and the snap judgement that Israel is not a just society.

Yeah, this discussion has ceased to have any intellectual merit. I can rest easy knowing your opinions would get laughed out of a high school debate club.

 

[emperus]

Jewish media conspiracies, pervasive propaganda (and it must be pervasive, because I read multiple international sources as well), instructing the IDF (a world-renowned military) on how to use its tanks, facts taken out of context in a failed attempt to prove an assumption (that a building hit by accident was actually hit intentionally), and the snap judgement that Israel is not a just society.

Yeah, this discussion has ceased to have any intellectual merit. I can rest easy knowing your opinions would get laughed out of a high school debate club.

You sound like someone utterly incapable of incorporating or assimilating information.

 

[Phokus]

Jewish media conspiracies, pervasive propaganda (and it must be pervasive, because I read multiple international sources as well), instructing the IDF (a world-renowned military) on how to use its tanks, facts taken out of context in a failed attempt to prove an assumption (that a building hit by accident was actually hit intentionally), and the snap judgement that Israel is not a just society.

Yeah, this discussion has ceased to have any intellectual merit. I can rest easy knowing your opinions would get laughed out of a high school debate club.

The hilarious thing is, you'd get your ass handed to you in a high school debate club because you aren't even prepared with the basic facts. Again, you choose to ignore reality because you know you're morally and intellectually bankrupt. You don't even know that Israel is targeting civilians on purpose, even when they're given coordinates of buildings NOT to bomb, they do so anyway. How are we to take someone such as yourself seriously?