Time to get it on... Israel is attacking Yassir Arafat's complex as we speak

[Czar]

<< but the difference is that Arafat has refused repeatedly to discuss peace, as demonstrated by his refusal to attend the Arab Summit. If >>


that was not because he didnt want to, Sharon didnt let him and also the Egyptan President warned him of leaving palestine in fear that Sharon wouldnt let him in the country again.

 

[Czar]

<< No, I never said that. For 50 years Israel has tried for peace. The Arabs flately refuse it and there is only one very simple reason why: The Arabs will not tollerate an Israeli state in the Mideast. It the very same reason Bin Laden has attacked the US and the people there support him. >>


The far right Palestinians want the whole country for themselves as to the far right Israelis. Have any of those peace proposals from Israel involved in a fully independant Palestine? no, never. Now the Arabs come with a peace proposal that would allow peace to come with full independance of Palestine and the Isrealis reject it, do they want peace? sure but only on their terms.



<< For some strange reason, you have an "all or nothing" logic. Czar, war is justified when peace is rejected by the aggressor, and the killing continues no matter what the victim does. Tell me just how there could have been a peacful resolution to Nazi aggression. Please. >>


Not realy, war sometimes is forced upon us, that happened in WW2. Sure you can apply every bit of history to almost any situation but that does not make them the same. Tell me, when do you think the Palestinians will be pleased enough so they will stop the terrorist acts?

 

[rahvin]

<< The far right Palestinians want the whole country for themselves as to the far right Israelis. Have any of those peace proposals from Israel involved in a fully independant Palestine? no, never. Now the Arabs come with a peace proposal that would allow peace to come with full independance of Palestine and the Isrealis reject it, do they want peace? sure but only on their terms. >>



Do you know what the sticking point is? Why the arabs reject the peace plan israel proposes and israel rejects the one they propose? Because Israel steadfastly refuses to allow the palestinians who left in '68 to return. Israel has in fact said half a dozen or more times that they recognize and accept that there must be a palastinian state. I have as yet to hear the Palestinians accept that there is a state of Israel.



<< Not realy, war sometimes is forced upon us, that happened in WW2. Sure you can apply every bit of history to almost any situation but that does not make them the same. Tell me, when do you think the Palestinians will be pleased enough so they will stop the terrorist acts? >>



Terrorism is not an act of war, it's an attempt to inflict terror and damage on civillian targets for no other purpose than to incite terror in the population. It is NOT an accepted form of state-state aggression. EVER. War is being forced upon Israel, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't so they will take the solution that eliminates the problem once and for all as any sane nation state would.

As AmusedOne has been telling you Czar, the politics of apeasement DON'T work. By attempting to appease an aggressor using force all you do is enourage further acts of agression. Why did arafat finally say he accepted the treaty without condition? Because Israel had called up the reserves and was about to kick their ass. Fact is he WOULDN'T have accepted it if Israel hadn't moved to take care of the problem themselves. Arafat overstepped his ability to negotiate politcally.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword. He bombs them, they bomb him back as hard as they can. Simple as that. Go Israel!

 

[veryape]

<< :| the people who scream for war and murder make me sick :| >>

And your views on everything America make me sick. I'm sure I speak for a great deal of members on this forum when I say "your opinion is about as meaninful as Arafat's opinion is". All you do is bash everything American and since we seem to want Arafat under control, of course it would be your duty to bash anything that we "evil Americans" consider justice.

You cloak your anti-American reteric under the guise of wanting to save innocent lives. Give it a break already. How many people should they let die for no reason before something is done?

Thank God you don't lead any of these countries, for you'd be hugging trees or possibly yourself strapping on a bomb and killing innocents.

Until you come up with a plan of your own stop bashing the actions of others who aren't afraid to fight for what is right.

 

[tdog44632]

Arafat could have attended the Summit if he wanted, but the Saudi's were going to publicly admonish him. You are correct saying that Mubarak warned him not to go, because he wants to stay important and in the media spotlight and if Israel wouldn't let him in he might no longer have power. It's funny to me that Arafat biggest supporter the president of Eygpt got there because extremists murdered Anwar Sadat.

 

[BooneRebel]

Looks like this belongs in this thread, too:

What to do if you happen upon a peace rally of stupid, naive, college idiot, "REBEL'S WITHOUT A CLUE," to teach them why force is sometimes
needed:

1) Approach one of the dumb, rich, ignorant students talking about "peace" and saying there should be "no retaliation."

2) Engage in brief conversation; ask if military force is appropriate.
3) When he says "No," ask, "why not?"
4) Wait until he says something like, "Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not respond to violence with more violence."
5) When he's in mid-sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.
6) When he gets back up and starts to punch you, point out that it would be a mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would, "be awful and he should not respond with more violence."
7) Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not to react with violence.
8) Punch him in the face again, harder this time.
Repeat steps 5 through 8 until he understands that sometimes it's necessary to fight back. Or until the pathetic, stupid little puke starts to bleed to death. ....................................

 

[Jfrag Teh Foul]

<< so instead of finding a peaceful solution to everything we should always go to war >>



How many "peaceful solutions" does Isreal have to wait through, while at the same time PLO suicide bombers are killing their innocents?

Arafat is a pimp that can't/doesn't control his b!tches... that is why Isreal has had enough. And to say that they are wrong for not turning the other cheek (AGAIN)... is simply ludicrous.

 

[Lioness]

I believe Sharon is making a mistake by not seizing this opportunity. Oh, don't get me wrong he has every right to defend his people against the suicide bombers. But nothing he, nor Israel has done for the past 120 yrs., has resolved the problem. For the first time ever, and correct me if I'm wrong, not only is the entire world focused on the middle east but the Arab summit has unanimously (sp. wrong) put forth a plan for peace in this part of the world. In this peace plan their are promises to be fulfilled by 22 Arab nations.

Sharon is much more aware than the rest of the world, esp. the Arabs, of what kind a man Arafat is. For the record, I suggest Sharon publicly inform the entire world that he will follow all the requests put forth by the Arab summit, as well as the Tenet and Mitchell plans. To prove that he is a man who truly wants peace. After Sharon has done everything that is requested of him and gave 100%, the ball is then thrown into the Arafat, Palestinian, and 22 Arab nations, court. The pressure will then be on them. And the world will be watching.

We can talk about the history and past broken promises on both sides of the fence. We can go on forever and blame the Palistinians, and/or Arafat, Israel. And of course, you know the U.S. is blamed for everything More importantly let's put this on record before the entire world so there will no longer be any fuzzy accusations. And if/when the suicide bombings continue after all that Sharon has done, then he gives Arafat and ultimatum. One, two, three strikes; your out.

 

[Bulk Beef]

<< Tell me, when do you think the Palestinians will be pleased enough so they will stop the terrorist acts? >>

Perhaps never, but that's not a good enough reason for Israel to stand back and do nothing while it's citizens are murdered.

 

[Nocturnal]

uh havent they bomb his complex a few times already? or at least tried to? well maybe it was one of his other complex's that he uses. im not sure, but ive heard on the news before "isreal is bombing arafat's complex's" blah blah.

 

[Tripleshot]

>>>uh havent they bomb his complex a few times already? or at least tried to? well maybe it was one of his other complex's that he uses. im not sure, but ive heard on the news before "isreal is bombing arafat's complex's" blah blah. <<<

That was in Gaza. This event is in Ramallah.

 

[bambam]

The Israelis say that they will not harm Arafat in all this ( only isolate him and destroy his terrorist organization structure). Apparently they have left a couple of phone lines connected (which they can monitor) and in early parts of the this mornings battle some child runners smuggled out some notes. What about coded messages etc if Arafat isn't completely isolated - no communications )

 

[Nocturnal]

when they middle east has made peace, that is when the anti-christ will come supposedly.

 

[jjones]

<< For the first time ever, and correct me if I'm wrong, not only is the entire world focused on the middle east but the Arab summit has unanimously (sp. wrong) put forth a plan for peace in this part of the world. In this peace plan their are promises to be fulfilled by 22 Arab nations. >>


Why is it I get the feeling that this is the reason behind the latest suicide attacks? The Arab world puts forth a plan for peace, showing to the world they are reasonable and can come to terms with peace if only the Israelis will. Then Arab terrorist factions, sponsored by Arab nations, provoke Israel into escalating military action. Hmm...maybe I'm just cynical.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

cleared

 

[jjones]

<< Israel has two choices-- Either it needs to give up some of its claims, or it needs to step up to the plate, admit its goals, and swat the Palestinians away. >>


That's been my thoughts all along. In a lot of ways this is Israel's own doing; not that I am excusing the Palestinians in any way. I've just thought Israel has played too indecisively in dealing with this situation. Their real problem still is what to do about the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza; if it weren't for that hole that they've dug themselves into, this conflict would have been over a long time ago one way or the other.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

jjones

I couldnt agree more

 

[josphII]

<< Ok, you support the cause of self defense, then I suppose you support actions taken by the palestinians for self defense? >>




what self defense? how does killing innnocent women and children constitute self defense?


How would you react if somebody killed your wife and children? sit and do nothing as you are preaching?? i think not

 

[Dudd]

Israel just needs to make a decision to actually use its full military power. Appeasement doesn't work, peace talks get started every few months but last only until the next round of bombings followed by reprisals, it's all one big mess. Israel needs to invade the Palestinian controled areas, keep control, and arrest and shut down all the terrorist groups. If the world tells them to pull back, Israel needs to have the balls to tell them that they are sick of being bombed and that they're fixing the problem themselves. Little two, three day strikes do nothing besides temporarily subverting terrorist attacks, killing a few people, and then pissing of a new round of suicide bombers. They need to go in and show the Palestinians what their full military power can do, and then after the smoke clears, tell them that it will happen again if one more bomb explodes in a crowded civilian area. Pretty soon, they'll get the message, or all the terrorists will be dead, and then both sides might get peace.

 

[Texmaster]

<<

<< but the difference is that Arafat has refused repeatedly to discuss peace, as demonstrated by his refusal to attend the Arab Summit. If >>


that was not because he didnt want to, Sharon didnt let him and also the Egyptan President warned him of leaving palestine in fear that Sharon wouldnt let him in the country again. >>



From what I understand, Sharon would let him leave to go to the summit but was not clear if he would allow Arafat to return and I think that is what kept Arafat away.

 

[Nefrodite]

what self defense? how does killing innnocent women and children constitute self defense?

yup, the 9/11 attacks were eslf defense