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Time to get it on... Israel is attacking Yassir Arafat's complex as we speak

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<<

<< Again, where have I cheered? I believe they are more than justified, and I wish the Arabs hadn't brought it to this, but I have NOT cheered. If you're going to accuse me of something, produce a quote or stop twisting my words to fit your preconceived notion of me. :| >>


Sorry, maybe you havent cheered like so many people have, but you are supporting the reason why so many people cheer. >>



I support the cause of self defense, yes. Other people's emotional outbursts are not my fault, Czar, and they do not negate nor nullify Israel's right to defend itself from 50+ years of aggression.

I think it freakin' sucks that this has to happen, just as I think it sucked that the Nazis brought on their own deaths. I do not cheer war, Czar. I hate it. But I will support it when the cause is just. I can think of few causes more just than Israel's.
 


<< I support the cause of self defense, yes. Other people's emotional outbursts are not my fault, Czar, and they do not negate nor nullify Israel's right to defend itself from 50+ years of aggression.

I think it freakin' sucks that this has to happen, just as I think it sucked that the Nazis brought on their own deaths. I do not cheer war, Czar. I hate it. But I will support it when the cause is just. I can think of few causes more just than Israel's. >>


Ok, you support the cause of self defense, then I suppose you support actions taken by the palestinians for self defense?

At lest we agree that war sucks.
 


<<

<< I support the cause of self defense, yes. Other people's emotional outbursts are not my fault, Czar, and they do not negate nor nullify Israel's right to defend itself from 50+ years of aggression.

I think it freakin' sucks that this has to happen, just as I think it sucked that the Nazis brought on their own deaths. I do not cheer war, Czar. I hate it. But I will support it when the cause is just. I can think of few causes more just than Israel's. >>


Ok, you support the cause of self defense, then I suppose you support actions taken by the palestinians for self defense?

At lest we agree that war sucks. >>



Suicide bombers can hardly be called categorized as self defense.
 


<<

<< I support the cause of self defense, yes. Other people's emotional outbursts are not my fault, Czar, and they do not negate nor nullify Israel's right to defend itself from 50+ years of aggression.

I think it freakin' sucks that this has to happen, just as I think it sucked that the Nazis brought on their own deaths. I do not cheer war, Czar. I hate it. But I will support it when the cause is just. I can think of few causes more just than Israel's. >>


Ok, you support the cause of self defense, then I suppose you support actions taken by the palestinians for self defense?

At lest we agree that war sucks. >>



:::sigh:::

Czar, I've debated this with you so many times. And on every occasion you've had your intellectual ass handed to you. If you'd like to debate me on who's right and wrong here YET AGAIN, go find one of the other current threads where I've made my points and debate them there. I do not feel like going through it all again.
 


<<
I support the cause of self defense, yes. Other people's emotional outbursts are not my fault, Czar, and they do not negate nor nullify Israel's right to defend itself from 50+ years of aggression.

I think it freakin' sucks that this has to happen, just as I think it sucked that the Nazis brought on their own deaths. I do not cheer war, Czar. I hate it. But I will support it when the cause is just. I can think of few causes more just than Israel's. >>



Yes. You can never have a just war. But you can have a just cause.
 
I have a feeling that the Arab leaders will withdraw their peace offer, unless Isreal withdraws from Ramallah. But I think that Isreal may actually need to make Arafat believe if he doesn't take action against Hamas and the other terrorist groups, that they will.

However, I am incredibly saddened that it has come to this.
 


<< :::sigh:::

Czar, I've debated this with you so many times. And on every occasion you've had your intellectual ass handed to you. If you'd like to debate me on who's right and wrong here YET AGAIN, go find one of the other current threads where I've made my points and debate them there. I do not feel like going through it all again. >>


Sure sure, try to live in your own ideal world that applies to everyone.






<< Yes. You can never have a just war. But you can have a just cause. >>


A just cause is only in the eye of the beholder
 


<< :|the people who scream for war and murder make me sick :| >>



So... would you prefer people running unchecked and flying planes into buildings?

Pacifism will never win against evil... it takes blood, guts and sacrifice. If you were Isreal and people were running through your streets with bombs duct taped to them blowing up your civilians (which the Palestinians have been doing this to Isreal for years) what would you do... would you stand by your peaceful ways and let this continue?

I don't think anybody here is screaming for murder... they are screaming for the very thing you want.. Peace. To gain it you have to fight... if you don't believe that you might want to open a history book every once in a while.

EDIT: And while you're at it check a bit into human nature.
 


<<

<< :::sigh:::

Czar, I've debated this with you so many times. And on every occasion you've had your intellectual ass handed to you. If you'd like to debate me on who's right and wrong here YET AGAIN, go find one of the other current threads where I've made my points and debate them there. I do not feel like going through it all again. >>


Sure sure, try to live in your own ideal world that applies to everyone.






<< Yes. You can never have a just war. But you can have a just cause. >>


A just cause is only in the eye of the beholder >>



Oh, so we were just in stopping the Nazis only because we believed we were just... and the Nazis were as just as we were? Czar, stop it.
 
Just yesterday afternoon/evening, Michael Savage claimed that some Israeli newsource(?) revealed that Arafat was not assassinated because Sharon had promised Bush he would not take out Arafat. Bush apparently wanted Arafat alive.

Well, then that very night I hear this news. So, either Savage was making that up or the Israeli source was making it up or Sharon decided to outsmart Bush.

Again, I don't give a ****. Let them wipe each other out. If that is how they find happiness in their lives, more power to both sides. Here's what I know, both are going to pay for their trangressions some day. I wish I were alive to see it then or whatever dimension I visit next allows me to witness it bounce back on them. It's a turn by turn game, at least that's what history teaches me.
 


<< Oh, so we were just in stopping the Nazis only because we believed we were just... and the Nazis were as just as we were? Czar, stop it. >>


Everything comes to WW2 with you
rolleye.gif
its time to move on


edt.
But sorry AmusedOne, I shouldnt be wenting out on you since you, there are many in this thread that should rather deserve it:frown:
 




<<


<< Yes. You can never have a just war. But you can have a just cause. >>


A just cause is only in the eye of the beholder >>



Sure. But then again just about everything in life is in the eye of the beholder. All that means is that we do the best that we can. And sometimes that means making hard choices if you believe what you are doing is neccesary.
 


<<

<< Oh, so we were just in stopping the Nazis only because we believed we were just... and the Nazis were as just as we were? Czar, stop it. >>


Everything comes to WW2 with you
rolleye.gif
its time to move on >>



I guess the concept of an "example" escapes you. However, I believe the only reason it does is because your faulty pacifist philosophy fell flat on it's face.
 
🙁 no one answered my question.....i can't find anything as to say if he is indeed in custody or killed. (i'm assuming he isn't dead otherwise we would hear that.)
 
Arafat & the PLO are nothing more than terrorists. They don't want peace with Israel, they want to see Israel destroyed. If you think otherwise then you are simply kidding yourself. Why else would the media, schools, etc... that Arafat controls continue to preach for the destruction of Israel and the hatred of Israelis? I saw something recently on one of the news channels, can't remember which one, that had some school books ranging from kindergarden to high school and in them hatred towards the Jews is preached over and over again. Who controls the PLO school system? Arafat. If he truly wanted peace then he would cut that crap out, cut out the nightly Jew hating speeches on PLO television and reign in all the terrorist cells that he controls. You are either blind or stupid if you think he has no control over the suicide bombers. Just look at the Iranian arms shipments that Israel has uncovered, they have been traced all the way back to Arafat yet some of you still proclaim his innocence and that he is some great peacemaker. Of course most of you are also probably too young to remember that Arafat had a hand in the murder of a U.S.Ambassador in the late 70's but that it was swept under the rug by the Carter administration "in the interest of the greater good in the Middle East." Arafat is a terrorist, he harbors terrorist, and it's time to end his power.
 


<<

<<

<< Oh, so we were just in stopping the Nazis only because we believed we were just... and the Nazis were as just as we were? Czar, stop it. >>


Everything comes to WW2 with you
rolleye.gif
its time to move on >>



I guess the concept of an "example" escapes you. However, I believe the only reason it does is because your faulty pacifist philosophy fell flat on it's face. >>


its more like the yak yak yak using the same "example" for everything
 


<<

<<

<<

<< Oh, so we were just in stopping the Nazis only because we believed we were just... and the Nazis were as just as we were? Czar, stop it. >>


Everything comes to WW2 with you
rolleye.gif
its time to move on >>



I guess the concept of an "example" escapes you. However, I believe the only reason it does is because your faulty pacifist philosophy fell flat on it's face. >>


its more like the yak yak yak using the same "example" for everything >>



Because the example fits, Czar. It completely shatters your misguided and unrealistic pacifist philosophy. You know it, and you hate it for that.
 
I would think that common sense would dictate that Humanity should not pursue a course of violence, but in the case of Palestine vs. Israel how many innocent lives have to be lost before you do something about it. Certainly Israel in its campaign to obtain independance as a State used terrorist tactics, but the difference is that Arafat has refused repeatedly to discuss peace, as demonstrated by his refusal to attend the Arab Summit. If your loved ones were blown up by suicide bombers, you would be screaming for justice too! The campaign against violence does not mean that you have to refrain from violence, because sometimes it is the only way to end conflict. Americans fighting for independance used terrorist tactics against British rule. Would you say that this was wrong? Violence is currently the only way to solve Global problems, because people in charge want to stay there. Is this morally right, probably not but thats the way it is. It is nice to say do not cheer violence, but what does that do for the students of Tianemen Square, the people of Zimbabwe, women in Saudia Arabia, nothing!! Same people say eliminate guns, so only criminals can have them and law-abiding folks cannot defend themselves. Justice requires punishment, because with no punishment there can be no rewards.

Tony
 


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<<

<<

<<

<< Oh, so we were just in stopping the Nazis only because we believed we were just... and the Nazis were as just as we were? Czar, stop it. >>


Everything comes to WW2 with you
rolleye.gif
its time to move on >>



I guess the concept of an "example" escapes you. However, I believe the only reason it does is because your faulty pacifist philosophy fell flat on it's face. >>


its more like the yak yak yak using the same "example" for everything >>



Because the example fits, Czar. It completely shatters your misguided and unrealistic pacifist philosophy. You know it, and you hate it for that. >>


so instead of finding a peaceful solution to everything we should always go to war
if that would be then china would have invaded taiwan, the US would invade taiwan, pakistan and india would be in a nuclear war, all hell would brake out in africa and so and on.
Not the world I would like to live in
 


<< so instead of finding a peaceful solution to everything we should always go to war >>


Works for me....unlike the Euros the U.S. and Israel realzie that sometimes you just have to kick someone's ass. Sure you can try to talk it out first if the other party is reasonable, however if they aren't then it's time to open up a can of whoop ass on them.
 


<<

<<

<<

<<

<<

<< Oh, so we were just in stopping the Nazis only because we believed we were just... and the Nazis were as just as we were? Czar, stop it. >>


Everything comes to WW2 with you
rolleye.gif
its time to move on >>



I guess the concept of an "example" escapes you. However, I believe the only reason it does is because your faulty pacifist philosophy fell flat on it's face. >>


its more like the yak yak yak using the same "example" for everything >>



Because the example fits, Czar. It completely shatters your misguided and unrealistic pacifist philosophy. You know it, and you hate it for that. >>


so instead of finding a peaceful solution to everything we should always go to war >>



No, I never said that. For 50 years Israel has tried for peace. The Arabs flatly refuse it and there is only one very simple reason why: The Arabs will not tollerate an Israeli state in the Mideast. It the very same reason Bin Laden has attacked the US and the people there support him. They see Israel and the US as infidels in their "holy lands"
and they must be removed at any cost. This is why they have rejected any and all peace agreements, Czar. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee.


<< if that would be then china would have invaded taiwan, the US would invade taiwan, pakistan and india would be in a nuclear war, all hell would brake out in africa and so and on.
Not the world I would like to live in >>



For some strange reason, you have an "all or nothing" logic. Czar, war is justified when peace is rejected by the aggressor, and the killing continues no matter what the victim does. Tell me just how there could have been a peacful resolution to Nazi aggression. Please.
 
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