Time To End Minimum Wage

[Incorruptible]

Who will pay to organize adopting the baby out? The taxpayers. Who will pay to organize the forcing of mothers to give up their babies? The taxpayers. Who will pay for the health costs of giving birth to a baby without health insurance. The taxpayers.

Your way isn't magic. I'd argue it'd cost more in the long run both financially and emotionally(to the children).

Apparently you haven't heard of this concept where girls keep there legs closed and avoid the whole situation but that requires common sense

 

[nehalem256]

I'm 100% capitalist and quasi-conservative, but I think a high minimum wage is a good idea. $8 bucks minimum, maybe 9 in some areas of the country.

Here is my logic:

Some claim it will put small businesses out of business. I say, if you cannot pay someone a livable wage, you shouldn't be in business.

Others don't realize, companies will screw people and if we don't throw some money to the bottom we're going to have a socialist revolt on our hands in the future that is going to ruin capitalism for everyone.

$8 might be about right.

Take 35hr/week * 50 week * X = 125% of poverty (~$11,000)

Solve for X = hourly wage of $7.85/hr. Index it to inflation, so businesses can plan for increases. Mission accomplished.

 

[shadow9d9]

Apparently you haven't heard of this concept where girls keep there legs closed and avoid the whole situation but that requires common sense

That is fantasy, not reality.

I prefer to deal with reality and its consequences and not fantasy.

Also, you could thank the republican's abstinence only education! Just Say No really worked well for drugs!

Educate people on birth control for less birth rates.

 

[alkemyst]

Yes, minimum wage should be abolished. Those that qualify for the minimum do not belong in our society.

I have never worked for minimum wage except while delivering chinese food at 16-18 which with tips paid more than $20 per hour (I worked like 12-16 hours all prime time though so no way it was a $20*40 hours deal) or my paper route when I was in middle school.

When I was 16, it was 1987; I was at $12.50/hour. I made $6 hour since I was 12.

 

[alzan]

I have no problem if the couple keeps the child and can afford it but if they cant then they must adopt the baby

Except you ignored the part about how government is involved in way too many things and serving special interests. Taxes shouldn't be paying for ridiculous programs

1) Must adopt the baby? I'm sorry, did I miss the headline that Incorruptible was just made dictator?

2a) Didn't ignore it, just thought it was obvious. There will always be corrupt politicians as long as they're more concerned with taking lobbyist money so that they can build up their war chests for the next campaign season.

2b) I agree; I think the Dept. of Defense is a ridiculous department with idiotic weapons programs and should be abolished.

 

[Moonbeam]

I have no problem if the couple keeps the child and can afford it but if they cant then they must adopt the baby

By definition parents are parents and don't have to adopt their children. Where have you been.

And don't bother to reply. I just suggest that if you can't speak properly you may not think properly either.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

No. The minimum wage sets a floor that limits how badly the rich can screw the poor.

Wrong. The minimum wages prevents low/no skill workers from negotiating a wage that they and employers feel they are worth. In addition it prevents employers from competing with each other at the bottom rung of the ladder when it comes to bidding for low skill workers. Thus it creates a artificial cap on who is worth being hired and promotes unemployment amongst those who cannot compete with others who are worth at least the minimum wage rate or higher when it comes to the employer offering them a job and taking own further risk by hiring a new employee. Lastly any increase on the minimum wage would end up with the cost of such wage hikes being directly passed onto consumers who in turn will face a higher cost of living and thus such polices make being poor more costly for those at the bottom

 

[shadow9d9]

Wrong. The minimum wages prevents low/no skill workers from negotiating a wage that they and employers feel they are worth. Thus it creates a artificial cap on who is worth being hired and promotes unemployment amongst those who cannot compete with others who are worth at least the minimum wage rate or higher when it comes to the employer offering them a job and taking own further risk by hiring a new employee.

Negotiating a wage? When was the last time that has happened? What reality do you live in? The wage will be "negotiated" by companies exploiting and abusing american workers even more than they already have, and then will continue to strip away unions to have even more ultimate control.

 

[nehalem256]

Wrong. The minimum wages prevents low/no skill workers from negotiating a wage that they and employers feel they are worth. Thus it creates a artificial cap on who is worth being hired and promotes unemployment amongst those who cannot compete with others who are worth at least the minimum wage rate or higher when it comes to the employer offering them a job and taking own further risk by hiring a new employee. Lastly any increase on the minimum wage would end up with the cost of such wage hikes being directly passed onto consumers who in turn will face a higher cost of living and thus such polices make being poor more costly for those at the bottom

Considering that high school kids with no job skills regularly get minimum wage jobs. I think it is safe to assume that anyone is not employable at minimum wage wont exactly be doing much negotiating.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Wrong. The minimum wages prevents low/no skill workers from negotiating a wage that they and employers feel they are worth. In addition it prevents employers from competing with each other at the bottom rung of the ladder when it comes to bidding for low skill workers. Thus it creates a artificial cap on who is worth being hired and promotes unemployment amongst those who cannot compete with others who are worth at least the minimum wage rate or higher when it comes to the employer offering them a job and taking own further risk by hiring a new employee.

Your argument would probably make more sense if employers actually had an abundance of minimum wage job openings that they weren't filling. That doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Considering that high school kids with no job skills regularly get minimum wage jobs.

Buzz.wrong...Youth traditionally have the highest rate of unemployment rate in this nation especially in metropolitan areas with large influx of competing illegal immigrants.

I think it is safe to assume that anyone is not employable at minimum wage wont exactly be doing much negotiating.

This is false. The negotiation occurs indirectly as one employer competes with others to attract new or established employees for low skill positions as older or more experienced workers move on for various reasons including seeking employment for higher wages with other prospective employers in the same field of employment.

With a minimum wage the employers of low skill work are not forced to compete with each other for workers at the lower rung of the employment ladder and workers not worth the minimum wage are blocked out of employment because they are not worth the risk of employment. Thus any ability to directly or indirectly compete on wages by both the worker and the employer vs other employers is artificially prevented.

 

[Demo24]

Yes, minimum wage should be abolished. Those that qualify for the minimum do not belong in our society.

I have never worked for minimum wage except while delivering chinese food at 16-18 which with tips paid more than $20 per hour (I worked like 12-16 hours all prime time though so no way it was a $20*40 hours deal) or my paper route when I was in middle school.

When I was 16, it was 1987; I was at $12.50/hour. I made $6 hour since I was 12.

Oh look, another Alkemyst brag post

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Your argument would probably make more sense if employers actually had an abundance of minimum wage job openings that they weren't filling. That doesn't seem to be the case.

It is verifiably documented that low skill jobs have the highest turn over rate in employes due to various reasons such as the nature of work involved, etc.

In addition the largest cost and risk for a employer is replacing an older/experienced employee with a new employee for these jobs. However since there is no incentive for competition at play in terms of wages between employers or the ability for unskilled workers to bid for lower wages rates to gain employment employers are not forced to raise wages for these jobs and unskilled workers are not able to bid at lower wage rates to gain employment because they do not meet the minimum wage rate worth of risk of employment. Thus minimum wage sets a artificial cap as stated of employment and those who fall below it are at disadvantage when it comes to seeking employment and establishing a work history which they can in turn parley toward employment elsewhere for a higher wage. Also as I stated increase in minimum wage also have the added effect of increasing the cost of living for those who are poor along with the aforementioned capping of employment for those who are only worth the minimum wage.

Edit: If you still disagree then think about this scenario. What do you think would happen if minimum wage was raised to say 25 dollars an hour in this nation?

 

[manimal]

It is verifiably documented that low skill jobs have the highest turn over rate in employes due to various reasons such as the nature of work involved, etc.

In addition the largest cost and risk for a employer is replacing an older/experienced employee with a new employee for these jobs. However since there is no incentive for competition at play in terms of wages between employers or the ability for unskilled workers to bid for lower wages rates to gain employment employers are not forced to raise wages for these jobs and unskilled workers are not able to bid at lower wage rates to gain employment because they do not meet the minimum wage rate worth of risk of employment. Thus minimum wage sets a artificial cap as stated of employment and those who fall below it are at disadvantage when it comes to seeking employment and establishing a work history which they can in turn parley toward employment elsewhere for a higher wage.

So entry level jobs are just unpaid training for future employment. Gotcha.


Dignity of work

 

[DucatiMonster696]

So entry level jobs are just unpaid training for future employment. Gotcha.


Dignity of work

Entry level/low skills jobs are just that entry level/low skill jobs. However anyone with ounce an of common sense is going to use that type of job as spring board to establish a work history and employment references and in order to seek employment elsewhere if they are given the opportunity show that they are indeed worth the risk of employment for a position at a higher wage. This is especially true if they have incentives to further expand their skill sets and used this to sell themselves to a prospective employer in order to bid and/or bargain for that higher wage.

However how does this establishment of a work history occur? Especially when a minimum wage artificially puts in a barrier that indirectly states to employers (who must deal with and account for the risk of hiring a new employee) that people who are worth less then the stated minimum wage rate are not worth the risk of unemployment. Or do foolishly believe that businesses are in the nature of being or should be altruistic/blind when it comes to taking own risk?

 

[nehalem256]

Edit: If you still disagree then think about this scenario. What do you think would happen if minimum wage was raised to say 25 dollars an hour in this nation?

There is a substantial difference between $25 and $7.25

The difference is that $3/hr jobs are not jobs that are worth having.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Anyone here feel like An420 has been breeding?

We should abolish minimum wage, as soon as every company consists of one owner, and one employee, so the owner can look the employee in the eye and be proud that s/he is paying that employee a fair, living wage.

Reality is, unless employees make enough to eat, they will stop being employees, because they will starve (substitute any other survival requirement for food here to get the same result).

Currently, the .gov picks up the slack for poor wages, which is why ordinary welfare is really just more corporate welfare.

I'm a big fan of 'student' minimums for under-18, with part-time restrictions on hours, to respect young people's need for experience (but not 'living wages').

 

[alkemyst]

Oh look, another Alkemyst brag post

Not a brag bro. I worked for all that.

No one is entitled to live on their own. I also don't support minimum wages.

Fuck everyone can get into college today which is half our battle.

In the past it was rare to be the astronaut. Today, everyone can be.

If you don't allow them to be, they will sue the fucking shit out of you!!!!

 

[alkemyst]

The difference is that $3/hr jobs are not jobs that are worth having.

That's the mentality today. It goes against our capitalistic nature.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

There is a substantial difference between $25 and $7.25

You are not answering my question what would occur if you were to raise the minimum wage to $25 dollars an hour?

The difference is that $3/hr jobs are not jobs that are worth having.

Except for those who typically have had a harder time establishing a work history because they are not worth $7, $10, $15 or yes even $25 dollars an hour.

 

[nehalem256]

You are not answering my question what would occur if you were to raise the minimum wage to $25 dollars an hour?



Except for those who typically have had a harder time establishing a work history because they are not worth $7, $10, $15 or yes even $25 dollars an hour.

If 16 yr old High School kids are worth $7/hr. Who isnt?

If you raised minimum wage to $25/hr you would get massive inflation and/or economic collapse.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Except for those who typically have had a harder time establishing a work history because they are not worth $7, $10, $15 or yes even $25 dollars an hour.

If these folks are so desperate for unpaid jobs, there is always volunteer work. Once you reach absurdly low wages, that's really what we're talking about anyway.

 

[dank69]

You are not answering my question what would occur if you were to raise the minimum wage to $25 dollars an hour?



Except for those who typically have had a harder time establishing a work history because they are not worth $7, $10, $15 or yes even $25 dollars an hour.

If you aren't worth $7/hr you aren't worth $0.50/hr. Everyone knows this.

 

[3chordcharlie]

If you aren't worth $7/hr you aren't worth $0.50/hr. Everyone knows this.

If you have a 'job' that needs doing, that you value at only $0.50/hr, then it either doesn't need doing at all, or you need to re-evaluate your cost structure.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

If 16 yr old High School kids are worth $7/hr. Who isnt?

Again the highest rate of unemployment is seen among youths in the US. Amongst that group those with the most obscene rates of unemployment are typically African American youths who not only compete with their peers for minimum wage jobs but also adults with college degrees that have not panned out, illegals, and other adults with low education.

If you raised minimum wage to $25/hr you would get massive inflation and/or economic collapse.

This is wrong. Inflation only occurs if the Fed prints and dumps more money into the system. Raising the minimum wage would not effect the value of our currency or force the Fed to print more money. However upping the minimum wage would effect the cost of living as employers pass on their costs to consumers and again bar the entry way for those not worth 25 dollars an hour to hire. Just as 7 dollars an hour bars the entry way for those who are worth less then that in the market.