Thunderfoot > Ben Stein

[jagec]

Originally posted by: JS80
So he takes snippets of already truncated comments made for a TV segment on a news show and calls him a fool based on attacking statements made out of context?

Have you SEEN a TV before? That's 99% of it right there.

 

[judasmachine]

outrageous random happenstance vs. invisible man in the sky round 936521340694776906908549750659673456236519876591437591

score: home: 0 visitor: 0

 

[zinfamous]

he was a speech writer for Nixon...what did you expect?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Juddog
Very interesting video. Basically points out how Ben Stein is a fool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiNGK3y5Ypg

There is a rather large difference between intelligent design and creationism.

Therefore your title kinda makes you a fool as well.

(Hint: I'm an agnostic, so don't bark up the wrong tree)

In that video (poorly edited as it was), Stein is arguing creationism, pure and simple. The repeated line of "life springing from lightning hitting a mud puddle," that Stein is obviously saying sarcastically, is virtually impossible to take any other way than "life didn't come about because of this stupid theory; God created life." That's certainly the interpretation I got. That's creationism. If you believe that God created life, you believe in creationism. It may not be Biblical creationism, with Adam and Eve in the Garden, but it's still the same concept; God created life.

 

[punchkin]

Originally posted by: BrokenVisage
Ben Stein IS very intelligent, and it's my contention that the smarter you become the more likely you will begin to see (or "want" to see) a cosmic influence on life. Obviously there are exceptions, many of them, but the minds of those who are vastly wise are complex to the point that they need a tie that binds, a figurative road map for life to originate from and follow that centers around an all-powerful, all-knowing being who set things up for us. It doesn't make them stupid to believe so and it's not necessarily a cop-out either, some people just can't accept the fact that life finds a way given enough time and the right conditions.

Just get watching Jurassic Park, did you? Got any support for your "idea"?

 

[punchkin]

Originally posted by: Amused
There is a rather large difference between intelligent design and creationism.

Sure. Intelligent Design is the new face of creationism. The new face is vastly different from the thing itself. :disgust:

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: punchkin

Originally posted by: Amused
There is a rather large difference between intelligent design and creationism.

Sure. Intelligent Design is the new face of creationism. The new face is vastly different from the thing itself. :disgust:

ID is NOT the new face of creationism, since it rejects the 7-day creation in favor of millions of years of evolution, a thing which still sends the ultra-conservative into fits.

 

[Locut0s]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: punchkin

Originally posted by: Amused
There is a rather large difference between intelligent design and creationism.

Sure. Intelligent Design is the new face of creationism. The new face is vastly different from the thing itself. :disgust:

ID is NOT the new face of creationism, since it rejects the 7-day creation in favor of millions of years of evolution, a thing which still sends the ultra-conservative into fits.

Point out one way in which ID is a theory in an off itself and it might start to pick up some small spec of credibility. Creationism is a theory, God create this shit! Evolution is a theory, this shit evolved! ID has no tenants, statements, structure, or substance of it's own. "You are wrong and here is why I think you are wrong" Has never been and will never bee a valid alternative to any theory period!

 

[punchkin]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: punchkin

Originally posted by: Amused
There is a rather large difference between intelligent design and creationism.

Sure. Intelligent Design is the new face of creationism. The new face is vastly different from the thing itself. :disgust:

ID is NOT the new face of creationism, since it rejects the 7-day creation in favor of millions of years of evolution, a thing which still sends the ultra-conservative into fits.

ID was created by creationists, to advance the ideas of creationism. As I said, it's the new face, not identical, but it certainly is the new face. Look at the history and origins of creationism. Look at "Of Pandas and People", where early drafts contained references to creationism in umpteen places-- later redacted in the hopes of avoiding the obvious connection. It couldn't be clearer that creationism is behind ID; hence rulings like Kitzmiller.

 

[punchkin]

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: punchkin

Originally posted by: Amused
There is a rather large difference between intelligent design and creationism.

Sure. Intelligent Design is the new face of creationism. The new face is vastly different from the thing itself. :disgust:

ID is NOT the new face of creationism, since it rejects the 7-day creation in favor of millions of years of evolution, a thing which still sends the ultra-conservative into fits.

Point out one way in which ID is a theory in an off itself and it might start to pick up some small spec of credibility. Creationism is a theory, God create this shit! Evolution is a theory, this shit evolved! ID has no tenants, statements, structure, or substance of it's own. "You are wrong and here is why I think you are wrong" Has never been and will never bee a valid alternative to any theory period!

Careful how you use that word "theory".

 

[Locut0s]

Originally posted by: punchkin

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: punchkin

Originally posted by: Amused
There is a rather large difference between intelligent design and creationism.

Sure. Intelligent Design is the new face of creationism. The new face is vastly different from the thing itself. :disgust:

ID is NOT the new face of creationism, since it rejects the 7-day creation in favor of millions of years of evolution, a thing which still sends the ultra-conservative into fits.

Point out one way in which ID is a theory in an off itself and it might start to pick up some small spec of credibility. Creationism is a theory, God create this shit! Evolution is a theory, this shit evolved! ID has no tenants, statements, structure, or substance of it's own. "You are wrong and here is why I think you are wrong" Has never been and will never bee a valid alternative to any theory period!

Careful how you use that word "theory".

Well yeah Creationism isn't a theory either I'm just making the point that as much as I dislike creationism at least it's honest about it's intentions. ID is just cowardly creationism.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

here's why religion doesn't matter, tardos (me included, get over yourselves)

your memories are your consciousness --> are you

your memories (you), are stored in a mass of neurons just behind your lips

if you were to lose your memories, it would be just like you died, or more importantly, just as if you never lived (to yourself)

when you die, that big hunk of gelatinous goo becomes the food source for billions of bacteria, destroying your memories

if you have a "soul" it does not carry your memories, so in the "afterworld" (something else), you would not remember your human life, and may as well have never lived it, making your entire existence here worthless

kind of puts a damper on your basic judeo-christian promises

unfortunately...

in a godless afterlifeless cosmos, you die and that's it, and the neutrons eventually burn out, and so what? and what's the justification of law and morality? if there is no purpose in the end analysis, what is the point of behaving in any particular way?

 

[punchkin]

Originally posted by: Locut0s
Well yeah Creationism isn't a theory either I'm just making the point that as much as I dislike creationism at least it's honest about it's intentions. ID is just cowardly creationism.

I hear ya. I guess you could say that creationism is a "theory" according to one dictionary definition, but not in the same sense as evolution, which is a scientific theory (much different meaning). I agree that ID is completely dishonest.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Fayd

Originally posted by: silverpig
Marked for later, but I really liked him. Oh well.

and because he might believe in intelligent design is CLEARLY a reason why you CAN'T like him now.

funny that.


why is it I can believe in science, evolution, and such and NOT have a problem with people who believe in creationism, intelligent design, god farted and there was life, or any other belief you might want to create.....and yet so many others take such things so personally.

it's pathetic imo.

this thread reminds me of when bill nye was debating an atmospheric physicist from MIT that global warming was real and a problem. and everybody on this dumb board was saying how stupid the atmospheric physicist was and how bill nye was making him look the fool.

the fact that so many of you can treat others with a different take on a situation than yourselves with such venom is disgusting to me.

We have a natural tendency to not like people who are willfully stupid, grossly ignorant, or in this case intellectually dishonest. It's especially bad when someone like Ben Stein pushes his false beliefs to an uneducated public. 49% of Americans are already creationists, and this crap will embolden them. Unfortunately for civilization they vote, just like Muslim extremists do in the middle east.

Ben Stein deserves hostility solely for making our country look even worse to the international community.
We torture, we don't have UHC like everyone else does, we use the death penalty, most of us want to pull out of Iraq and leave brown people to die in our quagmire, 20% of our crops are used for biofuel while millions of the world's poor are priced out of sustenance, and half of us don't "believe in" evolution.
I disagree with Michelle Obama. I've never been more embarassed to be an American.

Thanks Ben Stein.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Fayd

Originally posted by: silverpig
Marked for later, but I really liked him. Oh well.

and because he might believe in intelligent design is CLEARLY a reason why you CAN'T like him now.

funny that.


why is it I can believe in science, evolution, and such and NOT have a problem with people who believe in creationism, intelligent design, god farted and there was life, or any other belief you might want to create.....and yet so many others take such things so personally.

it's pathetic imo.

this thread reminds me of when bill nye was debating an atmospheric physicist from MIT that global warming was real and a problem. and everybody on this dumb board was saying how stupid the atmospheric physicist was and how bill nye was making him look the fool.

the fact that so many of you can treat others with a different take on a situation than yourselves with such venom is disgusting to me.

We have a natural tendency to not like people who are willfully stupid, grossly ignorant, or in this case intellectually dishonest. It's especially bad when someone like Ben Stein pushes his false beliefs to an uneducated public. 49% of Americans are already creationists, and this crap will embolden them. Unfortunately for civilization they vote, just like Muslim extremists do in the middle east.

This

I also personally dislike Religion because it is slowing down our country developmentally. Alll this Religious Bullshit is hampering our ability to find new cures to diseases with Stem Cell research, Giving women the ability to make a choice what to do with their own bodies, keeping drugs like MJ Illegal, and poisoning the minds of our children saying that the world was created in 7 days, and humans walked with dinosaurs.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

This

I also personally dislike Religion because it is slowing down our country developmentally. Alll this Religious Bullshit is hampering our ability to find new cures to diseases with Stem Cell research, Giving women the ability to make a choice what to do with their own bodies, keeping drugs like MJ Illegal, and poisoning the minds of our children saying that the world was created in 7 days, and humans walked with dinosaurs.

This thread is probably the wrong place for this but I disagree with you about stem cells and abortion. Those are ethical issues that have been hijacked by religion.

 

[gamepad]

Originally posted by: QED
Damn, that guy's voice is annoying. It doesn't take much creativity (or intelligence, for that matter) to take someone's statement out of context and pretend to be smarter by attacking the statement as it stands alone.

I have no idea what Ben Stein's true stance on evolution is, even after watching that video (since it was just one statement after another chopped up, spliced, and served up on a nice strawman platter for the annoying Brit to devour), other than I seem to get the hint that he wasn't a big fan of Darwin.

QFT. Also that guy's voice is annoying as hell.

I'm not big on creationism, but this video is a sad attempt at discrediting creationism.

 

[SirStev0]

Originally posted by: gamepad

Originally posted by: QED
Damn, that guy's voice is annoying. It doesn't take much creativity (or intelligence, for that matter) to take someone's statement out of context and pretend to be smarter by attacking the statement as it stands alone.

I have no idea what Ben Stein's true stance on evolution is, even after watching that video (since it was just one statement after another chopped up, spliced, and served up on a nice strawman platter for the annoying Brit to devour), other than I seem to get the hint that he wasn't a big fan of Darwin.

QFT. Also that guy's voice is annoying as hell.

I'm not big on creationism, but this video is a sad attempt at discrediting creationism.

I saw the real interview on CNN a little bit ago. He was more or less claiming that if Evolutionists are so right why don't they prove him wrong. It was a really bad argument especially for such an accomplished speech writer.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: gamepad

Originally posted by: QED
Damn, that guy's voice is annoying. It doesn't take much creativity (or intelligence, for that matter) to take someone's statement out of context and pretend to be smarter by attacking the statement as it stands alone.

I have no idea what Ben Stein's true stance on evolution is, even after watching that video (since it was just one statement after another chopped up, spliced, and served up on a nice strawman platter for the annoying Brit to devour), other than I seem to get the hint that he wasn't a big fan of Darwin.

QFT. Also that guy's voice is annoying as hell.

I'm not big on creationism, but this video is a sad attempt at discrediting creationism.

I saw the real interview on CNN a little bit ago. He was more or less claiming that if Evolutionists are so right why don't they prove him wrong. It was a really bad argument especially for such an accomplished speech writer.

Exactly - if the guy is going to make such a big fuss about his viewpoint versus the scientific community's viewpoint, then he should have known he would have had his points taken down one by one. This creationist / ID foolishness has to stop. It was laughable and funny up until they started to try and force it into the public school system. As it stands right now we need a revival in scientific scrutiny on people making bullsh!t claims and trying to convince our children that it's true.

ID is no different from creationism - they are both made up fantasies that ignore evidence and scientific method, ID is just creationism rebadged to try and make it look like it's scientific when it's not. A polished turd is still a turd.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
here's why religion doesn't matter, tardos (me included, get over yourselves)

your memories are your consciousness --> are you

your memories (you), are stored in a mass of neurons just behind your lips

if you were to lose your memories, it would be just like you died, or more importantly, just as if you never lived (to yourself)

when you die, that big hunk of gelatinous goo becomes the food source for billions of bacteria, destroying your memories

if you have a "soul" it does not carry your memories, so in the "afterworld" (something else), you would not remember your human life, and may as well have never lived it, making your entire existence here worthless

kind of puts a damper on your basic judeo-christian promises

unfortunately...

in a godless afterlifeless cosmos, you die and that's it, and the neutrons eventually burn out, and so what? and what's the justification of law and morality? if there is no purpose in the end analysis, what is the point of behaving in any particular way?

It makes your stay here much more pleasant?

 

[Phokus]

Intelligent Design is just Creationism masquerading as 'science'. They can't force your kids to read the bible in Biology class, so they're trying some dirty/sneaky tricks in order to sneak it into the curriculum. There are really only 2 places where ID should be taught: religion classes and philosophy classes. Keep science classes scientific.

 

[dennilfloss]

When I used to go to paleontological conventions, we called it Cretinism.

 

[Phokus]

Hahahahahhahahahaha, i just looked at a couple of the specific arguments for ID and i just LOL'd. Give me a break, this is what IDers think is 'rigorous scientific process'? "It's too complex, therefore ID is right!" is not science, i'm sorry to tell your ignorant ass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...Irreducible_complexity


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...n#Specified_complexity

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS

in a godless afterlifeless cosmos, you die and that's it, and the neutrons eventually burn out, and so what? and what's the justification of law and morality? if there is no purpose in the end analysis, what is the point of behaving in any particular way?

You're right - there is no greater reason to do (or not do something). If anything, I've found that realization more empowering. I do not lead a good life because some deity is checking up on me, in fact there is no good reason for me to live the life I do besides the fact that it makes me happy. That is so much more empowering than believing you'll be punished for not doing x, y, or z.

Morality is nothing more than a side-effect of of evolution. Groups of individuals who are obedient to laws such as no stealing or murdering are more likely to genetically survive than a bunch of thieves.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: MrPickins

Originally posted by: kranky
I don't know if Ben Stein is right or wrong, but I do know that he has done a lot more research on the topic than any of those in this thread who are using their "jump to conclusions" mat.

Good info on the movie here:

http://www.expelledexposed.com/

An excellent read and the source of my new sig! :thumbsup: