Thunderbird Rules The Pentium 4

[Zephyr]

wow.. what a nice solid argumentation NOS...not
... running out of arguments are we?

 

[NOS440]

No I've used up all my arguements that mean anything and unlike you I don't resort to spreading complete Falsehoods

 

[Zephyr]

<< unlike you I don't resort to spreading complete Falsehoods >>


That's a very serious accusation. Please show me and everyone else these &quot;falsehoods&quot; you speak of

 

[NOS440]

All they have to do is read I don't see where me repeating your slanderous statements of AMD glory would help anything !

 

[Dexion]

<< I could careless about the difference between the FPS of the T-Bird and P-4. The one thing I do know is guy's that run T-Birds on the servers I play on used to give me fits trying to beat them and after the first night of the P-4 they were asking what I did to whip them so bad !! >>



I can't help it but this statement is completely BS dude. No human(and I'm pretty damn sure you are) can see more than 80 FPS, those extra 40 FPS over a 180(640x480) average Tbird system won't do wonders, infact, even your monitor can't even display over 100FPS. So don't give me this falsehood stuff that you kicked ass because of the P4 benefits.

 

[NOS440]

Dexion I wish you could come play on this machine in Quake 3 or Unreal and you would see what I mean there have been at least 6 Diehard gamers on it and they all say the same thing after playing and I might add 2 of them have Thunderbird systems with GF2 Ultra cards and they say I GOT TO HAVE ONE THIS IS AWESOME

 

[Priit]

About this Quake3 issue: P4 seems to be world fastest running Quake3 on single-processor machine, but what about SMP ? I've read that Quake3 greatly benefits from SMP in busy fight scenes where frame rate usually drops far below average. It's possible to get dual-P3/866 with MSI VIA-based mobo and 512Mb RAM cheaper than P5/1.4Ghz and 256Mb of RAM (at least where I live). I'm not much of a gamer but I think constant 100FPS in games is better than frame rate 30-180FPS...

 

[NOS440]

Thats what I'm talking about with the P-4 in FPS games it keeps the frame rate at peak all the way thru the game no matter how tuff the action get's. I'm not sure about a SMP setup and how well they run Q3 but I dought they can do much if at all better than the p-4 does. but its just a guess.

 

[Priit]

Is it possibe to test Quake3 so that it would show lowest frame rate or how often it goes below 80 in the end ? I have a feeling that SMP would be ahead P4 on those measurements...

 

[BW]

I've also read that the next generation AMD will be biult much like the P4 is.So AMD is not sitting on there asses.They have the t-bird for now to hold there own very well.They are also going to use sse2 in it.Sure they could add to 3dnow and make it just as good but it makes more sense to use sse2 couse most of the programmers code for it more anyway thanks to Intel's strong arm.With RDram,sse2 with a faster cach transfer path and a longer pipeline i think AMD will compete head to head with the P4.

 

[NOS440]

Priit I believe there is a console command to have it show your current FPS while you are in the game. I can't remember what it is I will see if I can find it again. At one time my Quake 3 was setup to alway's show it but somehow I lost that install probably from all the upgrading I do I'm possesed

 

[NOS440]

BW well if what you say is true then the P-4 must be a good design if AMD is going to desirn something similar wouldn't you say ?? I really think that the success of SSE and SSE2 isn't because of Intel using strong Tactics its because they supply easy to use Compilers to Software developers to make it easy on them Thats the reason I think paying a little extra for Intel is not a bad deal. If AMD successfully impliments SSE2 that will be one more reason to have a AMD CPU ,,,

 

[Priit]

NOS440: yep, but all-time running FPS-counter isn't very usable for serious testing. I have FPS counter running all the time (I think because I don't know how to turn it off ) and Quake3 seems perfectly smooth and nice even at only ~85FPS (vsync on 85Hz, Duron700 with GF2MX, nothing overclocked, RH Linux 6.2 with XFree 4.01 and latest NVidia drivers, 1024x768 16bit most of the eye-candy turned on). Frame rate drops down to 50 for a 1-2 second in hard fighting scenes but it's never choppy. I think I couldn't see the difference even if the Quake3 would run @ 300FPS but I'm not a gamer either (I play very rarely at all and only FPS that I really like is UT anyway).

 

[Priit]

I have nothing agaist paying a little extra for something that is really good but I will not pay 3-4 TIMES extra to get -100 to +30% less/more performance or cause it's Intel/AMD/whatever That SSE-stuff stuff is practically same as 3DNow, Intel just made their SIMD instruction sets after AMD had shown what can be done with it (and Intel made their SIMD incompatible with 3DNow, of course ).
I think it's not about what's better, I think it's wise to use same SIMD instructions on both Intel and AMD's processors cause it makes software developer's life much easier. I doubt that AMD would drop the awesome FPU-performance of athlon core in their future products, I think Palomino will be pretty different from P4.

 

[Zephyr]

<< All they have to do is read I don't see where me repeating your slanderous statements of AMD glory would help anything ! >>


Ahh.. so you can't point out these socalled &quot;falsehoods&quot; ... interesting.. next time you wanna accuse somebody of lying I suggest you keep some proof to back it up with in the backhand

 

[NOS440]

Well Priit I can tell ya first hand and any gamer will that is in the top playing position that there is no such thing as to much frame rate period. By the same token that you say the ingame FPS counter isn't a real scientific way to test either is the time demo's that the review sight's run because those don't show any idea of what the sustained FPS are. I'm not trying to be scientific here and I'm also not trying to prove anything I started this thread mostly as a Joke for my debating buddy Zephyr and I to do are yearly go around that we enjoy so much. Personally I could careless what anyone buy's all I care about is my personal system and what it does for me and the P-4 in my opinion is just plain awesome. You all say the thunderbird/Duron is awesome I don't dought that they are !! hell the classic Athlon was a awesome performer till the P-3 coppermine came out.

What I can't figure is that to the best of my knowledge none of you have ever had your hands on a P-4 and are basing all your opinion's on the reviewers. I have had hands on with all the available systems we are discussing and you act like I base my opinions on nothing !!

 

[NOS440]

Zephyr I never said lying I said Falsehood you can't help you get the facts all twisted in your mind

 

[NOS440]

Priit I think from my memory that special CPU instruction started with MMX and that was Intel was it not ??

 

[Zephyr]

<< Priit I think from my memory that special CPU instruction started with MMX and that was Intel was it not ?? >>


Actualy MMX was (and is) an Integer SIMD, while 3Dnow! was the first FPU SIMD.... so you are both right actually

 

[cpars]

Hope your get your <> soon NOS :Q

 

[loosbrew]

heh, htis is a nice all round clean arguement! its about time you guys keep it clean! for me? i dont think the p4 is worth the extra cash but i cant say...i never used one. and who cares if its fasterthan the athlon? so what? athlons have been out a while now and its about time they start messing with it to m,ake it better. the p4 will only benefit amd, in making them stride for perfection, just as amd did to intel to make them come out with the p4. i own a 900 tbird. it was cheap and it does the job good. i know at the time i couldnt get a 900 pIII for the same price so thats where i went. i love it. its fast. not as fast as a p4 but im not worried, cause ill upgrade when the next major chage in the cpu world happens.
keep up the good arguements, and keep it clean!

my 2 sense
loosbrew

btw...i applaud nos440 for being openminded as he is. he has experience with the p4 and seems to like it, and now it seems that he is giving credit to amd for something. good for you, for not being an ass and saying that only yours is good!

 

[NOS440]

loosbrew well thank you very much thats like the third compliment I have recieved thru this marathon discussion. But the first from a AMD owner Most of the guy's that are argueing the hardest are just wishing they fell in on the sweet deal I di. They would of grabbed it too .



cpars well thanks but that's a long way off about another thousand posts !! and it took me 5 years to get the first thousand so !!! I'm not holding my breath

 

[AdamK47]

So, you've been posting before the boards were even up. I'm only 44 posts away from Golden Member status and have been registered since October of 99 (the same day this BBS was first up). Time to post mindless garbage.

 

[NOS440]

I thought it was here longer than that historian. It seems like I've been coming here for 20 years actually.

 

[NOS440]

Being my junoir bother you much ???