Thumbs Up to McCain!

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: dphantom
Too bad he didn't do something similar with the TARP bill. Would have been nice to see that killed.

Too bad he didn't do this when the Republicans were sending pork-ladened bill after pork-ladened bill off to the biggest deficit spending president in the history of this country.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: quest55720
I don't care how the Obama porkulus is killed just that it is killed. Now of the GOP would swap the tax cuts and infrastructure spending thier plan would be solid. I don't like either plan but if I had to choose between tax cuts or pork I choose tax cuts. I would rather see the size of the bill cut in half and all the money go towards infrastructure type spending. If Obama wants pork and social spending put it in another bill.

Obama didn't draw up this Bill, the Dems in Congress did. Obama's depending on the Loyal Opposition and the public make such a big stink that the Dems in Congress will have no choice but to trim this Bill of all that pork or at least a large percentage of it

Bush didn't draw up the Iraq War resolution....John Edwards and the Democratic Senate did.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: quest55720
I don't care how the Obama porkulus is killed just that it is killed. Now of the GOP would swap the tax cuts and infrastructure spending thier plan would be solid. I don't like either plan but if I had to choose between tax cuts or pork I choose tax cuts. I would rather see the size of the bill cut in half and all the money go towards infrastructure type spending. If Obama wants pork and social spending put it in another bill.

Obama didn't draw up this Bill, the Dems in Congress did. Obama's depending on the Loyal Opposition and the public make such a big stink that the Dems in Congress will have no choice but to trim this Bill of all that pork or at least a large percentage of it

For f**ks sake.. Obama should show LEADERSHIP as President.. He was elected for change not to sit around and let Nancy Pelosi try to ram this liberal bullshit down our throats. WTF is wrong with him if he can't take a leadership role on one of the most important if not the most important issue facing our country right now? Is he trying to vote 'present' on this issue as well? Taking both sides so as not to upset anyone?

 

[theeedude]

He should definitely stop taking both sides and tell Republicans they lost and should pound sand.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Traditional Liberal Media: Obama is too big to fail.

(So we won't be doing any polling if it isn't in his favor.)

What we need now is for the WSJ to step in with some polling data.

You 'librul media' people are hilarious. The same 'librul media' that has had Republicans on the news networks at way higher levels than Democrats on this issue?

What Democrats want to go on TV to say "we need to spend a whole crapload more of your money?"

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

A
Next comes the question of how fast you want them to spend the other money marked for infrastructure projects. They have to be bid, they have to be planned, etc. That doesn't happen overnight, particularly on such a massive scale. If you really want them to shovel money out the door that quickly that's fine, but you have to be willing to accept that a not insignificant percentage of the projects will be poorly planned or wasteful. Something tells me that if they just threw all this money at things that fast, instead of screaming about how it wasn't being spent fast enough, people here would be screaming about how wasteful it was. Honestly, which way would you prefer?

Don't forget the part about making $ure the "right" company get$ the contract.

 

[Vic]

The GOP is imploding on its own stupidity and ideological pigheadedness. I hope they wake up and change soon, because I'd hate for this to be a one-party country.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: Vic
The GOP is imploding on its own stupidity and ideological pigheadedness. I hope they wake up and change soon, because I'd hate for this to be a one-party country.

They have finally woken up from 8 years of being the democratic light party. This is a great start by opposing porkulus. The longer this drags out and the more people find out about the pork the better. The public will force the democrats to cave and replace pork with infrastructure spending and tax cuts.

 

[Avalon]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: quest55720
I don't care how the Obama porkulus is killed just that it is killed. Now of the GOP would swap the tax cuts and infrastructure spending thier plan would be solid. I don't like either plan but if I had to choose between tax cuts or pork I choose tax cuts. I would rather see the size of the bill cut in half and all the money go towards infrastructure type spending. If Obama wants pork and social spending put it in another bill.

Obama didn't draw up this Bill, the Dems in Congress did. Obama's depending on the Loyal Opposition and the public make such a big stink that the Dems in Congress will have no choice but to trim this Bill of all that pork or at least a large percentage of it

For f**ks sake.. Obama should show LEADERSHIP as President.. He was elected for change not to sit around and let Nancy Pelosi try to ram this liberal bullshit down our throats. WTF is wrong with him if he can't take a leadership role on one of the most important if not the most important issue facing our country right now? Is he trying to vote 'present' on this issue as well? Taking both sides so as not to upset anyone?

Why are you so negative towards Obama?

"Obama said Sunday he's confident that his economic package will have Republican support once the final plan is hammered out.


"I've done extraordinary outreach, I think, to Republicans because they had some good ideas. And I want to make sure that those ideas are incorporated," he said in an interview with NBC.

"We're going to be trimming up -- things that are not relevant to putting people back to work right now," he said. "

He's clearly trying to ensure that both sides get their input and that by the time this bill gets to him, it'll be in the best shape possible. They're still working on it. Lack of leadership to me would be him being mum about the topic, sitting around on his ass, when he's not.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Vic
The GOP is imploding on its own stupidity and ideological pigheadedness. I hope they wake up and change soon, because I'd hate for this to be a one-party country.

They have finally woken up from 8 years of being the democratic light party. This is a great start by opposing porkulus. The longer this drags out and the more people find out about the pork the better. The public will force the democrats to cave and replace pork with infrastructure spending and tax cuts.

Keep thinking this way, and maybe we can hope for a viable 3rd party to emerge within the next 8 years.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: quest55720
I don't care how the Obama porkulus is killed just that it is killed. Now of the GOP would swap the tax cuts and infrastructure spending thier plan would be solid. I don't like either plan but if I had to choose between tax cuts or pork I choose tax cuts. I would rather see the size of the bill cut in half and all the money go towards infrastructure type spending. If Obama wants pork and social spending put it in another bill.

Obama didn't draw up this Bill, the Dems in Congress did. Obama's depending on the Loyal Opposition and the public make such a big stink that the Dems in Congress will have no choice but to trim this Bill of all that pork or at least a large percentage of it

For f**ks sake.. Obama should show LEADERSHIP as President.. He was elected for change not to sit around and let Nancy Pelosi try to ram this liberal bullshit down our throats. WTF is wrong with him if he can't take a leadership role on one of the most important if not the most important issue facing our country right now? Is he trying to vote 'present' on this issue as well? Taking both sides so as not to upset anyone?

On the contrary he's showing very wise leadership by doing just what he is. I know you aren't use to that kind of leadership after the last 8 years so your are confused.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: quest55720
I don't care how the Obama porkulus is killed just that it is killed. Now of the GOP would swap the tax cuts and infrastructure spending thier plan would be solid. I don't like either plan but if I had to choose between tax cuts or pork I choose tax cuts. I would rather see the size of the bill cut in half and all the money go towards infrastructure type spending. If Obama wants pork and social spending put it in another bill.

Obama didn't draw up this Bill, the Dems in Congress did. Obama's depending on the Loyal Opposition and the public make such a big stink that the Dems in Congress will have no choice but to trim this Bill of all that pork or at least a large percentage of it

For f**ks sake.. Obama should show LEADERSHIP as President.. He was elected for change not to sit around and let Nancy Pelosi try to ram this liberal bullshit down our throats. WTF is wrong with him if he can't take a leadership role on one of the most important if not the most important issue facing our country right now? Is he trying to vote 'present' on this issue as well? Taking both sides so as not to upset anyone?

On the contrary he's showing very wise leadership by doing just what he is. I know you aren't use to that kind of leadership after the last 8 years so your are confused.

And how precisely is he showing leadership? He's just sitting there letting his own party load the bill up with more pork than IA hog truck. He should be telling them what to put in the bill. All he's doing is waiting to see how public opinion shakes out on this steaming pile of dung, er, stimulus package. If the public buys it, he'll swoop in and take the credit; if they don't, he'll hang by the sidelines and let Pelosi/Reid take the blame. Yeah, great leadership.

Hech, even the French just rejected a stimulus package as beign too fiscally irresponsible - that's leadership. Boy, never thought I'd ever get to say that about the French.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek ~~~
He's just sitting there letting his own party load the bill up with more pork than IA hog truck.

Just because you shout "Pork! Pork! Pork!" does not make it so.


And for all your Brainiacs out there - GDP fell 3.8% last quarter in spite of the massive infusion of Federal cash. Without Federal spending in the last quarter the crash in the GDP would have been significantly higher - approaching 4.5%.

So keep up the BS and self-righteousness.

The legislation provides tax cuts for working people and financial support for state and local gov't budgets. Get over it.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: senseamp
The public voted for Obama and Dems, not McCain. If the Public wanted McCain to govern the country, it would have elected him president.

5% of the people doesn't make the other 46% completely irrelevant. the opposition party exists for a reason.

You have a point. It's just too bad that instead of serving that purpose, they're a bunch of dishonest, wealthy-serving sleazebags pushing bad policies as they did for many years.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Speaking of the public, are there polls out there that show America's approval/disapproval of the Porkulus Plan as it stands now?

In the mean time, McCain is leading a sane charge again the current bill in the Senate.

CNN Article

I am liking his logical "pork" test for the bill:

Does a program take effect soon? Does it create jobs?

Logical, common sense government is what I want (espcially if it leads to fiscal discipline)...I don't care really where that logic and common sense comes from.

As is stands now? Bah... You know little about how it works.

Wait to see what actually passes. If the senate and Obama pass the plan that the house did without taking all that crap out, then lets blast them, and Obama for not honoring his "change" mantra.... For now - Obama has already publicly stated that he is not happy with the current plan and wants to take alot of crap out.

Nice troll post though

NEXT!

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek ~~~
He's just sitting there letting his own party load the bill up with more pork than IA hog truck.

Just because you shout "Pork! Pork! Pork!" does not make it so.


And for all your Brainiacs out there - GDP fell 3.8% last quarter in spite of the massive infusion of Federal cash. Without Federal spending in the last quarter the crash in the GDP would have been significantly higher - approaching 4.5%.

So keep up the BS and self-righteousness.

The legislation provides tax cuts for working people and financial support for state and local gov't budgets. Get over it.

Nice try, but if it stinks like a pig and squeals like a pig, it's pork. Yes, there's tax relief and aid to states, but there's also paybacks a-plenty to the special interest groups that got the dems back into power and way too little that will actually go to creating jobs - even short-term public works jobs. I've poked around on a couple of other political forums, including one that leans pretty far to the left - Dennis Kucinich left. The reaction from quite a few on that forum surprised me in that it was along the lines of 'what the _____ kind of stimulus package is this?'. Even many of them were upset about the junk spending in this bill.

And for the record, I was against TARP as well, as were a sizeable number of Americans from both sides of the political spectrum. It was an ill-conceived, poorly executed mess. One of the things that concerns me about the current plan is the near panic rush to get it through congress. I know I'm stating the obvious here and don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence, but this is a big deal. If the .gov is hell-bent on doing something, it's worth a couple extra weeks to ensure it's done properly. That means actually coming up with a detailed plan on exactly where the money's going to go and establishing proper oversight of how the money is being used. Shoving something of this magnitude through at such a rushed pace only fuels the perception of 'let's get this thing into law before the ignorant masses figure out what we're really doing'. Sorry, but that's the reality here.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: quest55720
I don't care how the Obama porkulus is killed just that it is killed. Now of the GOP would swap the tax cuts and infrastructure spending thier plan would be solid. I don't like either plan but if I had to choose between tax cuts or pork I choose tax cuts. I would rather see the size of the bill cut in half and all the money go towards infrastructure type spending. If Obama wants pork and social spending put it in another bill.

Obama didn't draw up this Bill, the Dems in Congress did. Obama's depending on the Loyal Opposition and the public make such a big stink that the Dems in Congress will have no choice but to trim this Bill of all that pork or at least a large percentage of it

For f**ks sake.. Obama should show LEADERSHIP as President.. He was elected for change not to sit around and let Nancy Pelosi try to ram this liberal bullshit down our throats. WTF is wrong with him if he can't take a leadership role on one of the most important if not the most important issue facing our country right now? Is he trying to vote 'present' on this issue as well? Taking both sides so as not to upset anyone?

On the contrary he's showing very wise leadership by doing just what he is. I know you aren't use to that kind of leadership after the last 8 years so your are confused.

And how precisely is he showing leadership? He's just sitting there letting his own party load the bill up with more pork than IA hog truck. He should be telling them what to put in the bill. All he's doing is waiting to see how public opinion shakes out on this steaming pile of dung, er, stimulus package. If the public buys it, he'll swoop in and take the credit; if they don't, he'll hang by the sidelines and let Pelosi/Reid take the blame. Yeah, great leadership.

Hech, even the French just rejected a stimulus package as beign too fiscally irresponsible - that's leadership. Boy, never thought I'd ever get to say that about the French.

Well if he was Dictator instead of President he'd have the power to force those in Congress to do exactly as he wishes. Fortunately he isn't so he has to use the procedures set to get the Bill where it should be and I believe he's going about it correctly. He knows how it's written by Congress that it will never be passed and by fleshing it out with the help of the Conservative Democrats and Moderate Republicans in the Senate he will get the Bill that's the most proficient, at least in his and his advisors opinion. In addition it will be a Bipartisan Bill. Whether it will do what it's intended to do is to be seen.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek ~~~

Nice try, but if it stinks like a pig and squeals like a pig, it's pork.....Sorry, but that's the reality here.

All I'm hearing from you is obstructionist talking-point rhetoric - which is typically all the American people hear.

I got news you. The people have spoken. You lost. Get over it. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

Cite in detail your specific problems with the legislation or STFU.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek ~~~

Nice try, but if it stinks like a pig and squeals like a pig, it's pork.....Sorry, but that's the reality here.

All I'm hearing from you is obstructionist talking-point rhetoric - which is typically all the American people hear.

I got news you. The people have spoken. You lost. Get over it. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

Cite in detail your specific problems with the legislation or STFU.

Sweet...agree with me or STFU you fing obstructionist! Unbelieveable. :roll:

 

[bbdub333]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Cite in detail your specific problems with the legislation or STFU.

Here's a good start:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI...ml?eref=rss_topstories

? $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

? A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

? $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

? $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

? $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

? $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

? $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

? $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

? $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

? $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

? $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

? $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

? $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

? $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

? $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

? $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

? $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

? $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

? $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

? $500 million for state and local fire stations.

? $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

? $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

? $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

? $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

? $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

? $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

? $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

? $850 million for Amtrak.

? $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint

? $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

? $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

? $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.

A laundry list of liberal agenda initiatives being passed off as "stimulus". Nice to see that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[ccbadd]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: senseamp
They don't need Republican support in the Senate. The Dems can pass this bill without Republican support if they exercise the nuclear option and change the rules to only require majority vote. It's a senate rule that can be changed by simple majority. There is no filibuster in the Constitution. What Dems need to do is have debate on this bill, then set a timer, 30 days, if it's not moved to a vote by then, they will exercise the nuclear option.

Be careful what you wish for -- or fantasize about. The Dems won't be in power forever.

That is of course one reason they haven't done it yet. However, when one party's only plan to return to power is to keep damaging the economy with obstructionism and then try to blame the Democrats in 2010, the Democrats need to do what needs to be done to prevent that.
Otherwise they will see the "success" of Republican obstructionist strategy in California brought to the whole nation.

You must be completely blind as to what the Dem's did over the last 8+ years. They had NO concern for our country and our fellow citizens and worked against Bush in order to gain power for themselves. You might be right that the Repub's will do the same, but anyone with half a brains and the ability to read history books can tell you the current path Obama is on is going to make it worse all by itself!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ccbadd
anyone with half a brains and the ability to read history books can tell you the current path Obama is on is going to make it worse all by itself!

Well sense you possess neither how do you know?

 

[Xavier434]

I don't think his pork test is enough. Both asking "Does a program take effect soon? Does it create jobs?" is a great thing, but I find it to be incomplete.


It should also ask:

Does it help get people to start buying again?
Is this a temporary band aid or something which has a reasonable chance to have an effect that leads towards a long term fix?



We cannot just be thinking about the next 2 years. We need to be thinking about the next 10 too.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek ~~~

Nice try, but if it stinks like a pig and squeals like a pig, it's pork.....Sorry, but that's the reality here.

All I'm hearing from you is obstructionist talking-point rhetoric - which is typically all the American people hear.

I got news you. The people have spoken. You lost. Get over it. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

Cite in detail your specific problems with the legislation or STFU.

The tone you're taking is extremely unhelpful in promoting a good dialog. Frankly, I don't have to agree with you and I don't have to STFU. This is the USA and we have this silly little thing that our country is based on called the Constitution. It says that I have every bit as much of a right to freedom of speach as you.

Thaks to others who posted some good specifics on the pork wagon. Sadly, I don't think our frind her is really interested in specifics as much as shutting down honest dissent.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't think his pork test is enough. Both asking "Does a program take effect soon? Does it create jobs?" is a great thing, but I find it to be incomplete.


It should also ask:

Does it help get people to start buying again?
Is this a temporary band aid or something which has a reasonable chance to have an effect that leads towards a long term fix?



We cannot just be thinking about the next 2 years. We need to be thinking about the next 10 too.

Nicely said! This gets to the real heart of why I have a problem with the stimulus package. I just don't see any way it's going to have any real long term benefit, i.e., creating lasting jobs or rebuilding sustainable businesses, which create lasting jobs. All we're going to do in the long term is light the afterburners on our national debt.