Thousands flee US Drone attacks

[cubeless]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

I've already explained this to you more than five times but YOU ARE FUCKED UP IN THE HEAD. A sick little fucker who deserves nothing but the same contempt you show for the troops on the ground.

Actually I am going to side with Lemon Law on this one.

According to Pakis, there were civilians present. And after every other strike, we hear about some women and children being around. Unless you have proof otherwise, you are just a talking mouthpiece that has been discredited more than once.

I expect nothing less from you than to automatically disagree with me, you ALWAYS do exactly that.

And in a word... NO, not even one official has claimed innocents deaths in the last three months, it could have something to do with pinpointed missiles but what do i know? I'll leave such judgement up to the experts like you and Lemon Law.

and lemmy's 'close the border, just call in a airstrike on anyone crossing' is just great until the tali brings women and kids along on for the trip... then he'll have to come up with another great solution... life is so simple when u don't have to actually do the work...

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As JOS says "A proud and youthful chevalier,
A highland lion of cheerful mien,
A slashing blade, a flashing shield,
Fighting foremost in the field. "

I can't help but wonder if that is how the Nazi SS pictured themselves. Or maybe George Armstrong Custard. The point being, when it does not fit the facts and the local population does not share the JOS delusion, good thing don't often follow.

You're comparing us to the Nazis?

I didn't think anyone would ever sink as low as that but it's obvious that men with no pride and no honor will say and do anything to further their retarded opinions, you are the evidence.

I got that from "Mo ghile mear" a Highland song that fits me because i am originally from the highlands.

I KNOW for certain that no innocents were killed in the last months bombings, 100% certain of it but of course, i'm not an expert like you and know very little since you guys have your thinking hats snugly fitted to your heads and earned the right to call troops defending the civilian population Nazis.

Next up, OCguy agreeing that NATO troops are actually Nazis...

Damn Goosesteppers! :laugh:


I fully support our mission in Afghanistan/Pakistan. If you ever see me say otherwise, I will move to San Francisco, grow a beard and long hair, join the Democratic party and donate to MoveOn.org.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: cubeless

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

I've already explained this to you more than five times but YOU ARE FUCKED UP IN THE HEAD. A sick little fucker who deserves nothing but the same contempt you show for the troops on the ground.

Actually I am going to side with Lemon Law on this one.

According to Pakis, there were civilians present. And after every other strike, we hear about some women and children being around. Unless you have proof otherwise, you are just a talking mouthpiece that has been discredited more than once.

I expect nothing less from you than to automatically disagree with me, you ALWAYS do exactly that.

And in a word... NO, not even one official has claimed innocents deaths in the last three months, it could have something to do with pinpointed missiles but what do i know? I'll leave such judgement up to the experts like you and Lemon Law.

and lemmy's 'close the border, just call in a airstrike on anyone crossing' is just great until the tali brings women and kids along on for the trip... then he'll have to come up with another great solution... life is so simple when u don't have to actually do the work...

Eventually, that will be the tactics they resort to, we all know Talibans hold no regard for the lives of women and children and enjoy torturing pre pubescent children to death, there's enough info out on that that very few can misunderstand them, well except for LL who really doesn't care, he salutes them whatever they do.

And thank you.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
No, the palehorse complaint is the Taliban gets their R&R in Pakistan. If the border is locked down, its no advantage for the Taliban, and very doable because the terrain is screwed up for everyone. But we can fly and they can't, remote sensor can detect movement, and we can vector in jets before any trespassers can reach cover.

The palehorse delusion is that NATO is strong enough to control both Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan while admitting NATO is so weak it can't even control one side of the border. And even if the border is a little porous, its not the requirement of my plan, my plan is to offer the Afghan people a government that works, and if we start small and build outward, we have the troops to prevent Al-Quida and Taliban sabotage. Then let the Afghan people choose which they want. If the Taliban wants to start the violence it will be bad PR for them, our problem is that NATO starts the violence and its bad PR for NATO.

Starting small and building outward is just allowing/ceding control of most of the country to the opponents. That is where we were 7 years ago.

Pushing our way in and squeezing the Taliban out.
Now you are stating that we should cede back all the territory won to the Taliban and try again?

The Taliban were able to run to Pakistan and hide, because Pakistan did not care to do anything about it.
Only when Pakistan has been burned have they reacted. Yet they also side with the Taliban and have cede control of territory to them rather than force the issue.

To Green Bean:
Once a target has been designated by a drone; it will take anywhere from 1-12 hours for troops to get into location to do anything. In that amount of time, the Taliban could be warned of an attack that is coming and be long gone. The drones need to be able to launch on command; let the Pakistanis work with the drone operators to analyze the targets if there are such concerns.

Given the the Pakistani military has little concerns about clearing out villages; why the outcry when the is some collateral damage due to a strike. Precision weapons are being used to minimize collateral damage.

 

[Lemon law]

No I did not compare you to the Nazis per say, I just pointed out you are in denial of the facts of what your actions bring.

Maybe it depend on what innocents are but the following JOS statement strains credibility with "I KNOW for certain that no innocents were killed in the last months bombings"

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As JOS says "A proud and youthful chevalier,
A highland lion of cheerful mien,
A slashing blade, a flashing shield,
Fighting foremost in the field. "

I can't help but wonder if that is how the Nazi SS pictured themselves. Or maybe George Armstrong Custard. The point being, when it does not fit the facts and the local population does not share the JOS delusion, good thing don't often follow.

You're comparing us to the Nazis?

I didn't think anyone would ever sink as low as that but it's obvious that men with no pride and no honor will say and do anything to further their retarded opinions, you are the evidence.

I got that from "Mo ghile mear" a Highland song that fits me because i am originally from the highlands.

I KNOW for certain that no innocents were killed in the last months bombings, 100% certain of it but of course, i'm not an expert like you and know very little since you guys have your thinking hats snugly fitted to your heads and earned the right to call troops defending the civilian population Nazis.

Next up, OCguy agreeing that NATO troops are actually Nazis...

Damn Goosesteppers! :laugh:


I fully support our mission in Afghanistan/Pakistan. If you ever see me say otherwise, I will move to San Francisco, grow a beard and long hair, join the Democratic party and donate to MoveOn.org.

Your support IS appreciated, your knowledge is lacking though and it's be all good if you went with the knowledge you have instead of disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

People get confused with me because i don't do politics, as much as i disagree with Iraq and the reasons i agree with Afghanistan and Pakistan and some people thinks that makes me as support of a US party but then i don't support it and people get confused.

Only thing political that i'll ever say is that Brown is a pussy that needs to go, i really don't give a fuck about Obama or GW except on the support because i rely on that.

I'd also like you to show me where i've been discredited, i sometimes forget about threads i've posted in but people usually remind me via PM, i am not aware about any thread in which i have been discredited though. Perhaps you can supply a link so i can clear that up?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
No I did not compare you to the Nazis per say, I just pointed out you are in denial of the facts of what your actions bring.

Maybe it depend on what innocents are but the following JOS statement strains credibility with "I KNOW for certain that no innocents were killed in the last months bombings"

SHOW me the "denial of facts".

There hasn't been ONE civilian casualty among the last few months strikes and if you listen to dphantom and my hints you might actually understand why.

Innocents don't live in compound where they make bombs or arm people, if you do, you're not a civilian.

 

[Lemon law]

As Common Courtesy notes, " Starting small and building outward is just allowing/ceding control of most of the country to the opponents. That is where we were 7 years ago."

Our problem is, eight years later and that is exactly where we are now, and now the Taliban is knocking at the very gates of Kabul.

We have built exactly nothing to build outward from. And in any typical guerrilla war, Nato can choose to be strong at any given point, but the cost of that is being weak elsewhere.

But if we build something the people deem worth defending, its the way to win. Temporarily having is not holding.

 

[Lemon law]

Ah yes, the circular reasoning "Innocents don't live in compound where they make bombs or arm people"

But sometimes women and children don't have that choice on where to be. Even though they are not making bombs or doing anything hostile.

And where does this compound come from? They lives in houses like the rest of us, even if they are not up to our more opulent standards.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As Common Courtesy notes, " Starting small and building outward is just allowing/ceding control of most of the country to the opponents. That is where we were 7 years ago."

Our problem is, eight years later and that is exactly where we are now, and now the Taliban is knocking at the very gates of Kabul.

We have built exactly nothing to build outward from. And in any typical guerrilla war, Nato can choose to be strong at any given point, but the cost of that is being weak elsewhere.

But if we build something the people deem worth defending, its the way to win. Temporarily having is not holding.

Nothing of what you're saying is correct, other than that, you're right.

The point that people are trying to get you to see is that we need to concentrate on the Taliban and not treat it as a peace keeping mission. It's also what has changed.

You are just anti anything and everything, no viable solution and you even think that people that habitually rape and torture pre pubescent girls are better men than NATO troops who you liken to Nazis.

This is for peace and prosperity of Afghanistan, it's not because we think it's so fucking funny to get shot at.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Just when the government is about to get support to go against the Taliban the USA comes and screws it up. IDIOTS!

You're eight years too late...

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Ah yes, the circular reasoning "Innocents don't live in compound where they make bombs or arm people"

But sometimes women and children don't have that choice on where to be. Even though they are not making bombs or doing anything hostile.

And where does this compound come from? They lives in houses like the rest of us, even if they are not up to our more opulent standards.

Well, they have not been there IN EVEN ONE INSTANCE, NO ONE has claimed that they were, not Pakistan officials and not NATO officials.

The compounds are not houses, i can't tell you exactly where or what they are because i just can't but these are not houses in villages.

You really don't have a fucking clue about any of this, you're just filled with hate against NATO troops and so you keep talking.

This is getting kind of pathetic though, perhaps you should stop before you ... nah, too late, you might as well continue.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Just when the government is about to get support to go against the Taliban the USA comes and screws it up. IDIOTS!

You're eight years too late...

And besides that, the ISI is actively supporting them along with local politicians and paramilitary forces.

But the Green Bean has said before that he wants to live under Taliban rule, at least that would get him off of the net and into the basement, however, i still wouldn't want ANYONE to be under Taliban rule because if you think Gitmos is torture, try bleeding to death from internal wounds to the uterus.

I don't think people who haven't seen it can even imagine the immense cruelty of these swine.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
If his ideas are wrong, then where can you show a working alternative.

Dialog with the Taliban ahs not worked for Pakistan.

Areas that are under Taliban control still have the same problems that existed before we went in.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fair enough question Common Courtesy even though I have covered it before.

1. We need to stay the hell out of Pakistan and Pakistani affairs period. The Taliban or Al-Quida in Pakistan are a Pakistani problem. And at the end of the day, Pakistan has a better track record at stopping both than Nato anyway.

2. We need to lock the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan up. Clear cutting all cover and making sure no cross border traffic is possible except through checkpoints. Remote sensors can detect any sneaking past, let them well into Afghanistan and ambush any Al-Quida and taliban that try, but make sure its on the Afghan side.

3. Then Nato can start to do what it should have done from the start, give the Northern alliance and the corruption they brought the boot. Start building things, get the courts working, deliver the Afghan people a working government they will be proud of, and the Taliban will be defeated without firing a shot. Start at Kabul and build outward, in a war of ideas, the Taliban can offer nothing.

With the exception of the bolded sentence, at least we can agree on most of #3... as for #1 and #2, you may be even more naive about the region than I ever imagined.

And where does this compound come from? They lives in houses like the rest of us, even if they are not up to our more opulent standards.

The locals usually build tall clay/mud walls around a courtyard of some sort. Around these courtyards, and still within the walls, are clay/mud structures with various purposes -- ie. storage, livestock, cooking room, living quarters, etc. The fact that there is more than one functional structure within their walls, including defensive positions, qualifies them as compounds. These compounds don't resemble anything any Westerner would call a "house." And then, there are other types of places they like to meet/hide in as well...

Like I said, you're naive.

I'm still waiting for you to address my challenge above:
Please, in your own words, explain everything you think I am advocating.

 

[JD50]

It never gets old watching JoS and PH school non-lemon law.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: JD50
It never gets old watching JoS and PH school non-lemon law.

maybe for you... lol.

 

[Lemon law]

If only JOS and palehorse would show some positive results, it might be worth going to their school for fools.

It really does not matter what I, or palehorse , or JOS think anyway, what matters is what the Afghan and Pakistani people think.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: palehorse
For LL...
Please, in your own words, explain everything you think I am advocating.

*crickets*

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: palehorse
For LL...
Please, in your own words, explain everything you think I am advocating.

*crickets*

Don't hold your breath.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: palehorse
For LL...
Please, in your own words, explain everything you think I am advocating.

*crickets*

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically you think you can kill all the Taliban, and that seems your actual policy. When challenged you may come up with various me too lip service, but at the end of the day, you have to stand on the record of what you have gotten in terms of results on the ground in eight long years.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: palehorse
For LL...
Please, in your own words, explain everything you think I am advocating.

*crickets*

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically you think you can kill all the Taliban, and that seems your actual policy. When challenged you may come up with various me too lip service, but at the end of the day, you have to stand on the record of what you have gotten in terms of results on the ground in eight long years.

I'm growing very tired of the libel LL.

The following is essentially what I've written and advocated on this subject for years. These strategies have never been implemented to my satisfaction:

Originally posted by: palehorse
My own ideas have never focused solely on a "kill kill kill" strategy. Killing the enemy wherever he sleeps; or, rather, increasing our operations against his safe havens and bases of operation, is only one aspect of what I envision as a multi-pronged solution involving political reconciliation, drug eradication, the elimination of corruption at all levels, and a dramatic increase in money spent on their infrastructure, education, and other ways of improving the effectiveness of the central governments in Kabul and Islamabad. Each and every aspect must be addressed simultaneously, with an equal distribution of resources and effort to tackle all of them.

You've still got those fingers stuck in your fuckin ears son...

 

[Lemon law]

Its all well and fine for palehorse to say, " Each and every aspect must be addressed simultaneously, with an equal distribution of resources and effort to tackle all of them."

The point being, with less than ideal resources we can see what policy palehorse has endorsed and the results we have to show for it. In short, what I said before, more me too cop outs when challenged, but the same sad and sorry results because the policy is and remains, palehorse kill kill kill.

After eight years of bad results, what makes you think year nine will be the charm? And whose is the person who has their hands stuck in their ears Mr. Lack O. Results?

 

[EagleKeeper]

If the resources are not applied, the optimize results can not be obtained.

You work with the tools available and use them to the best that one can.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Its all well and fine for palehorse to say, " Each and every aspect must be addressed simultaneously, with an equal distribution of resources and effort to tackle all of them."

The point being, with less than ideal resources we can see what policy palehorse has endorsed and the results we have to show for it. In short, what I said before, more me too cop outs when challenged, but the same sad and sorry results because the policy is and remains, palehorse kill kill kill.

After eight years of bad results, what makes you think year nine will be the charm? And whose is the person who has their hands stuck in their ears Mr. Lack O. Results?

holy fuckin shit you're dense... wow.

Lemon Law, the King of Libel, has spoken!!

 

[Lemon law]

Gotta agree 100% with Common Courtesy who says, "You work with the tools available and use them to the best that one can."

And even I have to admit that Palehorse might have had a better point if GWB&co had not totally short sheeted him on resources. My questioning military strategy may or may not be misplaced, but idiot #1 is and remains GWB&co and especially Rumsfeld. Blaming our troops for the failures of clueless politicians is some how counter productive.

But sad but true, I lived through Vietnam, I knew many dedicated people who fought in that war, and many dedicated people who opposed that war, yet at the end of the day, those that fought never got that parade for their dedication, while the clueless politicians evaded the blame. At the end of the day, we blamed our soldiers for the failures of Vietnam, and that is a horrible miscarriage of justice even if the outcome may have been inevitable as a bridge too far.