This Mostly White City Wants To Leave Its Mostly Black School District

[chucky2]

I moved from a white neighborhood to a middle class multicultural area. My son previously was in a Catholic middle school and doing fine. He is now big time into drugs and rap and hanging with his friends. He isn't into sports anymore either.

He also had a few run-ins with law enforcement and has been suspended several times from school. A real winner.

Racist!

 

[bshole]

Racist!

There is no one to blame but my son. He is lazy and unmotivated. He is responsible for himself. This isn't about race, this about a entitled kid who doesn't appreciate what he has. This is all about HIM, nobody else.

I let him know him know about drugs and what I thought about them. He has been educated. It is all on him.

Some kids just don't turn out well. This is a well-known phenomena. I still hope he can turn things around but I worry constantly....

 

[bshole]

Racist!

My understanding is that drug use is rampant in high schools EVERYWHERE. This was more of a thing of him moving from middle school to high school.

I specifically chose a multicultural neighborhood to expose my children to people that were different than them. And yes I do wonder if I made a mistake. The problem is that I don't know if my son went off the rails because of the new neighborhood or if he was always destined to go off the rails.

 

[chucky2]

There is no one to blame but my son. He is lazy and unmotivated. He is responsible for himself. This isn't about race, this about a entitled kid who doesn't appreciate what he has. This is all about HIM, nobody else.

I let him know him know about drugs and what I thought about them. He has been educated. It is all on him.

Some kids just don't turn out well. This is a well-known phenomena. I still hope he can turn things around but I worry constantly....

Well, hopefully you ensure he's out of the house at 18/after senior year so he can go White Guilt with his friends. Don't f*ck yourself/other kids up because this one went "multicultural".

 

[chucky2]

My understanding is that drug use is rampant in high schools EVERYWHERE. This was more of a thing of him moving from middle school to high school.

I specifically chose a multicultural neighborhood to expose my children to people that were different than them. And yes I do wonder if I made a mistake. The problem is that I don't know if my son went off the rails because of the new neighborhood or if he was always destined to go off the rails.

You understand that black people (well, the ones that actually care about their kids) literally will move - if they can - to white neighborhoods just so they can get their kids out of the shit hole schools and neighborhoods they're in and into a better place, right? Knowing this, why the f*ck would you move your kid to a lessor area just to experience "multiculturalism"?!?! That's...beyond insane. You wonder if you made a mistake??? I wonder why you're even wondering...gezus...

 

[Puffnstuff]

Why do people continue to blame school for what parents failed to do at home? Parents are the first line of defense when it comes to children and their attitudes towards anything in life as they learn their biases at home first. If parents don't care and the kids know it then they will also tend to reflect a similar attitude. Children who have legitimate hindrances to learning should be identified early and placed in a special program that address these issues by altering the learning style to meet their needs. Normal students do not need to be penalized by these underperformers.

My youngest son had issues in school and his grades suffered but his mother was terminally ill and he had to deal with the knowledge that she was going to die on a daily basis. Once she passed and the stress was lifted he began to pull out of it and returned to being an A/B student. There was nothing that school could do to address his situation and I had to help him as a parent which is my job and I was working rotating shifts raising them. Stop placing blame in the wrong place and stop demanding that schools lower their standards so kids with low standards won't have to step up their game to pass.

 

[interchange]

I specifically chose a multicultural neighborhood to expose my children to people that were different than them. And yes I do wonder if I made a mistake. The problem is that I don't know if my son went off the rails because of the new neighborhood or if he was always destined to go off the rails.

Are you able to talk to him about this? You seem basically to be a good person, as my dad was, but it took a long time for me to reconcile my differences with him enough to have a good relationship. But much of my appreciation for him still has come since he has passed. My differences were not the same as yours and your son, but I think there is hope that things can improve nonetheless. Our frontal lobes keep developing until ~age 25. Until then, our ability to know better does not readily connect to our ability to act better. Sometimes our need for supporting our identities with like-minded peers usurps our basic values. Maybe he wants your support more than you think.

 

[agent00f]

This is a sideways answer to my post, but nonetheless it is worthy. I agree with your framework as part of the answer. This provides the impetus for this kind of generalized rationalizations. But that motivation is ever present in all of us when looking at any grouping of individuals different than us. The protection from it is not simply awareness that it is a fallacy (else you would have been protected from application to the generalization of conservatives), but rather from maintaining an identification with the other garnered from experience.

It's only natural to generalize about all sorts of things. Whatever virtue or fallacy stems from the method/specifics of categorization. For example, the white-country crowd categorize themselves with the western liberal thinkers who laid some foundations for modern civilization, when really they're close counterparts to low common denominator islamists.

In this case, "conservative" is a similar self-identified group, which is somewhat more valid since it's directly associated with a political party and its rhetoric that members toe. Accurate identification and discernment of categories a la empiricism is essential to understanding the world for what it is.

In any event, you should know that I have a lot of respect for you. On this site, you are a veritable paragon of reason and logical accountability, striving for an ideal vision of self that is balanced and not driven by ambition. You remind me a lot of Thomas Jefferson. Like him, you are quite progressive in your values and recognize the power of your skills. You are quite good at practicing along your ideals. Better than me, and certainly better than me when I learned that shedding my humanity to achieve these ideals was the wrong path.

Unfortunately, the man who penned the words "all men are created equal" also owned and utilize hundreds of slaves. He treated them much more fairly than others, and advocated for their eventual freedom, but still inherently recognized them as an inferior man.

I am hopeful that you can transform your striving to achieve this ideal (and thus tying the integrity of your identity to your perceived success in this matter) instead to a value that complements the remainder of your humanity. Our humanity is the best of us. You need not see it in conflict with the goodness you possess and strive to see in yourself. I am only human, too. I've had more success integrating that ideal realistically in my life, though, by embracing how the rest of me made me destined to fall short of it. Free your slaves.

Personally I find that only with some emotional distance is it possible to gain the requisite understanding of the situation/problems. For example, in order to solve the white-country problem it's essential to break the white identity narrative, and associate the various subgroups with their proper standing. This isn't just directed at conservatives but also many liberals who have very naive notions about the goodness of "fellow americans" who'd just as soon sell them down the river for prospects at more state welfare.

I suppose from a third-party perspective this cold analysis of people dehumanizes all involved, but it's arguable that many of history's follies came from fulfilling the set of genetic instincts that supposedly makes us human. Nonetheless, I'll keep your advice in mind to see what difference it might make for better or worse.

 

[agent00f]

Don't worry, the funny thing is, this loser doesn't really know who he/she/it is either...it's one of things I appreciate about it posting.

You don't do much to distinguish yourself from the run of the mill white power advocated whose only worth is predicated on identifying with thinkers who don't think much of you.

But regardless it says a lot when the other conservatives here identify more with you than those dastardly centrists. Be sure to gloat about this to make them feel at home.

 

[agent00f]

I gathered that much, just didn't know who he thought this guy was/is. Doesn't really matter. It is a little hinky him suddenly making an account and posting so much, in a certain way. I'm not advocating banning of anyone, just voicing my opinion.

He's extremely corrosive to these forums. Tossing out the race card so often, and when it'd not even valid. Using racists terms all the time. Constantly doing that actually keeps racism on the forefront. It makes it more of a problem than it should be. He's part of the race problem, not the answer he sees himself as. Just like when media inserts race when they don't need to, stoking the fires because its good for clicks. Keep insulting a certain type of people, blanket calling them white supremacist and the like. I'm sure he sees himself as some righteous fighter doling out truth to people lesser than him. To me it just seems pathetic. But that's enough, keeping on about it gives him what he wants, and I'm done doing that.

I gather you identify with chucky and don't consider him or friends racist much. The problem here can't be more obvious, even if it's in your interest to be willfully ignorant of it.

 

[bshole]

Are you able to talk to him about this? You seem basically to be a good person, as my dad was, but it took a long time for me to reconcile my differences with him enough to have a good relationship. But much of my appreciation for him still has come since he has passed. My differences were not the same as yours and your son, but I think there is hope that things can improve nonetheless. Our frontal lobes keep developing until ~age 25. Until then, our ability to know better does not readily connect to our ability to act better. Sometimes our need for supporting our identities with like-minded peers usurps our basic values. Maybe he wants your support more than you think.

In many ways he is more like my brothers than me. They weren't interested in school, he isn't interested in school. They were of average intelligence, he is of average intelligence.

He has four very strong positives, he is a gifted public speaker (I have had numerous teachers mention this to me - he was the commencement speaker for his grade school), he is a natural leader (his friends follow him), he has a TREMENDOUS amount of self-confidence and he has strong empathy for those different than himself and those that are picked on by others. In all of those areas I am EXTREMELY weak. All my strengths are his weaknesses and my weaknesses are his strengths. He is like the opposite of me.

Just so you know. his encounters with the law were minor and occurred last year. I believe his drug use is limited to pot. I tried to intervene last year and it did was to weaken his trust in me. I realize that route won't work as it did not work on my brother (he was rebel). He does not bear animosity towards me. We don't fight or argue. I am just anguished to see all this potential flushed down the toilet and about a son who may not be self-sufficient adult.

 

[interchange]

Personally I find that only with some emotional distance is it possible to gain the requisite understanding of the situation/problems. For example, in order to solve the white-country problem it's essential to break the white identity narrative, and associate the various subgroups with their proper standing. This isn't just directed at conservatives but also many liberals who have very naive notions about the goodness of "fellow americans" who'd just as soon sell them down the river for prospects at more state welfare.

I suppose from a third-party perspective this cold analysis of people dehumanizes all involved, but it's arguable that many of history's follies came from fulfilling the set of genetic instincts that supposedly makes us human. Nonetheless, I'll keep your advice in mind to see what difference it might make for better or worse.

That kind of neutrality is indeed very useful, and it is something that continually frustrates me as many people don't seem to understand or care to strive for it.

It reminds me of the stance of Anna Freud, who argued that neutrality meant taking a position equidistant from the ego, id, and superego.

We're not doing psychoanalysis, so I don't think those agencies exactly apply. But I do think each of us are capable of looking at things from a variety of different lenses, and we are susceptible to idealizing one lens or another. When we idealize something, we have to devalue another. This tends to create a false conflict between the two, when in reality a neutral position with some distance between two different views is more powerful. The lenses that we devalue are usually tied to intense negative emotional memories from our distant past -- the very traumas that @Moonbeam likes to reference. But we are no longer children. As adults, very often we have surpassed the conflict and are fearing a memory, but otherwise we at least have more tools now to confront something we were powerless to work on before.

Maybe that's a lot of rambling. I feel there is more to you than you realize, and you are devaluing something to your own detriment, and I wonder if you are doing so when it is no longer even necessary.

 

[interchange]

In many ways he is more like my brothers than me. They weren't interested in school, he isn't interested in school. They were of average intelligence, he is of average intelligence.

He has four very strong positives, he is a gifted public speaker (I have had numerous teachers mention this to me - he was the commencement speaker for his grade school), he is a natural leader (his friends follow him), he has a TREMENDOUS amount of self-confidence and he has strong empathy for those different than himself and those that are picked on by others. In all of those areas I am EXTREMELY weak. All my strengths are his weaknesses and my weaknesses are his strengths. He is like the opposite of me.

Just so you know. his encounters with the law were minor and occurred last year. I believe his drug use is limited to pot. I tried to intervene last year and it did was to weaken his trust in me. I realize that route won't work as it did not work on my brother (he was rebel). He does not bear animosity towards me. We don't fight or argue. I am just anguished to see all this potential flushed down the toilet and about a son who may not be self-sufficient adult.

My son will turn 3 next month, and already I am challenged to even imagine taking 1 step in your shoes. That would be a lot to grieve.

You did mention his strength in empathy. I am wondering if he could use that and understand both your appreciation for his strengths and your fear of his choices destroying his life. Even if his behavior did not change, would you think it worthwhile to have those feelings validated by him?

 

[agent00f]

That kind of neutrality is indeed very useful, and it is something that continually frustrates me as many people don't seem to understand or care to strive for it.

It reminds me of the stance of Anna Freud, who argued that neutrality meant taking a position equidistant from the ego, id, and superego.

We're not doing psychoanalysis, so I don't think those agencies exactly apply. But I do think each of us are capable of looking at things from a variety of different lenses, and we are susceptible to idealizing one lens or another. When we idealize something, we have to devalue another. This tends to create a false conflict between the two, when in reality a neutral position with some distance between two different views is more powerful.

If we're still talking about american conservatism, in its currently incarnation it's pretty clearly incompatible with western liberal democracy, though it's understandable why many choose not to recognize this. That's simply fact of the matter not really changed by abstract principles of ideals and value. Eg, one can value liberal democracy or not, but that has no bearing on the reality of GOP/Trump. This is the neural/factual position, not to be confused with the centrist one.

But I acknowledge what you're saying about value of understanding other perspectives in conflict resolution. Funny enough, when I sometimes mimic the mindset of the group in question, I'm informed it's hella racist, which doesn't do them any favors.

The lenses that we devalue are usually tied to intense negative emotional memories from our distant past -- the very traumas that @Moonbeam likes to reference. But we are no longer children. As adults, very often we have surpassed the conflict and are fearing a memory, but otherwise we at least have more tools now to confront something we were powerless to work on before.

Maybe that's a lot of rambling. I feel there is more to you than you realize, and you are devaluing something to your own detriment, and I wonder if you are doing so when it is no longer even necessary.

I actually don't remember most of my childhood up to maybe 7 and hardly reminiscence much. If anything I'd say the last few years of life always shape me more so than those before, though I suspect that may be atypical.

In any case, it's interesting to see how individuals react when faced with a grim reality. I find liberals tend to argue the case. While conservatives will often say anything to avoid doing so--perhaps we can probe what went on when they were kids to explain the rather degenerate behavior. This is nearly universal, as evidenced in the comment archive, which implies the categorizations are accurate & useful. Though personally I've always seen this division as a fundamental neuro/psych difference; there seems a range of mentalities useful to the survival of the species, and it makes perfect sense differing ones form fitting ideals for themselves & peers. I believe Moonbeam touches on that sometimes, too.

 

[interchange]

But I acknowledge what you're saying about value of understanding other perspectives in conflict resolution. Funny enough, when I sometimes mimic the mindset of the group in question, I'm informed it's hella racist, which doesn't do them any favors.

I had departed from talking about specifically liberals and conservatives, but using example can help. As for the experience in working through the mindset of others, I think you've found your real motivation to combat it through reason. It might help to ponder, then, why their experience doesn't lead them to the information that it's hella racist, or I think more accurately, what else about that experience is appealing enough to ward off the feeling that it's hella racist. Personally I don't think it is some reason deficit.

I actually don't remember most of my childhood up to maybe 7 and hardly reminiscence much. If anything I'd say the last few years of life always shape me more so than those before, though I suspect that may be atypical.

Atypical? Not sure. I had done much the same in my life and hadn't put much thought into that until I began to appreciate the reasons why.

In any case, it's interesting to see how individuals react when faced with a grim reality. I find liberals tend to argue the case. While conservatives will often say anything to avoid doing so--perhaps we can probe what went on when they were kids to explain the rather degenerate behavior. This is nearly universal, as evidenced in the comment archive, which implies the categorizations are accurate & useful. Though personally I've always seen this division as a fundamental neuro/psych difference; there seems a range of mentalities useful to the survival of the species, and it makes perfect sense differing ones form fitting ideals for themselves & peers. I believe Moonbeam touches on that sometimes, too.

Here's how I see it:
Firstly, grim reality to me is defined as something that, if accepted, destabilizes a person's sense of who they are. Thus, while there is commonality in things that are likely to be grim, it is still very individual.

Everyone has a library that contains books on ways to protect themselves from grim reality. That library is generally very diverse, but there are certain books which are in easy reach and better written for different people.

People, though, won't try to ward off grim reality alone unless they have no choice. Thus, even if it's not the most accessible book or best written book, they'll pick a book that other people are reading if they can find safety in identifying with that group.

Of course, people also tend to choose groups that read books they like.

Having read War and Peace, you might understand how it is the best book to use for the grim realities you wish others would confront, but unless they work with intent to reorganize their library and exchange old titles, seeing how monstrous War and Peace is compared to their own selections will only push them to revere The Very Hungry Caterpillar more.

But, The Very Hungry Caterpillar is still a good book. I bet it's in your library somewhere in the back. Dust it off from time to time.

 

[Puffnstuff]

My son will turn 3 next month, and already I am challenged to even imagine taking 1 step in your shoes. That would be a lot to grieve.

You did mention his strength in empathy. I am wondering if he could use that and understand both your appreciation for his strengths and your fear of his choices destroying his life. Even if his behavior did not change, would you think it worthwhile to have those feelings validated by him?

You are in the nurture years and as a father I would recommend that you spend lots of time establishing a baseline behavior for him to follow especially in the areas of right and wrong and to respect others. Both of my sons learned early on to respect people of all ages and races so they hold no biases against any one group and go by a persons character and actions.. I taught my boys to think for themselves early on and allowed them to make their own decisions on many things to help them grow this ability. I also refrained from interfering in their relationships to allow them to work things out so they could learn from the experiences. Parents who tend to overreach in this area hinder their children's ability to interact with others and is something that I see happening with children who attend private religious schools more so than anything else.

 

[interchange]

You are in the nurture years and as a father I would recommend that you spend lots of time establishing a baseline behavior for him to follow especially in the areas of right and wrong and to respect others. Both of my sons learned early on to respect people of all ages and races so they hold no biases against any one group and go by a persons character and actions.. I taught my boys to think for themselves early on and allowed them to make their own decisions on many things to help them grow this ability. I also refrained from interfering in their relationships to allow them to work things out so they could learn from the experiences. Parents who tend to overreach in this area hinder their children's ability to interact with others and is something that I see happening with children who attend private religious schools more so than anything else.

Thanks. That last part I think is the most important, and also the hardest to honor.

 

[agent00f]

I had departed from talking about specifically liberals and conservatives, but using example can help. As for the experience in working through the mindset of others, I think you've found your real motivation to combat it through reason. It might help to ponder, then, why their experience doesn't lead them to the information that it's hella racist, or I think more accurately, what else about that experience is appealing enough to ward off the feeling that it's hella racist. Personally I don't think it is some reason deficit.

You might recall some mention of the argument that human language evolved not because of reason, but due to efforts to convince others. A primary message communicated is our own goodness (ie trustworthiness, etc), which is why nobody really says they're bad/untrustworthy.

It's a currently established belief that racism is bad, thus the most brutish/simple minds just repeat they are not that bad thing. It has little to do with the fact of the matter, much less reasoning about it.

Atypical? Not sure. I had done much the same in my life and hadn't put much thought into that until I began to appreciate the reasons why.

I've put some thought into it some years back, and last night; not sure what can be gleamed from a relatively uneventful childhood when far more formative/transformative years followed.

The larger point here stems from the observation that most people simply don't change much out except from exceptional extraneous circumstances. In fact, failing to change despite a will to is the common case. And I might add that many here are rather proud of what they are, only adding to the already great inertia.

Here's how I see it:
Firstly, grim reality to me is defined as something that, if accepted, destabilizes a person's sense of who they are. Thus, while there is commonality in things that are likely to be grim, it is still very individual.

Everyone has a library that contains books on ways to protect themselves from grim reality. That library is generally very diverse, but there are certain books which are in easy reach and better written for different people.

People, though, won't try to ward off grim reality alone unless they have no choice. Thus, even if it's not the most accessible book or best written book, they'll pick a book that other people are reading if they can find safety in identifying with that group.

Of course, people also tend to choose groups that read books they like.

Having read War and Peace, you might understand how it is the best book to use for the grim realities you wish others would confront, but unless they work with intent to reorganize their library and exchange old titles, seeing how monstrous War and Peace is compared to their own selections will only push them to revere The Very Hungry Caterpillar more.

But, The Very Hungry Caterpillar is still a good book. I bet it's in your library somewhere in the back. Dust it off from time to time.

First, I think it's established that I'm aware of the burden of one's own upraising. I know a couple of very intelligent and imo accomplished people who used to single issue vote republican on abortion because they were raised religious. Beautiful minds capable of immense abstract reasoning, yet cannot be sway to certain scientific realities. But it seems that historical deadweight is only ever lightening, as seen in the massive inversion of the educated vs non- vote in this election; double digit flips not seen since civil rights. What used to be the geographic/cultural environment of where one was born is mitigated by increasing mobility and brain drain away from the backwoods, both literally and figuratively.

Second, I realize much of what's been said about american conservatism is unkind, mostly because that was the intent. There's a choice here whether to reveal the brutish nature behind where the country's veering, or continue to pamper it hoping for the best, esp when its adherent act like spoiled brats. It doesn't seem to me the solution is to pretending that Breitbart.com is library material given the point of greater civilization is to outgrow it.

 

[chucky2]

You don't do much to distinguish yourself from the run of the mill white power advocated whose only worth is predicated on identifying with thinkers who don't think much of you.

But regardless it says a lot when the other conservatives here identify more with you than those dastardly centrists. Be sure to gloat about this to make them feel at home.

It's like each time you post you reach a little further down and bring up a new FailPost to entertain us with. Please, don't change, I'm liking the fresh trolling schtick. It's even better when you get other Intellectuals and Libtards to provide content, sort of a like a surprise guest comic! Er...was that your intent too? LOL

 

[agent00f]

It's like each time you post you reach a little further down and bring up a new FailPost to entertain us with. Please, don't change, I'm liking the fresh trolling schtick. It's even better when you get other Intellectuals and Libtards to provide content, sort of a like a surprise guest comic! Er...was that your intent too? LOL

It's a good thing someone's providing content other than how much this is a white country plus this and that about libards.

 

[compuwiz1]

It's a good thing someone's providing content other than how much this is a white country plus this and that about libards.

As an observation, you bash and call out white people more than any other member of the forums. You seem to enjoy doing that. From this, I can only conclude that you are a non-white, with a hard on for whites. Being a white person, which is widely known here, if I called out and bashed non-whites, I would be banned out of here, as a racist, but not you. That's a double standard. You wonder why I asked if you were white? I had good reason to ask that question. You have displayed blatant bigotry and racism toward white people on this forum. You have race baited as well. Your racial trolling is unacceptable!

 

[Puffnstuff]

Hey I'm not white and I believe in protecting a schools academic integrity from substandard expectations and if breaking free from a predominately nonwhite school system is required to do it then go for it. The children being affected are the top priority and their educational needs have to be job one. To the other students I say step up your game and break free from mediocrity which can be difficult if you're surrounded by it at home.

 

[agent00f]

As an observation, you bash and call out white people more than any other member of the forums. You seem to enjoy doing that. From this, I can only conclude that you are a non-white, with a hard on for whites. Being a white person, which is widely known here, if I called out and bashed non-whites, I would be banned out of here, as a racist, but not you. That's a double standard. You wonder why I asked if you were white? I had good reason to ask that question. You have displayed blatant bigotry and racism toward white people on this forum. You have race baited as well. Your racial trolling is unacceptable!

Always comical when the racists pretend that exposing their mindset is the Real racism. The "white establishment" are the Real victims, amiright? No doubt you'll have trouble identifying where that comes from, too.

Also comical that you found the color button, presumably because the cap lock broke. I'd make a joke about something against black text and white was too hard to read, but you don't seem the joke/reading comprehension type.

 

[Victorian Gray]

As an observation, you bash and call out white people more than any other member of the forums. You seem to enjoy doing that. From this, I can only conclude that you are a non-white, with a hard on for whites. Being a white person, which is widely known here, if I called out and bashed non-whites, I would be banned out of here, as a racist, but not you. That's a double standard. You wonder why I asked if you were white? I had good reason to ask that question. You have displayed blatant bigotry and racism toward white people on this forum. You have race baited as well. Your racial trolling is unacceptable!

Does the light blue coloured font mean something? I find it hard to read.

 

[compuwiz1]

Always comical when the racists pretend that exposing their mindset is the Real racism. The "white establishment" are the Real victims, amiright? No doubt you'll have trouble identifying where that comes from, too.

Also comical that you found the color button, presumably because the cap lock broke. I'd make a joke about something against black text and white was too hard to read, but you don't seem the joke/reading comprehension type.

And....the race card gets thrown at me again. I'd love to post pictures of my family here, but I won't, because I won't draw them into this. At this Christmas dinner, I will be the only white person at the table. Asians, Mexicans and Black relatives, all in total 18 + me. Yeah, that probably makes this patriarch a racist...