This is why the Democrats cannot - will not - "negotiate"

[werepossum]

Don't forget, it takes two to tango.

Both sides are playing heavy politics here, and that is the status quo.

Same old same old.

This whole thing is too stupid to not be a distraction from something else. Repubs are completely stupid for taking it this far and Dems are completely stupid for taking it this far.

Starting to hear through the woodwork that default is actually a legit concern from people far smarter than I. That is scary.

I still put chance of default at 11tybillion to 1 against.

All true. The Democrats have been essentially been doing the same thing since they lost the House, forcing the Pubbies to accept continuing resolutions or shut down the government. In effect, they have forced the Republicans to continue using the Democrat House/Democrat Senate/Democrat President budgets and continue funding government at bail-out levels. The Pubbies revolted once and got tax cut extensions and again and got sequester cuts, but we're still at near bail-out spending. Only big problem I have with this is that they are doing it after the Democrat-controlled Senate finally passed a budget, and by ignoring it the GOP Representatives are not doing their jobs. The Democrats not doing their job for three years does not give the Republicans license to not do theirs now.

Well, maybe two big problems. If they are gunning for Obamacare, they have a duty to recognize its good parts and put in place replacements before ripping them away from people who need them.

 

[fskimospy]

All true. The Democrats have been essentially been doing the same thing since they lost the House, forcing the Pubbies to accept continuing resolutions or shut down the government. In effect, they have forced the Republicans to continue using the Democrat House/Democrat Senate/Democrat President budgets and continue funding government at bail-out levels. The Pubbies revolted once and got tax cut extensions and again and got sequester cuts, but we're still at near bail-out spending. Only big problem I have with this is that they are doing it after the Democrat-controlled Senate finally passed a budget, and by ignoring it the GOP Representatives are not doing their jobs. The Democrats not doing their job for three years does not give the Republicans license to not do theirs now.

Well, maybe two big problems. If they are gunning for Obamacare, they have a duty to recognize its good parts and put in place replacements before ripping them away from people who need them.

2014 Paul Ryan budget spending: $967 billion.
2014 Continuing Resolution adopted by the Senate: $986 billion.

The current Senate resolution for 2014 contains less than 2% more spending than what the House endorsed as its dream budget. Interesting that "funding the government at bailout levels" is basically equal to "funding the government at the House endorsed Paul Ryan budget levels".

 

[Juddog]

2014 Paul Ryan budget spending: $967 billion.
2014 Continuing Resolution adopted by the Senate: $986 billion.

The current Senate resolution for 2014 contains less than 2% more spending than what the House endorsed as its dream budget. Interesting that "funding the government at bailout levels" is basically equal to "funding the government at the House endorsed Paul Ryan budget levels".

It's no different than Obamacare basically being a national version of Romneycare, but since it's a dem that pushed it, it's horrible OMG evil socialist, but when a Republican does the exact same thing it's amazing.

 

[fskimospy]

It's no different than Obamacare basically being a national version of Romneycare, but since it's a dem that pushed it, it's horrible OMG evil socialist, but when a Republican does the exact same thing it's amazing.

It seems to be more of a case of a media bubble where conservatives simply aren't exposed to contrary viewpoints or when they do encounter them they are dismissed as being biased or part of a conspiracy against them.

You can see it right now with the debt ceiling. Against universal expert opinion, conservatives are busy convincing themselves that breaching the debt ceiling won't be that bad.

 

[BUnit1701]

It's no different than Obamacare basically being a national version of Romneycare, but since it's a dem that pushed it, it's horrible OMG evil socialist, but when a Republican does the exact same thing it's amazing.

Yea, there's no chance that is a reason 'teahdists' didn't come out in force for Romney... 4 Million registered Republicans who voted in 2008 for McCain didn't vote at all in 2012. You all dont seem to separate conservative ideology and the Republican party. While the two are allied, they are not one and the same.

 

[werepossum]

2014 Paul Ryan budget spending: $967 billion.
2014 Continuing Resolution adopted by the Senate: $986 billion.

The current Senate resolution for 2014 contains less than 2% more spending than what the House endorsed as its dream budget. Interesting that "funding the government at bailout levels" is basically equal to "funding the government at the House endorsed Paul Ryan budget levels".

Interesting that it's "only 2% more" to add it, but the end of the world to cut it. Hmm, almost like there's some systematic dishonesty factored in there. As for Ryan's budget, it isn't anyone's "dream budget". It's what they think they can sell.

 

[dainthomas]

Yea, there's no chance that is a reason 'teahdists' didn't come out in force for Romney... 4 Million registered Republicans who voted in 2008 for McCain didn't vote at all in 2012. You all dont seem to separate conservative ideology and the Republican party. While the two are allied, they are not one and the same.

The Republicans need to jetison the tea party. The ultra-conservative wing has been an anchor for them the last several years.

 

[fskimospy]

Interesting that it's "only 2% more" to add it, but the end of the world to cut it. Hmm, almost like there's some systematic dishonesty factored in there. As for Ryan's budget, it isn't anyone's "dream budget". It's what they think they can sell.

There is definitely some dishonesty going on here. Some people are trying to claim that a budget that funds the government at 2% higher levels than the House's stated preference is equivalent to republicans being forced to fund the government at "bailout levels".

We are for the most part already funding the governed at republican preferred levels. What is funny and sad about this is that despite getting their way almost entirely on spending all they can do is whine about how others won't compromise.

 

[nehalem256]

There is definitely some dishonesty going on here. Some people are trying to claim that a budget that funds the government at 2% higher levels than the House's stated preference is equivalent to republicans being forced to fund the government at "bailout levels".

We are for the most part already funding the governed at republican preferred levels. What is funny and sad about this is that despite getting their way almost entirely on spending all they can do is whine about how others won't compromise.

You mean like how you are ignoring 75% of the federal budget?:hmm:

 

[glenn1]

The Republicans need to jetison the tea party. The ultra-conservative wing has been an anchor for them the last several years.

You could say the same thing with the ultra-liberal wing of the Democratic Party for the last few decades, and yet you're not calling on them to get dumped. Advising people to tack towards the political center is advice never taken by those who offer it. It's always the "other party" who needs to change.

 

[glenn1]

There is definitely some dishonesty going on here. Some people are trying to claim that a budget that funds the government at 2% higher levels than the House's stated preference is equivalent to republicans being forced to fund the government at "bailout levels".

We are for the most part already funding the governed at republican preferred levels. What is funny and sad about this is that despite getting their way almost entirely on spending all they can do is whine about how others won't compromise.

Well then coming down the extra 2% shouldn't be that much of a concession for your side then, eh? I'll wait for you to advocate that as the Democratic bargaining position and you can claim the high ground of playing the role of "adult" in all this.

 

[fskimospy]

You mean like how you are ignoring 75% of the federal budget?:hmm:

Nope.

 

[glenn1]

Looks like Obama just called Boehner to negotiate. Should be an interesting news conference at 2pm. I bet Obama doesn't last the rest of the week without offering concessions. He has caved before, and he's going to again.

 

[IGBT]

the debt velocity is too great. what ever number they agree on..it won't be enough.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Looks like Obama just called Boehner to negotiate[url]. Should be an interesting news conference at 2pm.

I don't think there will be much negotiation especially now that GOP Reps. are contradicting Boehner saying there ARE enough votes in the house to pass a clean CR.

 

[glenn1]

I don't think there will be much negotiation especially now that GOP Reps. are contradicting Boehner saying there ARE enough votes in the house to pass a clean CR.

Too bad it can't come to a vote unless the Speaker agrees to it.

 

[fskimospy]

Too bad it can't come to a vote unless the Speaker agrees to it.

Nope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discharge_petition

While that is unlikely to happen now as this goes on I imagine a discharge petition will become more likely.

 

[glenn1]

Nope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discharge_petition

While that is unlikely to happen now as this goes on I imagine a discharge petition will become more likely.

From your link:

A discharge petition may only be brought after a measure has sat in committee for at least 30 legislative days[4] without being reported; if the matter is considered as a special rule to the Rules Committee, then the period is seven days instead. Once the requisite number of signatures is reached, the petition is placed on the Discharge Calendar, which is privileged business on the second and fourth Mondays of each month.


So has the Continuing Resolution "sat in committee" for 30 days?

 

[fskimospy]

From your link:

A discharge petition may only be brought after a measure has sat in committee for at least 30 legislative days[4] without being reported; if the matter is considered as a special rule to the Rules Committee, then the period is seven days instead. Once the requisite number of signatures is reached, the petition is placed on the Discharge Calendar, which is privileged business on the second and fourth Mondays of each month.


So has the Continuing Resolution "sat in committee" for 30 days?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...o-force-republicans-to-reopen-the-government/

 

[Dannar26]

Nerf red, buff blue!

Only 'tards roll red. Duh! Blue is superior in every way.

 

[JTsyo]

You could say the same thing with the ultra-liberal wing of the Democratic Party for the last few decades, and yet you're not calling on them to get dumped. Advising people to tack towards the political center is advice never taken by those who offer it. It's always the "other party" who needs to change.

If the ultra-left wing was a factor in Congress, then we would waiting for fracking to be outlawed before we hit the debt ceiling.

 

[werepossum]

You mean like how you are ignoring 75% of the federal budget?:hmm:

LOL Exactly.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_2000_2018USb_15s1li111mcn_F0f

EDIT: It's worth pointing out that our yearly deficit alone in 2012 was $1,276,000,000,000. Not our spending - that was roughly $3.5 trillion. But there's no point in arguing with fundamentally dishonest people.

 

[fskimospy]

LOL Exactly.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_2000_2018USb_15s1li111mcn_F0f

Total federal expenditures under the Ryan plan, FY2014: $3.53 trillion.
Total projected expenditures per CBO, FY2014: $3.62 trillion.

Total difference: 2.5%.

So again, I'm interested to hear about how the poor Republicans have been forced into this by Democrats making them keep funding at "bailout levels"... which apparently are the Paul Ryan plan +2.5%.

Either our good friend Paul Ryan is a bailout fanatic, forcing his views on the poor Republican House conference, or maybe the shtick about forcing funding at 'bailout levels' is hysterical nonsense.

 

[fskimospy]

LOL Exactly.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_2000_2018USb_15s1li111mcn_F0f

EDIT: It's worth pointing out that our yearly deficit alone in 2012 was $1,276,000,000,000. Not our spending - that was roughly $3.5 trillion. But there's no point in arguing with fundamentally dishonest people.

Why are you using FY2012 as opposed to FY2013, which is the most recent completed fiscal year? The deficit for FY2013 was approximately $750 billion. (according to the most recent estimate I can find)

It's worth pointing out that werepossum either likes to use out of date data for no reason I can discern, was too dumb to realize he was using out of date data, or is a fundamentally dishonest person.

 

[glenn1]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...o-force-republicans-to-reopen-the-government/

Too bad the discharge petition has no GOP votes, including those who said they would favor passing a "clean" CR. It won't clear fillibuster in Senate, and it won't get majority in the House. And even now, it would take 7 days to pass in the Senate even if the fillibuster could be overcome, not leaving any time for the House to pass it before debt ceiling was reached.

I love the smell of "no compromise" in the morning.