Discussion This is why retail businesses don't succeed in America without heavy markups..

[brycejones]

We're already paying for that. Prisons already exist and already have staff. The whole point is to keep dangerous people off the streets. Most of this theft and crime is done by the same people over and over, it's not like they have to jail tens of thousands of people. It's dumb to just let theft continue and not punish it and protect property owners from it, when we pay all these taxes, which part of it is suppose to be to keep our streets safer.

The more people you lock up the more prisons cost. But maybe you can try the great American experiment and roll with private prisons.

 

[KMFJD]

don't try to argue with the feels and vibe based facts from the north, you'll get beaten down by stupid folksy wisdom

 

[brycejones]

don't try to argue with the feels and vibe based facts from the north, you'll get beaten down by stupid folksy wisdom

You can’t shake a liter of maple syrup at that logic.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Red Squirrel imaginary world is a Utopia filled with only perfection where nobody does anything wrong. It's almost like he's an 8 year old, who has no clue about the real world or reality in general, where he thinks his mother's hugs is the answer to all the bad things that happen.

 

[fskimospy]

We're already paying for that. Prisons already exist and already have staff. The whole point is to keep dangerous people off the streets. Most of this theft and crime is done by the same people over and over, it's not like they have to jail tens of thousands of people. It's dumb to just let theft continue and not punish it and protect property owners from it, when we pay all these taxes, which part of it is suppose to be to keep our streets safer.

The US currently has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world and you want to make it even higher?

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[brycejones]

The US currently has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world and you want to make it even higher?

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Clearly whatever the US has done to combat drugs has worked amazingly well so of course he wants to bring those amazing policies to Canada.

 

[iRONic]

They are gonna be our 51st state shortly. The felon-in-chief will do the same thing the Australians did to Tasmania…

 

[darkswordsman17]

The options basically are 1) sell them overseas to people with sufficient expertise to unbrick them 2) sell them for parts 3) sell them to morons who do not know they are bricked.

Apple netted almost 100B in profit in 2023. They do not give a fuck about this.

For #2, even that isn't likely as Apple is now IDing individual components and DRMing it so that it has to pass a check when you put in a replacement part, so they'll flag the parts in the devices and they won't be able to be used for that even.

 

[manly]

Apple does DRM some components, but what @K1052 described is correct. A bunch of stolen iPhones end up in a particular neighborhood in Shenzhen, China. People joke that they're being returned literally to their birthplace.

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/r9m2bk/stolen_iphone_ending_up_in_huafa_rd_shenzhen

 

[Red Squirrel]

The more people you lock up the more prisons cost. But maybe you can try the great American experiment and roll with private prisons.

So your solution is to just let criminals roam free then? Isin't it you guys that keep celebrating every time a J6 protester goes to jail? Bunch of hypocrites.

 

[brycejones]

So your solution is to just let criminals roam free then? Isin't it you guys that keep celebrating every time a J6 protester goes to jail? Bunch of hypocrites.

Nope, just pointing out the flaw in your earlier statement that prisons were already paid for. There is an incremental cost for every person you lock up.

 

[fskimospy]

So your solution is to just let criminals roam free then? Isin't it you guys that keep celebrating every time a J6 protester goes to jail? Bunch of hypocrites.

So to be clear you think the country with the highest incarceration rate in the developed world is not imprisoning enough people.

Correct?

 

[Red Squirrel]

So to be clear you think the country with the highest incarceration rate in the developed world is not imprisoning enough people.

Correct?

They are imprisoning the wrong people. You mess up on your taxes, or download an MP3, or perform some other victimless crime, or defend yourself from a criminal, or have a gram of weed on you, get 25 years. You steal physical goods and do thousands of dollars of damage to a small business, you get nothing. Maybe they need to better prioritize what crimes lead to jail time and which ones are just a fine.

Also jail doesn't have to be that expensive, they could make things more efficient. It shouldn't cost any more than someone that's on welfare, or all the money they send to other countries or countless other programs that they spend tons of money on that accomplish nothing of value. Protecting people that actually live in the country should be a priority.

I also think the entire jail system should be more focused on rehabilitation instead of punishment, but that's a whole other story. Problem is lot of these people don't want to change. They enjoy that lifestyle.

 

[feralkid]

Hoo boy.

 

[NWRMidnight]

They are imprisoning the wrong people. You mess up on your taxes, or download an MP3, or perform some other victimless crime, or defend yourself from a criminal, or have a gram of weed on you, get 25 years. You steal physical goods and do thousands of dollars of damage to a small business, you get nothing. Maybe they need to better prioritize what crimes lead to jail time and which ones are just a fine.

Also jail doesn't have to be that expensive, they could make things more efficient. It shouldn't cost any more than someone that's on welfare, or all the money they send to other countries or countless other programs that they spend tons of money on that accomplish nothing of value. Protecting people that actually live in the country should be a priority.

I also think the entire jail system should be more focused on rehabilitation instead of punishment, but that's a whole other story. Problem is lot of these people don't want to change. They enjoy that lifestyle.

No crime is victimless. To make such a claim is pure ignorance, and just a made up excuse to try and dirty the air in an effort to make your argument seem legitimate. It's clear that you have no clue about running jails (prisons, correction facilites), becuase efficiency is not the problem. In fact, most are ran undermaned. You also don't have a clue about costs, spending alucations, etc, or didn't stop and do the math before you typed your response about "it should't cost more than someone on welfare", sending money to other countries, etc. It's clear you also don't understand the difference between federal goverment spending and state/local goverment spending, and/or which is responsible for stopping theft at local businesses, or at least as far as the US is concerned. It's really sad that you don't reconize that many of the programs that you claim to accomplish "nothing of value" actualy play a big part in preventing the very crime, you are arguing about.

I do however agree with you on rehabilitation, but there again, rehabilitation requires the individual to want to be rehabilitated.

 

[Indus]

Nope, just pointing out the flaw in your earlier statement that prisons were already paid for. There is an incremental cost for every person you lock up.

I do however agree with you on rehabilitation, but there again, rehabilitation requires the individual to want to be rehabilitated.

I've always wondered why our prisons weren't like European prisons. In those prisoners are allowed to bring their own clothes and stuff so they're "comfy" and not treated like animals for slaughter.. but the real punishment is isolation and not talking to anyone for long periods of time.

Instead with what the US does.. we can't even be sure if the US treats prisoners in prisons or cattle for milk better.

 

[brycejones]

I've always wondered why our prisons weren't like European prisons. In those prisoners are allowed to bring their own clothes and stuff so they're "comfy" and not treated like animals for slaughter.. but the real punishment is isolation and not talking to anyone for long periods of time.

Instead with what the US does.. we can't even be sure if the US treats prisoners in prisons or cattle for milk better.

As a prison system ours is a failure if rates of recidivism are how we measure success. But any almost any attempt to change it is met with howls about being “soft on crime”.

 

[brycejones]

. Problem is lot of these people don't want to change. They enjoy that lifestyle.

Some maybe do but at least in the US we make it difficult to improve in prison and then even more difficult after prison to put those improvements to use.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I don't disagree the prison system is terrible and could be better. The main goal should be to keep dangerous/undesirable and especially repeat offenders off the streets to protest the rest of us and our property, with secondary goal of rehab or at least an attempt at it. Those who want to better themselves would be put in a section that is more humane and is similar to a college campus setting where they need to go through various courses etc and activities. Once they graduate, they are then setup to go back in the world. Those who refuse, well they get put into the "regular" jail system, but always have the option to change their mind. Those who go through the rehab system would get a shorter sentence.

 

[akugami]

Red Squirrel has engaged in lie after lie after lie. When his lies are busted, he keeps moving the goalpost or just plain makes up an argument based on feels.

White collar criminals who are not part of a criminal empire, or who have done insane damage to a large number of citizens, are never jailed for 25 years. We're talking Bernie Madoff level cons here.

Tax evaders who get decades long sentences would have to have done it for a very long time, and for very high amounts of money. Their tax crimes creates a burden on law abiding tax payers. Unless you're bilking millions in taxes, or you're Donald Trump, you aren't getting more than two to five years. Anyone doing double digit years would have been costing taxpayers millions. Their impact on the lives of everyone is 1000x more harmful than someone smashing a store front window or petty theft a corner grocery store.

Someone smoking weed is never going to get 25 years unless they were dealing. That's just a lie. And if you're illegally dealing drugs, I have no sympathy for you.

Someone downloading an MP3 is never going to get 25 years. As a person who knows someone caught with thousands of bootleg CD's, I can tell you that jail time is reserved only for the worst of cases and at most it's a couple years. Unless you're stupid, you're just going to get fined, and maybe a couple years of probation. Not 25 years. That's just another lie.


Conservatives ignore the easy answer to solve the majority of crimes. Solve the underlying social issues causing people to commit crimes. Provide people with a path to a meaningful and successful life. When people are given the opportunity at happiness and success, it's amazing how the majority of them will choose to lead non-criminal lifestyles.

Provide a path to housing ownership, whether this is through a condo style housing, or town homes, or even single homes. Solve the housing crisis. Provide more housing, and more importantly, provide affordable housing. This means the dipshits blocking housing needs to get a swift kick in the rear. And housing isn't simply just a room with four walls to live in. It's important to build a positive environment where people have access to recreational facilities. This includes access to indoor facilities when there's inclement weather, basketball and other sports facilities, as well as centers for learning such as access to a public computer for those too poor to afford personal computers.

Provide education, so we can better the next generation and learn from the past. Something as simple as teaching the next generation to not be racist dicks is a crime in the eyes of conservatives.

I'm no bleeding heart liberal, though I am liberal. I believe in the death penalty. I don't hate guns. I think guns can be a fun pastime, but we must provide checks and balances to who can obtain a gun. Gun safety education and background checks are a must.

There's so much we can do, and should do, to help society. But conservatives ignore the fact that we're giving fucking billionaires more money, while giving zero shits to the general populace. So excuse me while I call say that I don't believe the crocodile tears that you shed for small business owners. If you really cared, there's so much that can be done. But I know it's fake because there is no way in hell conservatives will ever put forth true changes that helps the general populace.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't disagree the prison system is terrible and could be better. The main goal should be to keep dangerous/undesirable and especially repeat offenders off the streets to protest the rest of us and our property, with secondary goal of rehab or at least an attempt at it. Those who want to better themselves would be put in a section that is more humane and is similar to a college campus setting where they need to go through various courses etc and activities. Once they graduate, they are then setup to go back in the world. Those who refuse, well they get put into the "regular" jail system, but always have the option to change their mind. Those who go through the rehab system would get a shorter sentence.

I would not agree with this. Having shorter sentences for participation in rehabilitation would, I believe, inflate the number of people would would sigh up strictly for the shorter sentence. I would say that sentences could be reduced by trained psychologists in whose best judgment real progress has been made, but with no promises Successful completion should be rewarded, with job placement and financial support for necessities and to reassure proper integration into society. Job training should focus of employment that is rewarding in the sense it benefits disadvantaged people etc. Prisons should be farms that cultivate crops for food deserts street stands, medical devices, care packages for disadvantaged children, jobs that provide an instant sense what one does is of great value to others and provide such feedback. Imagine living a life that made life better for others.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Prisons should be farms that cultivate crops for food deserts street stands, medical devices, care packages for disadvantaged children, jobs that provide an instant sense what one does is of great value to others and provide such feedback. Imagine living a life that made life better for others.

Agree. Prisons should be for rehabilitation and education, not punishment. Everyone messes up at one point or another. Don't punish and turn people into the worst of themselves. Help them to be the best version of themselves possible.

 

[manly]

Red Squirrel has engaged in lie after lie after lie. When his lies are busted, he keeps moving the goalpost or just plain makes up an argument based on feels.

Willful lying is one thing, but RS is one of the dumbest fucks on this forum. I feel he seriously believes all of the nonsense that he constantly spews.

IMO it's a little different from say Greenman, who at least is partly trolling (although there's clearly no doubt he's secure in his belief system).

I think most of us would agree that if you do a smash & grab of a small business, ideally you are caught and prosecuted and serve a penalty appropriate to the actual crime. However, all of the resources needed to apply justice are limited and it's incredibly expensive to incarcerate criminals. You'd have to be a dumb MFer like RS to claim we should jail serial shoplifters for a very long time, and that there's virtually no monetary cost to society to do so.

But at least that isn't quite as dumb as the MFer who said we should just chop off their hands.

 

[MrSquished]

Willful lying is one thing, but RS is one of the dumbest fucks on this forum. I feel he seriously believes all of the nonsense that he constantly spews.

IMO it's a little different from say Greenman, who at least is partly trolling (although there's clearly no doubt he's secure in his belief system).

I think most of us would agree that if you do a smash & grab of a small business, ideally you are caught and prosecuted and serve a penalty appropriate to the actual crime. However, all of the resources needed to apply justice are limited and it's incredibly expensive to incarcerate criminals. You'd have to be a dumb MFer like RS to claim we should jail serial shoplifters for a very long time, and that there's virtually no monetary cost to society to do so.

But at least that isn't quite as dumb as the MFer who said we should just chop off their hands.

Agreed. I'm thinking @RedSquirrel is probably a sub 80 IQ whereas I think @Greenman is probably in the 80's somewhere. Squirrel is just plain stupid - his thought processes from his words are mentally deficient - he lacks basic intelligence and logic. He rails against the government but that's probably the only thing keeping him employed at this point - he'd probably have been fired anywhere else. He has a government job in some boonies and he got lucky.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Willful lying is one thing, but RS is one of the dumbest fucks on this forum. I feel he seriously believes all of the nonsense that he constantly spews.

Typical libtard, resorting to personal attacks when you don't agree with someone. The people who are dumb fucks are the ones who are ok with allowing theft to continue and don't want these criminals to be taken off the streets.

So glad liberalism is collapsing, as that is really the big part of the problem, is the bleeding heart liberal mindset that puts these bad people on a pedestal and victim blames. They got completely destroyed in the states, and here in Canada the Trudeau regime is spiraling into the toilet and even his own MPs want him to resign, and it looks like we might finally get an election soon. I really hate to call it early in risk of jinxing it, but I think the conservatives are going to win by a landslide here too. People are fed up of all the BS, it's not just me. This forum is a liberal echo chamber, if you actually venture anywhere else, and talk to real actual working class people IRL you will see that you are actually all a minority and most people actually would agree with me on these issues.