Discussion This is why retail businesses don't succeed in America without heavy markups..

[Red Squirrel]

Well nothing they are doing now is working! Time to try something different.

When troubleshooting a computer issue how many times do you try the exact same thing before you realize it's not fixing the problem?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Could spin around all day trying to pin point the exact cause but reality is whatever was going on 15 years ago worked, go back to that. Trudeau's catch and release program, and making drugs legal is probably a big part of it. Reverse that at least.

ON didn’t make drugs legal.

 

[Red Squirrel]

ON didn’t make drugs legal.

The laws are not being enforced, it may as well be legal. There's all sorts of drugs on the streets like meth, cocaine, fentanyl, carfentanyl, krokodyl etc and it's all being dealt right in the open.

 

[brycejones]

This is already well known. If you use any kind of force, you are charged for assault.

The examples you gave earlier were not nearly that cut and dry.

 

[Red Squirrel]

The examples you gave earlier were not nearly that cut and dry.

At the heat of the moment you do whatever you can to protect yourself or your property. There is nothing about any of that situation that will be cut and dry and circumstances will vary wildly. The whole "reasonable force" thing is ridiculous. At the heat of the moment when your life, house, business etc is in danger it's pretty hard to control what is "reasonable".

 

[ch33zw1z]

The laws are not being enforced, it may as well be legal. There's all sorts of drugs on the streets like meth, cocaine, fentanyl, carfentanyl, krokodyl etc and it's all being dealt right in the open.

The legal status didn’t change what drugs are out there. You need to be specific with your words, drugs were decriminalized but not legalized, it is not the same thing.

Unless of course, you’re fine with just being intentionally wrong (misinformation) or are just lying about it for feels (worse)

 

[ch33zw1z]

At the heat of the moment you do whatever you can to protect yourself or your property. There is nothing about any of that situation that will be cut and dry and circumstances will vary wildly. The whole "reasonable force" thing is ridiculous. At the heat of the moment when your life, house, business etc is in danger it's pretty hard to control what is "reasonable".

Yet US states and the legal system decide that stuff on a daily basis.

For instance, shooting someone who is coming at you and you have no path of egress, reasonable.

Chasing someone out of your house and shooting them while they run from you, not reasonable

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yet US states and the legal system decide that stuff on a daily basis.

For instance, shooting someone who is coming at you and you have no path of egress, reasonable.

Chasing someone out of your house and shooting them while they run from you, not reasonable

It's easy to decide these things after the fact during a multi year drawn out process. Not so easy at heat of moment when you're watching everything you worked for getting destroyed and your life is also in danger, on top of it. We should have the right to stop that threat dead in it's tracks using any force without getting in trouble, period.

 

[brycejones]

It's easy to decide these things after the fact during a multi year drawn out process. Not so easy at heat of moment when you're watching everything you worked for getting destroyed and your life is also in danger, on top of it. We should have the right to stop that threat dead in it's tracks using any force without getting in trouble, period.

When the person is running from you . The threat is over. Hence why you can ‘t chase someone down the street and shoot them or beat the shit out of them.

The US is clearly much more open to the use of force than Canada and what you are asking for isn’t even allowed here even in states like Oklahoma which you would not call a bastion of liberalism.

Your position is very extreme.

 

[ch33zw1z]

It's easy to decide these things after the fact during a multi year drawn out process. Not so easy at heat of moment when you're watching everything you worked for getting destroyed and your life is also in danger, on top of it. We should have the right to stop that threat dead in it's tracks using any force without getting in trouble, period.

Who is “we”?

And these “things” are often not easy to decide, but knowing the laws in your area is the first place to start. My state has Duty to Retreat in place, while others have Stand Your Ground. My state also has the lowest gun death rate in the states.

Neither of these policies technically allows for shooting someone after the threat is neutralized (eg someone running away from you)

 

[dank69]

Well nothing they are doing now is working! Time to try something different.

When troubleshooting a computer issue how many times do you try the exact same thing before you realize it's not fixing the problem?

We have lots of guns in America and still have more crime than you. We have more police in America and still have more crime than you. You are literally the one seeking to try things that have already been tried and failed. Meanwhile, whenever poverty goes down, crime goes down with it.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Gun rights would be a plus, but don't even need that. Stand your ground would be a good start. If someone is stealing from me or trying to assault me I should be allowed to break both their knees with a baseball bat and not get in trouble. They came on my property to do harm or to take from me, I shouldn't have to put up with it. Same with business owners, they should not have to put up with people shoplifting or breaking in at night and should be allowed to use force. It's really not that crazy of a concept. Let people protect what they work hard for and stop threats dead in their tracks.

I hate you to be the one to tell you, but you aren't breaking anyone's anything. You're far more likely to get killed trying to flail a piece of wood around at someone who's already a criminal.

 

[Brainonska511]

For some people, it's not a Halloween costume, it's everyday wear.

 

[akugami]

We have lots of guns in America and still have more crime than you. We have more police in America and still have more crime than you. You are literally the one seeking to try things that have already been tried and failed. Meanwhile, whenever poverty goes down, crime goes down with it.

That's odd...it's almost like when we take care of society and make sure most/all can live healthy, happy, and productive lives, most people don't want to be complete dickwads. Nah...that's crazy talk.

 

[KMFJD]

yeah about that....another interesting article

Lies, damn lies, and shoplifting statistics

For 32 years, the National Retail Federation (NRF) — the lobbying group representing major retailers in the United States — has produced the "National Retail Security Survey." The survey, widely cited by media outlets, attempts to estimate the total retail "shrink" in the industry by collecting...

popular.info

~The 2023 release, which covers data from retailers about 2022, found that total shrink in the industry amounted to 1.6% of sales. 36% of that shrink was attributable to external theft or shoplifting. That is identical to the total shrink in the industry the survey found in 2019. The survey has found shrink has been at roughly the same levels for decades. In 2011, for example, the survey found shrink amounted to 1.5% of total retail sales. In 2005, it was 1.6%. The percentage of shrink due to shoplifting has also remained steady.

~The new NRF report also contradicts outside estimates of shoplifting trends between 2019 and 2023. The Council on Criminal Justice (CCJ), a non-partisan think tank, found that the shoplifting rate in 2023 was 10% lower than in 2019. The CCJ's data is consistent with data collected from police departments by the Real Time Crime Index, which shows theft (which includes shoplifting and other property crimes) in 2023 was below 2019 levels. FBI data also shows property crime decreasing between 2019 and 2023.

 

[akugami]

The NRF report pretty much shows how little retail theft affects the majority of businesses. Less than 2%. And as I stated in an earlier post in this thread, other factors like taxes affect small businesses way more than retail theft. But that doesn't fit the narrative of certain individuals that the USA is filled with immigrant thieves just waiting to loot, pillage, and rape.

If your business is going to be bankrupted by 2% shrinkage, you weren't going to make it anyways.

Tax breaks, and other initiatives to help out small and medium sized businesses will help them survive more than another cop. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos does not need another tax break.

 

[Red Squirrel]

A typical storefront window or door can cost thousands of dollars to replace. That might be the entire month's profit for a small business. Yeah, no shit, taxes make up a bigger part of expenses, because the government takes a good chunk of what you make. That's an entirely separate issue. But to also take yet another 2% (I doubt it's that low) from them in the form of theft is another kick in the face when their margins are already so thin due to all the taxes and other costs of operating. It needs to stop.

 

[akugami]

The NRF is THE retail trade show. I've been to them. I trust their numbers more than some Internet rando guys feelings.

And damaged store fronts is completely different from retail theft. There is very very little random destruction of retail property going on. If we're going to go by feels and not hard numbers, I'd say less than 0.01% of all losses that a small business incurs (which includes shrinkage) is due to damaged storefronts.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

yeah about that....another interesting article

Lies, damn lies, and shoplifting statistics

For 32 years, the National Retail Federation (NRF) — the lobbying group representing major retailers in the United States — has produced the "National Retail Security Survey." The survey, widely cited by media outlets, attempts to estimate the total retail "shrink" in the industry by collecting...

popular.info

~The 2023 release, which covers data from retailers about 2022, found that total shrink in the industry amounted to 1.6% of sales. 36% of that shrink was attributable to external theft or shoplifting. That is identical to the total shrink in the industry the survey found in 2019. The survey has found shrink has been at roughly the same levels for decades. In 2011, for example, the survey found shrink amounted to 1.5% of total retail sales. In 2005, it was 1.6%. The percentage of shrink due to shoplifting has also remained steady.

~The new NRF report also contradicts outside estimates of shoplifting trends between 2019 and 2023. The Council on Criminal Justice (CCJ), a non-partisan think tank, found that the shoplifting rate in 2023 was 10% lower than in 2019. The CCJ's data is consistent with data collected from police departments by the Real Time Crime Index, which shows theft (which includes shoplifting and other property crimes) in 2023 was below 2019 levels. FBI data also shows property crime decreasing between 2019 and 2023.

View attachment 113485

Oh no! So it was FUD all the way down? Does that mean conservatives have been tricked yet again? say it ain't so

 

[Red Squirrel]

The NRF is THE retail trade show. I've been to them. I trust their numbers more than some Internet rando guys feelings.

And damaged store fronts is completely different from retail theft. There is very very little random destruction of retail property going on. If we're going to go by feels and not hard numbers, I'd say less than 0.01% of all losses that a small business incurs (which includes shrinkage) is due to damaged storefronts.

Tell that to all the victims of the break ins in my city. There was about 12 of them last week alone down town. These are all small businesses already struggling to make ends meet due to increasing costs of living/operating, and now they have to deal with even more losses.

Most of this stuff goes unreported as there's no real point to report it anymore as nothing gets done. Stats don't tell the whole story. Actual real life occurrences are what tell the story. You can go to these stores in person, and see the plywood where the windows used to be. This is real.

And retail theft is still a big loss. ANY percentage is too high, it should be 0. One of the grocery stores here that is near the tent encampments is targeted daily, people just walk out without paying, and nobody gets in trouble, and the store employees are not even allowed to try to stop them. Who do you think pays for that? *WE* do. This shit needs to stop, it should not be accepted.

 

[MrSquished]

Tell that to all the victims of the break ins in my city. There was about 12 of them last week alone down town. These are all small businesses already struggling to make ends meet due to increasing costs of living/operating, and now they have to deal with even more losses.

Most of this stuff goes unreported as there's no real point to report it anymore as nothing gets done. Stats don't tell the whole story. Actual real life occurrences are what tell the story. You can go to these stores in person, and see the plywood where the windows used to be. This is real.

And retail theft is still a big loss. ANY percentage is too high, it should be 0. One of the grocery stores here that is near the tent encampments is targeted daily, people just walk out without paying, and nobody gets in trouble, and the store employees are not even allowed to try to stop them. Who do you think pays for that? *WE* do. This shit needs to stop, it should not be accepted.

I mean green man and PC geek are small thinkers but bro, you are the smallest thinker of all this shitheads that I've seen in this forum for a long fucking time.

I'm pretty sure if you stuck your hand out like you were hitchhiking you wouldn't even be able to see your fucking thumb you're that shortsighted and small-minded.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Tell that to all the victims of the break ins in my city. There was about 12 of them last week alone down town. These are all small businesses already struggling to make ends meet due to increasing costs of living/operating, and now they have to deal with even more losses.

Most of this stuff goes unreported as there's no real point to report it anymore as nothing gets done. Stats don't tell the whole story. Actual real life occurrences are what tell the story. You can go to these stores in person, and see the plywood where the windows used to be. This is real.

And retail theft is still a big loss. ANY percentage is too high, it should be 0. One of the grocery stores here that is near the tent encampments is targeted daily, people just walk out without paying, and nobody gets in trouble, and the store employees are not even allowed to try to stop them. Who do you think pays for that? *WE* do. This shit needs to stop, it should not be accepted.

and who do you think pays if you lock them up in a prison?

 

[Red Squirrel]

and who do you think pays if you lock them up in a prison?

We're already paying for that. Prisons already exist and already have staff. The whole point is to keep dangerous people off the streets. Most of this theft and crime is done by the same people over and over, it's not like they have to jail tens of thousands of people. It's dumb to just let theft continue and not punish it and protect property owners from it, when we pay all these taxes, which part of it is suppose to be to keep our streets safer.

 

[dank69]

A typical storefront window or door can cost thousands of dollars to replace. That might be the entire month's profit for a small business. Yeah, no shit, taxes make up a bigger part of expenses, because the government takes a good chunk of what you make. That's an entirely separate issue. But to also take yet another 2% (I doubt it's that low) from them in the form of theft is another kick in the face when their margins are already so thin due to all the taxes and other costs of operating. It needs to stop.

Are you forgetting businesses have insurance? The world is moving on from the times when you could make a profit by reselling. With the internet people can order exotic goods from anywhere on the planet with free 2 day shipping. The "mom & pop" shop is already extinct for everything but services. It doesn't do anyone any good to hold so tightly onto the past. Adapt. Overcome.

 

[Fenixgoon]

We're already paying for that. Prisons already exist and already have staff. The whole point is to keep dangerous people off the streets. Most of this theft and crime is done by the same people over and over, it's not like they have to jail tens of thousands of people. It's dumb to just let theft continue and not punish it and protect property owners from it, when we pay all these taxes, which part of it is suppose to be to keep our streets safer.

And more inmates means more staff, more food, more medical costs. It's not like you build a prison and everything after that has 0 cost.

Maybe...just maybe...the solution is to get people in a position where they feel like crime isn't their best option for survival.

And speaking of imprisoning people, America has the highest incarceration in the world by a large margin. And we're not anywhere close to proportionally safer in return.