This is why Democrats will lose in '08

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Fmr12B

Originally posted by: Deudalus
The Democrats will lose in '08 for a very simple reason. Everytime you guys lose an election your base assumes you should move further to the left.

Thoughts?

I'm 100% behind you Deudalus. I'm a liberal conservative.

Whats most important to me is reducing the tax burden, smaller Govt - the god damn nanny state of things is fuggin ridiculous, keeping me safe - war on terrorism is fine.

I would like to see the reduction of entitlement programs as well. Bust up the Unions and give the money to the teachers and the kids instead of the bureacratic teachers unions.

On the liberal side, I don't care about gay marriage. Let em get married, the biggest push behind gay marriage are divorce attorneys and the wedding planners. Straight educated people are getting married less and less becasue marriage is a religious instituion and more and more educated people are not religious. If the gays want in on this have at it!

I'm pro-abortion and pro-stem cell research, I don't care what you do with your body and you aborting that baby helps reduce the number of people on entitlement programs.

As long as we are in a two party system I'll stick with the Repubs. They keep me safe and keep my taxes lower. I can count on the Dems to balance things out but prefer the Repubs to be in power.

Republicans keep your taxes lower by borrowing money while growing spending. It does as much good for reducing your tax burden as paying your taxes with a credit card. Sooner or later you'll have to pay the debt back with interest or they'll steal it from you with inflation. As far as keeping you safe, how many terrorists did they create by invading Iraq? By now, probably as many as they did when they funded the mujahadeen in the 80s.

 

[Lemon law]

To bOmbrman---who notes---But the sub set of people who (a) made these confident predictions in 11/06 (b) Who predicted a big republican win then (c) and are now back trying to be one out of two while risking being 0 of 2.----to that sub set of people I say---you can't be faulted for lack of over optimism.


"What are you talking about?

I'm confidently predicting that a democrat will win in 2008, not a republican. A democrat."

Look at it this way---I am going by the thread title predicting a Republican win in 08---and you just are not in that above sub set I singled out as over optimists.---and hence do not qualify for my lecture on the perils of over optimism.

But cheer up bOmbrman---if you end up being wrong in 08---you could be one the first charter members of the new sub set the Republicans will be citing come 2010. I may well end up with you in that same boat.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Next time someone says "eco-theist" I'm gonna fuckin' pistol-whip a kitten. Oh, and anyone who uses stupid puns like "Clinton News Network" and "Ghoulianni", or retarded tabloid contractions like "Billary", I wish low sperm counts upon you.

The OP needs to get out more often. Why would you judge the Democratic party on outspoken forum goers? Do you even have a TV? This is a TECH FORUM. That skews the demographics a bit, wouldn't you say? This forum does NOT represent an accurate cross-section of America. Especially not P&N.

The glaring retardation that caught my eye was how you're associating Atheism with Democrats. Don't buy into the victim mentality the religious are trying to co-opt. About 90% of Americans are religious, and there's only one professed Atheist in congress. You can't get elected these days without saying you're a "person of faith". So, I wouldn't worry about the poor Theists. they're doing just fine.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: senseamp
Hillary is going to be president in 2008. The beauty of it is going to be that Republicans will be in denial all the way. There is a strong sense of entitlement to power in the GOP, especially the base which thinks it has all the answers, and crushing it will be so very satisfying. I am not going for a simple win in 2008, oh no. It has to be a humiliating defeat for Republicans, one where they put up a big fight and still fall short, and the only one who can really bring it to bear is Hillary. Her winning will not just defeat Republicans, it will emasculate them. And there is no reason not to run Hillary in 2008. In the unlikely scenario that she loses, it just means we'll have another New York liberal in the White House. Kind of like we have Arnold in CA, or until recently Bloomberg in NY. No other Republican has a chance against her. Heads liberals win, tails the conservatives lose. So why not go for it all and run Hillary?

How is picking Hillary "going for it all?"

Because she is the conservatives' biggest fear. If they can't beat her, they are impotent.

Wow. To me, "going for it all" would mean picking the candidate who could make the biggest change, not the candidate that would make the most Republicans feel bad...

 

[ProfJohn]

Hillary is the WORST choice the Democrats can make. To Republicans her name is akin to finger nails on the chalk board

Republicans are upset and disappointed with their party, the best thing for the Democrats would be to take advantage of that by nominating someone that most Republicans won?t object too.
By nominating Hillary you will take all these upset and disinterested Republicans and get them all charged up to defeat her.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Hillary is the WORST choice the Democrats can make. To Republicans her name is akin to finger nails on the chalk board

Republicans are upset and disappointed with their party, the best thing for the Democrats would be to take advantage of that by nominating someone that most Republicans won?t object too.
By nominating Hillary you will take all these upset and disinterested Republicans and get them all charged up to defeat her.

Hillary's the best choice for president. She, like Bill, will continue to make informed, and tough choices for our nation. Remember the mid 90s? The Clintons were the democrats that pushed open trade, and balanced budgets. They were the ones that helped reform welfare.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
The Democrats will lose in '08 for a very simple reason. Everytime you guys lose an election your base assumes you should move further to the left.

Bush is constantly labeled as a "polarizing figure" which he undoubtedly is. But the Democrat response to this should be to move further to the middle and steal independents like myself. Instead the Democrats move further to the left.

-snip-

Thoughts?

Relax man 🙂

What you and every poster so far fails to take into account is the Dem (Repub) candidates move to left (right) during the primaries to pander to their base for the nomination.

After the primary, just watch the nominee dance back toward the middle.

So far, it's happened in every election I've ever seen (too many to confess to).

Fern

 

[jonks]

If we are still fighting in Iraq come 11/08, the dems could nominate a retarded shoemaker and still win. This "Hillary can't win" chorus is ridiculous, and the fact that it's continually spouted by republicans should encourage dems to put her up.

Hillary can't win, she's too divisive and a woman. Obama can't win, he's inexperienced and black. Edwards can't win, he gets expensive haircuts. Romney can't win, he's a mormon. Guiliani can't win, he's only got one issue. Ron Paul can't win, nobody knows who he is, and if they did they'd be really scared. McCain can't win, hell, he can't even run.

Apparently we're just not going to have a president. Oh well.

 

[Blackjack200]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
If we are still fighting in Iraq come 11/08, the dems could nominate a retarded shoemaker and still win. This "Hillary can't win" chorus is ridiculous, and the fact that it's continually spouted by republicans should encourage dems to put her up.

Hillary can't win, she's too divisive and a woman. Obama can't win, he's inexperienced and black. Edwards can't win, he gets expensive haircuts. Romney can't win, he's a mormon. Guiliani can't win, he's only got one issue. Ron Paul can't win, nobody knows who he is, and if they did they'd be really scared. McCain can't win, hell, he can't even run.

Apparently we're just not going to have a president. Oh well.

I'm voting for Pat Buchanan. Hey, at least he doesn't believe in "abortion for stem cells"😀

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Hillary is the WORST choice the Democrats can make. To Republicans her name is akin to finger nails on the chalk board

Republicans are upset and disappointed with their party, the best thing for the Democrats would be to take advantage of that by nominating someone that most Republicans won?t object too.
By nominating Hillary you will take all these upset and disinterested Republicans and get them all charged up to defeat her.

Hillary's the best choice for president. She, like Bill, will continue to make informed, and tough choices for our nation. Remember the mid 90s? The Clintons were the democrats that pushed open trade, and balanced budgets. They were the ones that helped reform welfare.

You have a short memory it seems, let me help you out here?

NAFTA was an agreement created under President Bush, Clinton does get credit for pushing for it to approved though, but it was in no way shape or form his idea.

Welfare reform was created and then passed by a Republican congress, prior to the Republican take over Clinton did not say or do much via Welfare Reform. Furthermore, half the Democrats in the house voted against the bill and 21 Democrats in the Senate also voted against it.

Now the budget is a little more complicated. But if you look at Clinton?s first two fiscal budgets, while Democrats control the congress, you will see NO plans to balance the budget at all. It was only after the Republicans took over that the idea of balancing the budget entered the picture.
Sadly the best I can do for you is post a copy of the FY 1996 budget proposal. 1996 FY budget
Scan down to page 14 of the PDF and look at the estimated budget deficits for 1995 to 2000. And what do you see??!?!?!? Projected budget deficits as far as the eye can see? and here I thought Clinton wanted to balance the budget?
This proves my point; Bill Clinton had NO intention of balancing the budget until the Republicans took over congress. His own budget proves this fact.

All three things you give Clinton credit for were Republican ideas, why do we need to elect Hillary if the greatest accomplishments of Bill were Republican in origin?

 

[ProfJohn]

Oh look? I found a half way decent site that has some date from Clinton?s first budget (FY 1994) Chart on page 2
Check at the table on page 2. ?Federal Outlays, Receipts, and Deficits with the Clinton Plan?

Notice his estimated deficits for 1993 to 1998 ALL exceeded $200 billion. In fact his FY 1998 estimate was $250 billion. What makes that interesting is that 1998 was the year we balanced the budget.
This proves beyond a shadow of doubt that Clinton had NO PLAN at all to balance the budget prior to the Republican take over in 1994.

 

[JEDIYoda]

BEAT ME TO IT...

 

[sweetpea70512]

"I'm the kind of voter that you should be looking for here libs. Give me Clinton minus the scandals and I'm totally 100% on board. Give me Billary, Edwards, or Obama and you not only lost one but the Republicans gained one."

You have made some excellent points in your post, in some ways it sounds like you would make a good American.... I don't understand to need to be either Democrat or Republican and vote for the individual whom I think will do the best job for the country.

"The issue I'm on the fence on is Universal Health Care:"
I don't personally mind it because I don't think that hospitals should be closed down because they keep having to treat people who aren't covered.

I would possibly support a UHC system as long as other reform comes along with it such as reform against trial lawyers.

I also think people should have the option of having their own private care as well.

Doesn't sound to me like "on the fence" but someone with a definate view.. and some good points
I don't personally mind it because I don't think that hospitals should be closed down because they keep having to treat people who aren't covered.

All people who are not covered is not by choice I for example had a Dr. in New Orleans misdiagnose me and now I can not get insurance at any cost and for the most part I am as healthy as a horse... I think affordable insurance should be avaliable to every one.

And finally I do not think you have been on this forum long enough to discount people like dmcowen674 I don't think he became an elite member because he is always wrong and if you took the time to listen to him you might realize most of what he says is right, yea he has some quarky ideas but his facts are usually right and in almost cases aggravating how right his predictions are.😉

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Hillary is the WORST choice the Democrats can make. To Republicans her name is akin to finger nails on the chalk board

Republicans are upset and disappointed with their party, the best thing for the Democrats would be to take advantage of that by nominating someone that most Republicans won?t object too.
By nominating Hillary you will take all these upset and disinterested Republicans and get them all charged up to defeat her.

Wonder why more people don`t think way?
Prof John you are exactly 100% on the money!!

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Hillary is the WORST choice the Democrats can make. To Republicans her name is akin to finger nails on the chalk board

Republicans are upset and disappointed with their party, the best thing for the Democrats would be to take advantage of that by nominating someone that most Republicans won?t object too.
By nominating Hillary you will take all these upset and disinterested Republicans and get them all charged up to defeat her.

Wonder why more people don`t think way?
Prof John you are exactly 100% on the money!!

Because they think Hillary will be a repeat of Bill and it won't.

She doesn't have the charm or political ability he had so unless she plans to send Bill to do all the hard work she will not be nearly as successful as Bill was.

 

[theeedude]

Last I checked Republicans are a minority and won't be electing presidents for a long time. So yeah, they hate Hillary, whooptee doo.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
Corporate lobbying has turned this once great nation into Of the Corporation, By the Corporation, For the Corporation, soon, we won't be able to afford The Corporation's goods, then what?

This is the single largest threat to the country.

Bless you :thumbsup:

 

[Deudalus]

And finally I do not think you have been on this forum long enough to discount people like dmcowen674 I don't think he became an elite member because he is always wrong and if you took the time to listen to him you might realize most of what he says is right, yea he has some quarky ideas but his facts are usually right and in almost cases aggravating how right his predictions are.

He turned into an elite m ember by posting troll type one-liners 500 times a day for the past 8 years.......

 

[Deudalus]

I decided to dig up some of Dave's most enlightened and deep critical thought inspired posts on these forums. Here's afew of his wonderfully complex thoughts:

These are his entire unedited posts by the way. I'm not cutting anything out.

Oh they feel alright. The texture of green in their pockets from destroying the planet.

You would never vote for a Democrat if your life depended on it.

Waste of a post.

Bolded for truth.

It is the ultimate irresposibility of U.S. Corporations that we for some reason allow to continue.

They are rewarded for incompetence on purpose for profit.

But but but this is the fantastic economy Republicans in here insists is the greatest ever.

The house of borrowing cards the Repubs set up?

Of course the crash will all be the Dems fault since they are in control now.

This can't be according to the resident Republicans.

Oh that's right, it's all the Democrats fault.

This seems to be the most efficient way to become an "intellectual elite member" sweetpea.

I don't think your point of view of "the more posts you have the smarter you are" holds water.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512


And finally I do not think you have been on this forum long enough to discount people like dmcowen674 I don't think he became an elite member because he is always wrong and if you took the time to listen to him you might realize most of what he says is right, yea he has some quarky ideas but his facts are usually right and in almost cases aggravating how right his predictions are.😉

HAHAHAHAHAHA, are you serious? His facts are usually right? Yea, good one. Still waiting on the $5 per gallon gas after election day, I mean after Christmas, I mean by Memorial day.....

 

[StageLeft]

_I_ used to be an elite member. Trust me, it doesn't mean a person has quality posts! More than anything it means the're a big time post whore.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
_I_ used to be an elite member. Trust me, it doesn't mean a person has quality posts! More than anything it means the're a big time post whore.

Heheh 🙂

Btw, Chuck Hagel or Hillary for President! Preferable Hagel, I actually think he would get us the hell out of Iraq.

Win the war on terror = don't try to freaking occupy countries. Just blow the crap out of any military hardware via air strikes/predator strikes. Fix our leaky borders, and buy 21st-century 3d imaging/scanning hardware for all of our ports/landing fields. 🙂

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
The Democrats will lose in '08 for a very simple reason. Everytime you guys lose an election your base assumes you should move further to the left.

Bush is constantly labeled as a "polarizing figure" which he undoubtedly is. But the Democrat response to this should be to move further to the middle and steal independents like myself. Instead the Democrats move further to the left.

Face facts. Jpeyton, Senseamp, Dave, Harvey, and ilk are now "the voice" of the Democrats. People with the same mindsets as these guys are the ones making the decisions for the party.

You will lose because you don't know how to win anymore.
You will lose because people like me are no longer welcome in your party.


I am:

Pro Abortion
Anti-Partial birth abortion
Pro Tax cuts for everyone
Pro war on terror
Anti-Iraq war
Pro Stem Cell research
Anti-Abortion just to get stem cells
Pro-seperation of church and state (a deist if you must know look it up) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism


The only issues I'm conservative on are:

Low taxes, permanently including the rich.
Military Spending because it fuels technology in all sectors.
Small government.


The issue I'm on the fence on is Universal Health Care:

I don't personally mind it because I don't think that hospitals should be closed down because they keep having to treat people who aren't covered.

I would possibly support a UHC system as long as other reform comes along with it such as reform against trial lawyers.

I also think people should have the option of having their own private care as well.


But I'm labeled as a nut for thinking things like:

Maybe our past 4 Presidents shouldn't all be named Bush or Clinton?

Maybe there is a God out there (Christian, Hindu, Muslim, or whatever) and not feel the need to call people retards for believing we aren't an accident.

Maybe Islamo Fascism is a problem in the world?

Maybe America has to act boldly in the world to keep other powers from being too aggressive to their neighbors? Maybe looking back at history shows not only that we must do this but that we are the most peaceful superpower in history.

Maybe the glass isn't always half empty? We live in the freest and richest country in the world at the height of its prosperity, how can everything be all doom and gloom?


I'm the kind of voter that you should be looking for here libs. Give me Clinton minus the scandals and I'm totally 100% on board. Give me Billary, Edwards, or Obama and you not only lost one but the Republicans gained one.

As much as you guys claim that Republicans are so "hardcore right wing evangelical conserative" you have to admit that a social Democrat in Giuliani is currently leading and Republicans aren't going further away from the center, they are trying to win.

Perhaps the DNC should reach out to voters like me rather than voters like the ones on these boards?


Just a thought, but when '08 comes around and the Democrats are still not in the White House maybe THEN you will listen eh?

Thoughts?

I agree with most of your feelings, except the bolded part.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
The Democrats will lose in '08 for a very simple reason. Everytime you guys lose an election your base assumes you should move further to the left.

Bush is constantly labeled as a "polarizing figure" which he undoubtedly is. But the Democrat response to this should be to move further to the middle and steal independents like myself. Instead the Democrats move further to the left.

Face facts. Jpeyton, Senseamp, Dave, Harvey, and ilk are now "the voice" of the Democrats. People with the same mindsets as these guys are the ones making the decisions for the party.

You will lose because you don't know how to win anymore.
You will lose because people like me are no longer welcome in your party.


I am:

Pro Abortion
Anti-Partial birth abortion
Pro Tax cuts for everyone
Pro war on terror
Anti-Iraq war
Pro Stem Cell research
Anti-Abortion just to get stem cells
Pro-seperation of church and state (a deist if you must know look it up) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism


The only issues I'm conservative on are:

Low taxes, permanently including the rich.
Military Spending because it fuels technology in all sectors.
Small government.


The issue I'm on the fence on is Universal Health Care:

I don't personally mind it because I don't think that hospitals should be closed down because they keep having to treat people who aren't covered.

I would possibly support a UHC system as long as other reform comes along with it such as reform against trial lawyers.

I also think people should have the option of having their own private care as well.


But I'm labeled as a nut for thinking things like:

Maybe our past 4 Presidents shouldn't all be named Bush or Clinton?

Maybe there is a God out there (Christian, Hindu, Muslim, or whatever) and not feel the need to call people retards for believing we aren't an accident.

Maybe Islamo Fascism is a problem in the world?

Maybe America has to act boldly in the world to keep other powers from being too aggressive to their neighbors? Maybe looking back at history shows not only that we must do this but that we are the most peaceful superpower in history.

Maybe the glass isn't always half empty? We live in the freest and richest country in the world at the height of its prosperity, how can everything be all doom and gloom?


I'm the kind of voter that you should be looking for here libs. Give me Clinton minus the scandals and I'm totally 100% on board. Give me Billary, Edwards, or Obama and you not only lost one but the Republicans gained one.

As much as you guys claim that Republicans are so "hardcore right wing evangelical conserative" you have to admit that a social Democrat in Giuliani is currently leading and Republicans aren't going further away from the center, they are trying to win.

Perhaps the DNC should reach out to voters like me rather than voters like the ones on these boards?


Just a thought, but when '08 comes around and the Democrats are still not in the White House maybe THEN you will listen eh?

Thoughts?

LMAO! The hypocrisy to be found in your belief statement!

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
I decided to dig up some of Dave's most enlightened and deep critical thought inspired posts on these forums. Here's afew of his wonderfully complex thoughts:

These are his entire unedited posts by the way. I'm not cutting anything out.

Oh they feel alright. The texture of green in their pockets from destroying the planet.

You would never vote for a Democrat if your life depended on it.

Waste of a post.

Bolded for truth.

It is the ultimate irresposibility of U.S. Corporations that we for some reason allow to continue.

They are rewarded for incompetence on purpose for profit.

But but but this is the fantastic economy Republicans in here insists is the greatest ever.

The house of borrowing cards the Repubs set up?

Of course the crash will all be the Dems fault since they are in control now.

This can't be according to the resident Republicans.

Oh that's right, it's all the Democrats fault.

This seems to be the most efficient way to become an "intellectual elite member" sweetpea.

I don't think your point of view of "the more posts you have the smarter you are" holds water.

Unless I'm missing something here, this seems to be a blatant flame.