This is why Democrats will lose in '08

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
The Democrats will lose in '08 for a very simple reason. Everytime you guys lose an election your base assumes you should move further to the left.

Bush is constantly labeled as a "polarizing figure" which he undoubtedly is. But the Democrat response to this should be to move further to the middle and steal independents like myself. Instead the Democrats move further to the left.

Face facts. Jpeyton, Senseamp, Dave, Harvey, and ilk are now "the voice" of the Democrats. People with the same mindsets as these guys are the ones making the decisions for the party.

You will lose because you don't know how to win anymore.
You will lose because people like me are no longer welcome in your party.


I am:

Pro Abortion
Anti-Partial birth abortion
Pro Tax cuts for everyone
Pro war on terror
Anti-Iraq war
Pro Stem Cell research
Anti-Abortion just to get stem cells
Pro-seperation of church and state (a deist if you must know look it up) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism


The only issues I'm conservative on are:

Low taxes, permanently including the rich.
Military Spending because it fuels technology in all sectors.
Small government.


The issue I'm on the fence on is Universal Health Care:

I don't personally mind it because I don't think that hospitals should be closed down because they keep having to treat people who aren't covered.

I would possibly support a UHC system as long as other reform comes along with it such as reform against trial lawyers.

I also think people should have the option of having their own private care as well.


But I'm labeled as a nut for thinking things like:

Maybe our past 4 Presidents shouldn't all be named Bush or Clinton?

Maybe there is a God out there (Christian, Hindu, Muslim, or whatever) and not feel the need to call people retards for believing we aren't an accident.

Maybe Islamo Fascism is a problem in the world?

Maybe America has to act boldly in the world to keep other powers from being too aggressive to their neighbors? Maybe looking back at history shows not only that we must do this but that we are the most peaceful superpower in history.

Maybe the glass isn't always half empty? We live in the freest and richest country in the world at the height of its prosperity, how can everything be all doom and gloom?


I'm the kind of voter that you should be looking for here libs. Give me Clinton minus the scandals and I'm totally 100% on board. Give me Billary, Edwards, or Obama and you not only lost one but the Republicans gained one.

As much as you guys claim that Republicans are so "hardcore right wing evangelical conserative" you have to admit that a social Democrat in Giuliani is currently leading and Republicans aren't going further away from the center, they are trying to win.

Perhaps the DNC should reach out to voters like me rather than voters like the ones on these boards?


Just a thought, but when '08 comes around and the Democrats are still not in the White House maybe THEN you will listen eh?

Thoughts?
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
Face facts. Jpeyton, Senseamp, Dave, Harvey, and ilk are now "the voice" of the Democrats. People with the same mindsets as these guys are the ones making the decisions for the party.

not really.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: loki8481
Face facts. Jpeyton, Senseamp, Dave, Harvey, and ilk are now "the voice" of the Democrats. People with the same mindsets as these guys are the ones making the decisions for the party.

not really.

Really because if I was making decisions I would be in the running.

I don't have the money to even file.

That's really sad because that is something not written in the Constitution either.

The Constitution for the most part is dead.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: loki8481
Face facts. Jpeyton, Senseamp, Dave, Harvey, and ilk are now "the voice" of the Democrats. People with the same mindsets as these guys are the ones making the decisions for the party.

not really.

Really because if I was making decisions I would be in the running.

I don't have the money to even file.

That's really sad because that is something not written in the Constitution either.

The Constitution for the most part is dead.

I hear its easy to immigrate to Canada...dont let the door hit ya
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,832
2,610
136
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: loki8481
Face facts. Jpeyton, Senseamp, Dave, Harvey, and ilk are now "the voice" of the Democrats. People with the same mindsets as these guys are the ones making the decisions for the party.

not really.

Really because if I was making decisions I would be in the running.

I don't have the money to even file.

That's really sad because that is something not written in the Constitution either.

The Constitution for the most part is dead.

I hear its easy to immigrate to Canada...dont let the door hit ya

Don't forget about Cuba, there are probably tons of free "boats" on the shores of Miami that you could use, since you had to sell your yacht. I hear you could even get some great medical care once you arrive.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: Deudalus
The Democrats will lose in '08 for a very simple reason. Everytime you guys lose an election your base assumes you should move further to the left.

Bush is constantly labeled as a "polarizing figure" which he undoubtedly is. But the Democrat response to this should be to move further to the middle and steal independents like myself. Instead the Democrats move further to the left.

Face facts. Jpeyton, Senseamp, Dave, Harvey, and ilk are now "the voice" of the Democrats. People with the same mindsets as these guys are the ones making the decisions for the party.

You will lose because you don't know how to win anymore.
You will lose because people like me are no longer welcome in your party.


I am:

Pro Abortion
Anti-Partial birth abortion
Pro Tax cuts for everyone
Pro war on terror
Anti-Iraq war
Pro Stem Cell research
Anti-Abortion just to get stem cells
Pro-seperation of church and state (a deist if you must know look it up) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism


The only issues I'm conservative on are:

Low taxes, permanently including the rich.
Military Spending because it fuels technology in all sectors.
Small government.


But I'm labeled as a nut for thinking things like:

Maybe our past 4 Presidents shouldn't all be named Bush or Clinton?

Maybe there is a God out there (Christian, Hindu, Muslim, or whatever) and not feel the need to call people retards for believing we aren't an accident.

Maybe Islamo Fascism is a problem in the world?

Maybe America has to act boldly in the world to keep other powers from being too aggressive to their neighbors? Maybe looking back at history shows not only that we must do this but that we are the most peaceful superpower in history.

Maybe the glass isn't always half empty? We live in the freest and richest country in the world at the height of its prosperity, how can everything be all doom and gloom?


I'm the kind of voter that you should be looking for here libs. Give me Clinton minus the scandals and I'm totally 100% on board. Give me Billary, Edwards, or Obama and you not only lost one but the Republicans gained one.

As much as you guys claim that Republicans are so "hardcore right wing evangelical conserative" you have to admit that a social Democrat in Giuliani is currently leading and Republicans aren't going further away from the center, they are trying to win.

Perhaps the DNC should reach out to voters like me rather than voters like the ones on these boards?


Just a thought, but when '08 comes around and the Democrats are still not in the White House maybe THEN you will listen eh?

Thoughts?

1. How does not wanting a Bush or Clinton in office make you not welcome in the Dem party?

2. Obama is convincingly religious, and I challenge you to find a candidate who doesn't profess religious beliefs, even if they're totally faking. Is your post in general aimed at the democratic reps in office or in the people who vote dem?

3. Find a dem who says terrorism, Islamic or otherwise, isn't "a problem"

4. I agree with you on the heralds of doom, but these are to be found on both sides of the aisle. The left thinks corporations ruin america, money is the root of all evil, and that we wrongly use our military to force our worldview on cultures around the world. The nuts on the right think immigrants are going to destroy the country, that because you can't be forced to pray in school we're all going to hell, and that Katrina hit New Orleans because it's a city of sin (Mississippi was collateral damage I guess.)

I concede the dems may find a way to lose in '08, but only if there is a sea change in the current administration before election day. If things keep going this way (scandal after scandal, quagmire in iraq) until Nov 08, I don't see how the dems could lose.

 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
Originally posted by: loki8481
Face facts. Jpeyton, Senseamp, Dave, Harvey, and ilk are now "the voice" of the Democrats. People with the same mindsets as these guys are the ones making the decisions for the party.

not really.

You don't think the hard left is running the Democratic party right now?

If they aren't, then who is?

The problem you guys have is that they not only run the party, but they don't really care if they win or lose all they care about is making sure their agenda gets out.

When both parties appeal to the middle of the aisle then everything runs well. When both sides overly appeal to their party base then that's how we get way out of wack in this country.

Moveon.org, much like Yasser Arafat and people like the good Rev. Jesse Jackson, only flourish in times of strife.

Appeal to the middle voter like me and most of the rest of America, and moveon.org as well as Jerry Falwell and his crew are alot less powerful which is a very good thing.

 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
You know what's worse than a Democrat or Republican? The guy who keeps telling anyone who'll listen that he's "middle of the road" and sees all these "agendas" at work....

Those types are anything but in "middle."


 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: Deudalus
The Democrats will lose in '08 for a very simple reason. Everytime you guys lose an election your base assumes you should move further to the left.

Bush is constantly labeled as a "polarizing figure" which he undoubtedly is. But the Democrat response to this should be to move further to the middle and steal independents like myself. Instead the Democrats move further to the left.

Face facts. Jpeyton, Senseamp, Dave, Harvey, and ilk are now "the voice" of the Democrats. People with the same mindsets as these guys are the ones making the decisions for the party.

You will lose because you don't know how to win anymore.
You will lose because people like me are no longer welcome in your party.


I am:

Pro Abortion
Anti-Partial birth abortion
Pro Tax cuts for everyone
Pro war on terror
Anti-Iraq war
Pro Stem Cell research
Anti-Abortion just to get stem cells
Pro-seperation of church and state (a deist if you must know look it up) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism


The only issues I'm conservative on are:

Low taxes, permanently including the rich.
Military Spending because it fuels technology in all sectors.
Small government.


But I'm labeled as a nut for thinking things like:

Maybe our past 4 Presidents shouldn't all be named Bush or Clinton?

Maybe there is a God out there (Christian, Hindu, Muslim, or whatever) and not feel the need to call people retards for believing we aren't an accident.

Maybe Islamo Fascism is a problem in the world?

Maybe America has to act boldly in the world to keep other powers from being too aggressive to their neighbors? Maybe looking back at history shows not only that we must do this but that we are the most peaceful superpower in history.

Maybe the glass isn't always half empty? We live in the freest and richest country in the world at the height of its prosperity, how can everything be all doom and gloom?


I'm the kind of voter that you should be looking for here libs. Give me Clinton minus the scandals and I'm totally 100% on board. Give me Billary, Edwards, or Obama and you not only lost one but the Republicans gained one.

As much as you guys claim that Republicans are so "hardcore right wing evangelical conserative" you have to admit that a social Democrat in Giuliani is currently leading and Republicans aren't going further away from the center, they are trying to win.

Perhaps the DNC should reach out to voters like me rather than voters like the ones on these boards?


Just a thought, but when '08 comes around and the Democrats are still not in the White House maybe THEN you will listen eh?

Thoughts?

1. How does not wanting a Bush or Clinton in office make you not welcome in the Dem party?

2. Obama is convincingly religious, and I challenge you to find a candidate who doesn't profess religious beliefs, even if they're totally faking. Is your post in general aimed at the democratic reps in office or in the people who vote dem?

3. Find a dem who says terrorism, Islamic or otherwise, isn't "a problem"

4. I agree with you on the heralds of doom, but these are to be found on both sides of the aisle. The left thinks corporations ruin america, money is the root of all evil, and that we wrongly use our military to force our worldview on cultures around the world. The nuts on the right think immigrants are going to destroy the country, that because you can't be forced to pray in school we're all going to hell, and that Katrina hit New Orleans because it's a city of sin (Mississippi was collateral damage I guess.)
I concede the dems may find a way to lose in '08, but only if there is a sea change in the current administration before election day. If things keep going this way (scandal after scandal, quagmire in iraq) until Nov 08, I don't see how the dems could lose.

I know you think youre correct, but shit that made me laugh!
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Nah, we won't lose.

Besides Ghouliani, who is only in the public spotlight because his answer to every question begins with "9/11", American's can't even name more than 2 Republican candidates (the other being the train wreck formerly known as the McCain campaign).
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
1. How does not wanting a Bush or Clinton in office make you not welcome in the Dem party?

Well, what are my other options?

Clinton is a definite no go for me. Edwards has a trial lawyer who spends anywhere from 500-1500 for a haircut and runs around preaching wealth redistribution and poverty which is a no go for me.

Obama I'm on the fence on, but I'm not sure he can win. He's black which shouldn't matter but it does (even to alot of Democrats which many of you will refuse to believe) and he's inexperienced. But I'd pick him over the other two.

2. Obama is convincingly religious, and I challenge you to find a candidate who doesn't profess religious beliefs, even if they're totally faking. Is your post in general aimed at the democratic reps in office or in the people who vote dem?

I don't think anyone's religion should have anything to do with anything but I think religious tolerance is a problem. For example the ACLU is going after a court house just outside of New Orleans for having religious icons outside the courthouse. I think there are slightly more pressing issues to deal with especially in this area.

3. Find a dem who says terrorism, Islamic or otherwise, isn't "a problem"

There are alot that I have spoken to as well as read on this board who think its all a big phony issue. They think terrorism doesn't exist or wouldn't exist if the United States would just start riding bicycles and give all our money away which we apparently should do........

It, like global warming, has become too politicized in these times. If you don't believe me go ask random Democrats how they feel about the war on terror and whatnot. The first words out of their mouth are Iraq sucks, Bush sucks which is all true. But that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist and it also doesn't make the problem 100% our fault. We bear some blame because of our policies towards Middle Eastern oil producing countries but there is plenty of blame to go around here.

I feel that distinction needs to be made by Democratic candidates.

4. I agree with you on the heralds of doom, but these are to be found on both sides of the aisle. The left thinks corporations ruin america, money is the root of all evil, and that we wrongly use our military to force our worldview on cultures around the world. The nuts on the right think immigrants are going to destroy the country, that because you can't be forced to pray in school we're all going to hell, and that Katrina hit New Orleans because it's a city of sin (Mississippi was collateral damage I guess.)

I concede the dems may find a way to lose in '08, but only if there is a sea change in the current administration before election day. If things keep going this way (scandal after scandal, quagmire in iraq) until Nov 08, I don't see how the dems could lose.

I hear very, very few people claiming that God sent Katrina and that everyone should have to pray in schools and such.

I could name at least half a dozen people just on this forum off the top of my head that think coporations are evil, communism/socialism is the way to go etc.

I just think Democrats have an image problem and it wouldn't take much to solve this problem and win people like myself back.
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Nah, we won't lose.

Besides Ghouliani, who is only in the public spotlight because his answer to every question begins with "9/11", American's can't even name more than 2 Republican candidates (the other being the train wreck formerly known as the McCain campaign).

Who named Carter or Clinton a year before election day?

If you guessed NONE you win the grand prize.

I don't think anyone sees Edwards as a legitimate contender.

So that leaves Obama and Hillary. One of those is a black guy and the country sadly isn't ready for that on either side of aisle. He is also inexperienced. The other is a Clinton with so many skeletons in her closet its ridiculous.

Kerry was a retard, but he didn't have that many skeletons in his closet for a politician. Do you not remember how easily conservative groups "swift boated" him?

Do you not think with as much ammunition as they have on Hillary that they won't bury her ass?

If you really want to unify the Republican party run Hillary and see how badly you lose.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
I agree with the OP that the leading Dem candidates are entirely unworthy of the presidency. Fortunately for the Dems, the GOP's top candidates are equally unworthy. This is shaping up as yet another "hold your nose" campaign.
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
You know what's worse than a Democrat or Republican? The guy who keeps telling anyone who'll listen that he's "middle of the road" and sees all these "agendas" at work....

Those types are anything but in "middle."

Are you doubting my view on any of those issues? Would you like to see my voter registration card to verify that I'm registered indepedent?

I agree with the OP that the leading Dem candidates are entirely unworthy of the presidency. Fortunately for the Dems, the GOP's top candidates are equally unworthy. This is shaping up as yet another "hold your nose" campaign.

The only question is if you had to hold your nose and vote for Giuliani who is a social democrat, who has in many ways very moderate, who is pro-business, who is for lower taxes, and has had a TON of success in New York with COMPSTAT, union labor, and crime?

Or take your chances with another Clinton?
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
Originally posted by: Deudalus
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
You know what's worse than a Democrat or Republican? The guy who keeps telling anyone who'll listen that he's "middle of the road" and sees all these "agendas" at work....

Those types are anything but in "middle."

Are you doubting my view on any of those issues? Would you like to see my voter registration card to verify that I'm registered indepedent?

I don't care if you have a card that claims you're the King of Spain, that doesn't make it so - and doesn't make you any less partisan than any other left\right-winger..... So, with all this angst you have concerning the Democratic Party, maybe you shouldn't vote at all - it may help you to clear your mind of all these things you believe you see coming from them.....




 

Kwaipie

Golden Member
Nov 30, 2005
1,326
0
0
1. You immediately discount Hillary as a possible choice for the presidency, why would you completely overlook a highly qualified person for this position? Do you think that her 2 senatorial campaigns didn't uncover her "skeletons"? She's married to one of the greatest presidents of the last 40 years, I guarantee you she won't be a nationbuilder.

2. You apparently have issue with the ACLU. Going after the courthouse outside of N.O. is exactly what they should be doing. This has been shown as unconstitutional time and time again, the ACLU is just protecting the Constitution for me and you.

3. "wouldn't exist if the United States would just start riding bicycles and give all our money away", a bit melodramatic, aren't you? As a dyed in the wool liberal, I think Bush didn't provide enough troops to Afghanistan and now we're in the process of providing protection for the opium growers, meanwhile, Al Qaeda is back at full strength. Now Bush says that we should listen to the commanders on the battlefield, whereas at the beginning of Gulf II, the entire administration poo-pooed the idea of more troops, about triple the original number should have been enough.

4. Corporate lobbying has turned this once great nation into Of the Corporation, By the Corporation, For the Corporation, soon, we won't be able to afford The Corporation's goods, then what? This is the single largest threat to the country.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: Deudalus
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
You know what's worse than a Democrat or Republican? The guy who keeps telling anyone who'll listen that he's "middle of the road" and sees all these "agendas" at work....

Those types are anything but in "middle."

Are you doubting my view on any of those issues? Would you like to see my voter registration card to verify that I'm registered indepedent?

I agree with the OP that the leading Dem candidates are entirely unworthy of the presidency. Fortunately for the Dems, the GOP's top candidates are equally unworthy. This is shaping up as yet another "hold your nose" campaign.

The only question is if you had to hold your nose and vote for Giuliani who is a social democrat, who has in many ways very moderate, who is pro-business, who is for lower taxes, and has had a TON of success in New York with COMPSTAT, union labor, and crime?

Or take your chances with another Clinton?

I'm against Guiliani because I just can't spell his friggin name. But he also said there's no need to understand the reasons for terrorism, it's just imperative that we stop them. How you accomplish the latter without the former is apparently not a concern of his. Not the person I want in charge of US foreign policy during the war on terror, which happens to require understanding the reasons behind terrorism to prevent it.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Originally posted by: Deudalus
1. How does not wanting a Bush or Clinton in office make you not welcome in the Dem party?

Well, what are my other options?

Clinton is a definite no go for me. Edwards has a trial lawyer who spends anywhere from 500-1500 for a haircut and runs around preaching wealth redistribution and poverty which is a no go for me.

Obama I'm on the fence on, but I'm not sure he can win. He's black which shouldn't matter but it does (even to alot of Democrats which many of you will refuse to believe) and he's inexperienced. But I'd pick him over the other two.

2. Obama is convincingly religious, and I challenge you to find a candidate who doesn't profess religious beliefs, even if they're totally faking. Is your post in general aimed at the democratic reps in office or in the people who vote dem?

I don't think anyone's religion should have anything to do with anything but I think religious tolerance is a problem. For example the ACLU is going after a court house just outside of New Orleans for having religious icons outside the courthouse. I think there are slightly more pressing issues to deal with especially in this area.

3. Find a dem who says terrorism, Islamic or otherwise, isn't "a problem"

There are alot that I have spoken to as well as read on this board who think its all a big phony issue. They think terrorism doesn't exist or wouldn't exist if the United States would just start riding bicycles and give all our money away which we apparently should do........

It, like global warming, has become too politicized in these times. If you don't believe me go ask random Democrats how they feel about the war on terror and whatnot. The first words out of their mouth are Iraq sucks, Bush sucks which is all true. But that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist and it also doesn't make the problem 100% our fault. We bear some blame because of our policies towards Middle Eastern oil producing countries but there is plenty of blame to go around here.

I feel that distinction needs to be made by Democratic candidates.

4. I agree with you on the heralds of doom, but these are to be found on both sides of the aisle. The left thinks corporations ruin america, money is the root of all evil, and that we wrongly use our military to force our worldview on cultures around the world. The nuts on the right think immigrants are going to destroy the country, that because you can't be forced to pray in school we're all going to hell, and that Katrina hit New Orleans because it's a city of sin (Mississippi was collateral damage I guess.)

I concede the dems may find a way to lose in '08, but only if there is a sea change in the current administration before election day. If things keep going this way (scandal after scandal, quagmire in iraq) until Nov 08, I don't see how the dems could lose.

I hear very, very few people claiming that God sent Katrina and that everyone should have to pray in schools and such.

I could name at least half a dozen people just on this forum off the top of my head that think coporations are evil, communism/socialism is the way to go etc.

I just think Democrats have an image problem and it wouldn't take much to solve this problem and win people like myself back.

Based on this response, it is obvious you do not care to actually put some thought into any of this.

nice flame thread.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
Originally posted by: Deudalus
The only question is if you had to hold your nose and vote for Giuliani who is a social democrat, who has in many ways very moderate, who is pro-business, who is for lower taxes, and has had a TON of success in New York with COMPSTAT, union labor, and crime?
Or take your chances with another Clinton?

Giuliani's campaign theme so far? "9/11! 9/11! 9/11! Surrender to me or you'll get another 9/11! I'm the only one who can save you from 9/11!"
A choice between Clinton and the candidate most likely to continue the Bush legacy? As much as I dislike Hillary, as absurd as I think it is she is even considered a viable candidate, Rudy is one of the few reasons I might actually vote for her. I may agree with many of Rudy's social stands, but his stands on "Fatherland Security" and his disdain for my civil rights puts him beyond the Pale. Furthermore, his pledge on SCOTUS appointments hardy appears socially "liberal" or "democratic".
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Hillary is going to be president in 2008. The beauty of it is going to be that Republicans will be in denial all the way. There is a strong sense of entitlement to power in the GOP, especially the base which thinks it has all the answers, and crushing it will be so very satisfying. I am not going for a simple win in 2008, oh no. It has to be a humiliating defeat for Republicans, one where they put up a big fight and still fall short, and the only one who can really bring it to bear is Hillary. Her winning will not just defeat Republicans, it will emasculate them. And there is no reason not to run Hillary in 2008. In the unlikely scenario that she loses, it just means we'll have another New York liberal in the White House. Kind of like we have Arnold in CA, or until recently Bloomberg in NY. No other Republican has a chance against her. Heads liberals win, tails the conservatives lose. So why not go for it all and run Hillary?

 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Originally posted by: senseamp
Hillary is going to be president in 2008. The beauty of it is going to be that Republicans will be in denial all the way. There is a strong sense of entitlement to power in the GOP, especially the base which thinks it has all the answers, and crushing it will be so very satisfying. I am not going for a simple win in 2008, oh no. It has to be a humiliating defeat for Republicans, one where they put up a big fight and still fall short, and the only one who can really bring it to bear is Hillary. Her winning will not just defeat Republicans, it will emasculate them. And there is no reason not to run Hillary in 2008. In the unlikely scenario that she loses, it just means we'll have another New York liberal in the White House. Kind of like we have Arnold in CA, or until recently Bloomberg in NY. No other Republican has a chance against her. Heads liberals win, tails the conservatives lose. So why not go for it all and run Hillary?

Quoted & bookmarked for future humiliation :)
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: senseamp
Hillary is going to be president in 2008. The beauty of it is going to be that Republicans will be in denial all the way. There is a strong sense of entitlement to power in the GOP, especially the base which thinks it has all the answers, and crushing it will be so very satisfying. I am not going for a simple win in 2008, oh no. It has to be a humiliating defeat for Republicans, one where they put up a big fight and still fall short, and the only one who can really bring it to bear is Hillary. Her winning will not just defeat Republicans, it will emasculate them. And there is no reason not to run Hillary in 2008. In the unlikely scenario that she loses, it just means we'll have another New York liberal in the White House. Kind of like we have Arnold in CA, or until recently Bloomberg in NY. No other Republican has a chance against her. Heads liberals win, tails the conservatives lose. So why not go for it all and run Hillary?

Quoted & bookmarked for future humiliation :)

Ditto :D
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: senseamp
Hillary is going to be president in 2008. The beauty of it is going to be that Republicans will be in denial all the way. There is a strong sense of entitlement to power in the GOP, especially the base which thinks it has all the answers, and crushing it will be so very satisfying. I am not going for a simple win in 2008, oh no. It has to be a humiliating defeat for Republicans, one where they put up a big fight and still fall short, and the only one who can really bring it to bear is Hillary. Her winning will not just defeat Republicans, it will emasculate them. And there is no reason not to run Hillary in 2008. In the unlikely scenario that she loses, it just means we'll have another New York liberal in the White House. Kind of like we have Arnold in CA, or until recently Bloomberg in NY. No other Republican has a chance against her. Heads liberals win, tails the conservatives lose. So why not go for it all and run Hillary?

Quoted & bookmarked for future humiliation :)

Ditto :D

Fair is fair ;)